Jesus was a socialist -UPDATED
Here's the reason for this post. Religion and politics are, unfortunately, intertwined. Huckabee did well because of religion. Palin was brought on board for the female vote and religion. Romney won the rocky mountain states because of religion. The GOP is won or lost with that voting block. If we are to be serious, how do we here at DP help swing the Christian Right in the right direction? The numbers show that a GOP candidate can't win without them, so what can we do about that?
I learned some things here that can help me with this voting block.
- Jesus was altruistic
- Jesus has libertarian leanings
- Jesus was anti-government intervention
- Jesus was charitable in a voluntary way (not socialist or govt. aid)
- etc...
You people helped back these points with scripture and well thought out positions.
There are groups such as Catholics for Ron Paul and others that we can get involved in. How about ideas from you?
THERE IS NO WAY THAT JESUS WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NEOCON GOP! I think we can agree on that. Yet, that is where the voting block that we need to win now sits.
You can read this article
http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
almost off topic
One thing that many Ma and Pa Republicans didn't understand is that Ron Paul is not a pacifist. In talking to Republicans who think/thought they didn't like Ron Paul, I often find that they thought he was a pacifist. The campaign could have done a much better job with this message.
I think it's the Romans 12 passage that has been blamed for blind Christian
support of the State. A proper understanding of that issue is that, in our form of government, the #1 government authority is the Constitution.
Musician, Blimpographer...Hear my music: www.myspace.com/americanpirates
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Activism Training.
GIVE IT A REST! WHY RESEARCH FOR MANIPULATION OF ANY GROUP?
Billy Boy, give this topic a rest. Why spin wheels in discussions better addressed else where?
The Revolution has enough to do without this time-consuming speculation of our Lord's position regarding the government. He gave us evidence, instruction and the book to find it. Whereas I may see Him as a civil disobedient revolutionary in Roman-controlled Israel, another may not. You are getting opinions here, not facts.
Christ told us that His "Kingdom is not of this earth". He is King of that Kingdom to those of us who recognize and bow our knees to Him. We may differ in details but that is the fault of religious manipulations, also not to be discussed here.
Our focus on this website should our Revolution,
NOT - how best to MANIPULATE people, Christians or otherwise, who think differently, and
NOT - to bring up discussions, religious or otherwise, counter-productive to the advance of our Revolution . Appropriate sites should be sought for different discussions.
Frankly, Billy Boy, this wastefulness is offensive and a tactic used by those who endeavor to milk our time, sap our energy and stall our advance. I do not say this is your intent; it is however the result.
I gave you this time only to appeal to your better judgement.
Give it a rest.
Hey Moto!! Just shot you an email!
It is frustrating at times here but hang in there okay?!
Liberty! Gong! Belle!! lol!
"Thomas Jefferson is rolling in his grave fast enough to be a new source of energy independence."~ samthurston
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
motorgrader1 you might want to cool your jets here!
Wow, do you even realize this is a forum to discuss a lot of things that have many sub topics connected with many individual passions?
This topic obviously is not 'your' topic, but it does seem interesting to others.
Hey, just like free markets, free thought and free forums are places where people can speak their minds or bring up ideas. Its a refreshing environment compared with what we are up against in the outside world!
It's as simple as this,
It's as simple as this, Jesus wouldn't drop bombs on innocent people to protect the value of money
Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio
Though I was raised Catholic till I quit at 13, I still
could never support such a 'religion' or church. I will never give over my power to another human being whether a pope, king or banker, or any other human being, who for the most part is not a fully enlightened being, therefore, is flawed in so many ways being prone to multitudes of temptations. That is why I am a Libertarian in support of Dr. Paul's platform.
Thank you for De-Trollifying the Original Post.
God detested earthly Kings. Read the book of Samuel.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Ron Paul's example
is the type of politics Jesus would espouse. There are 10 commandments. The first 4 are man's duty to God and the last 6 are man's duty to man. Now, the last 6 can have man made laws because they affect someone outside yourself. But the first 4 are between you and God and should never be legislated by a man made government. That is your business. So, all of the laws of the land would be based on how it affects another human being or his stuff. Does what I am doing violate you? If so, then there should be some legal consequence for that. If it doesn't hurt anybody but me, then it is my business. God's law is one of freedom, not slavery.
Jesus' ultimate instructions were the Sermon on the Mount. But, it is not something you can legislate. He wanted service from the heart, not compulsion and the government can not force service. So, I believe Jesus would be Libertarian loosely but leaning to the right, rather than the left. He would not force people to take care of each other but he would certainly respect life from conception and personal responsibility and the free market. Sounds like Ron Paul to me.
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
Healthnut4freedom
The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22
Excellent
Very well done. We should build a website to direct people to that explains concepts such as yours.
2 of the 10
commandments deal directly with personal property: don't steal, and don't covet. Both of those imply that the person being stole from or whose property is being coveted are rightfully the owners of that property. Private property is definately at the foundation of a capitalist society, not a socialist one. And remember Jesus came to fufill the law not to abolish it, and he did this not by reforming the Government (remember Pilot washed his hands of it all), but by changing our hearts. God commands us to give out of the delight in doing so, not out of strict obedience or detached duty.
and of course...
In God's economy HE is the capital of greatest value, so valuable that all the wealth on earth cannot afford to even come near to Him. God gave us Himself by purchasing Himself for us. We can toil and strain but ultimately we are only really capable of achieving death for ourselves. However, God provided a way for us to partake in His value and experience it forever. So now, all of us who believe are forever gifted with an infinite amount of the most valuable thing that exists with the simple command to share it with joy.
Voluntary vs. Force
What sets the libertarian philosophy apart from all other political philosophies is that it's the only political philosophy that doesn't believe in imposing their beliefs on others via democracy.
Libertarians don't believe in imposing their freedom agenda onto anyone. Libertarians believe that anyone can vote for the tyranny of the Democrats, the Republicans, the socialists, etc., and they can live under that system, just as long as they limit that tyranny to themselves.
So it doesn't matter if Jesus and his friends were socialists -- as long as they don't force it onto anyone.
Jesus was a monarchist.
Jesus was a monarchist.
Ventura 2012
No, that's a poor
No, that's a poor misconception.... people think Jesus advocated giving to the poor and whatnot, which is true, but not by force- by one's own free will.... which is not socialism.
Besides, he was spoke out (though forgave) the evils of tax collectors, money changers, etc.
Jesus was a rebel, plain and simple. I don't think he can be placed into any one political ideology, and anyone who tries to do so is trying only for their own benefit and is thus being dishonest.
Jesus wanted people to be free- you can't be free in a socialistic system. Jesus wanted people to treat each other with respect (also impossible in a socialistic system- under which those with ability begin to hate those with need to whom they are enslaved).
Your description actually sounds like libertarian
but I know what you're saying here.....
Yeshua Jesus was and is King, Restorer of the forfeited Kingdom
All good comments but this is hardly the forum for discussion of our Lord.
However, He did tell us several times to "WATCH". I take that as preparedness, which is surprisingly and simply outlined in the most important topic on this website:
"NO MORE SITTING DUCKS, WE UNITE AS PATRIOT WHEELS".
It is though
We're supposed to model him, right? Given our situation, what would he do? Is the Christian Right a lost flock? Are we on a righteous path following RP? These are good ways to check ourselves and teach others.
we're not a group
anyone who takes the word of man, especially those in the pulpit, or in governmental positions..over the true and actual Word of God, is being misled.
The Word of God tells you what is needed and required, anything taken away or added to this is by man and man alone.
As a group, we have similarities, do we not?
Were the Apostles not a group? We as individuals can draw individual conclusions, but shouldn't Christians aspire to know Jesus and follow him? I, as an individual, do want to know what best aligns with him here on Earth. His will and our political system do cross paths (at least in the awake Christians) and choices need to be made. We as a group can discuss these talking points and maybe learn something along the way. In the meantime, there are millions of single-issue, Christian Right voters out there that vote the neo-con agenda every time. Are you showing these people that this isn't the moral choice? Are you converting these people Dale? Our movement needs to cut into that voting block. They are seriously misled.
No, he was not a socialist.
Socialism always has a central planner: big government. Jesus taught charitable principles, but he always allowed the poeple to govern themselves and part of their substance as each individual saw fit. Huge difference! Don't get it confussed with the carefully crafted counterfiet the adversary is pushing down our throught.
What party would he support? None of the mainstream ones, but he would have supported Ron Paul in his bid for the presidency because Ron Paul supports the Constitution in the tradition of the founders the same constituition that was was produced by men inspired by God (That's what my religion believes)
“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”
“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”
Your god is the ultimate "Central Planner".
Do what I say or burn for eternity, bitches!
--------------------------------
(Better) to be confused in the search for truth than fully confident and sound asleep in a dream of lies.
-Michael Nystrom
...let it not be said that we did nothing.
-Ron Paul
Right on allten! We are on the same page.
Jesus would be appalled by socialism/monopolies as far as his teachings go. Socialism is 'forced philanthropy' and that is being nice. Philosophically, socialism is morally, ethically wrong and just 'bad' law since it robs from one who is making every effort to take care for himself and his dependents and through its dysfunctional welfare systems 'robs' dignity and well being from those who feel they must use it. Even more despicable is the fact that once these taxes are extorted from us, very little of it goes where they say it was going to go and usually there is absolutely no transparency regarding the money
Usually the mantra for socialism blames 'free markets' due to greed as their pretext for 'the taking of our property', yet we haven't had 'free markets' in almost 100 years and prior to that time people here were enormously prosperous compared with other parts of the world.
In short. Socialism Sucks!
Actually they lived in a
Actually they lived in a commune so get Your facts straight. The people did it on their own free will too so don't call Him a communist because they could walk away at any moment. The apostle Paul said the man that doesn't work doesn't eat so I am sure they had problems with the entitlement crowd. So I please say Your sorry because Jesus was not a socialist and to be honest that is very insulting to say the least. How would You like to be called a socialist?
The only thing that Jesus insisted on
was to love one another.
All the other stuff was just built on that.
Interesting you would apply a belief system (socialism was constructed by the bankers...do your research) whose primary intent was control of the human population on a person whose only true message was to love one another.
This thread is scarier than halloween.
Unify
Sounds like socialism to me
Just read how the early followers organized themselves from the beginning. If that isn't socialism, I don't know what is
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
To Maitski. Yes they lived in communes in those days
but it was not forced. It was of their own free will because those folks were socially in agreement to live that way. It wasn't for everyone just like it wouldn't be for everyone today.
Keep in mind Jesus taught 'Divine Law' and the 'laws of exchange'. Jesus would never advocate taking from anyone for any reason. It has to be made by consent in fair exchange.
One way to live within Divine law would be to do as you will but harm none, do unto others as you would have them do to you, the golden rule. (philosophically, This is the very American foundation of our laws and rights)
Law of exchange is extremely important. The very essence of free markets and free trade is for 'people' to strike a fair price for a commodity or service. The reason gold and silver is 'real' money is because it truly extinguishes the debt or exchange, but fiat money cheats the other and the debt is never extinguished thus there is an 'unbalance'. This unbalance has been accumulating for a long time. Something has to give pretty soon and it already has in the money markets and trade in general.
The reference to 'the wrath of God' is the intelligent mechanisms of our universe that continuously seek 'balance'. God's universe is such that nothing escapes the all knowing, all seeing awareness that will seek to balance each deed according to intention.
It is mind blowing when one imagines just how out of balance we are living for the most part. Imbalance is just not a 'sustainable' way to live. The founding fathers were inspired by these notions of Jesus' teachings when creating the declaration and laws that would create a country whose potential could be a mecca or paradise for those who dream of freedom from imposition of others in all its forms!
So force is the key?
I didn't know that if you chose to live on a commune that it wasn't considered socialism. Stupid me, I thought the basic premise was from each according to their ability and to each according to thier need. So you're saying that a commune is not an example of socialism. I guess it's a matter of semantics then.
If you read the lines after what I quoted, you'll see what happened to a couple of people who tried to keep some of their belongings to themselves. They swiftly gave up the ghost. The group didn't kill them but I assume that God made an example out of them.
My basic summary of what Jesus taught about economics boils down to "Don't worry, be happy". He said to sell all your stuff and follow him. Don't worry about saving for a rainy day. Don't worry about what you will eat or what clothing you will wear. God knows what you need and will make sure you are provided for.
That's why I can't consider myself a Christian. I just don't think I can live like that.
"Me" must be pretty ignorant...
Socialism by definition.... "Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."
Now take a look at your verses...and see if you can find the glaring error.
Jesus a socialist?...
can someone please try and say something even more ignorant?...I can't believe some of the ignorance on here at times.