Do you "Support The Troops?"
Before you get your panties in a knot, know this: Ending WAR is what I am all about. I agree with nearly everything Dr. Paul has supported, but ending war is what brings me to the table. Not this war or that war, ALL war.
Also know that I have sent several family members off to fight for this nation, and one came back as pieces in a bag after his unarmored humvee hit an IED in Iraq. He may have been luckier than some of the Vets in the family.
So, now see what you think of this notion - I no longer support the troops. I love the sons and daughters of my nation, but they are just people. "The Troops" is an amorphous blob without soul or conscience, and it blindly follows orders. It swore to defend our Constitution and it has failed that MISERABLY. It is very likely to point its weapon at ME for trying to do the job IT swore to do.
I support soldiers who defend the Constitution. "The Troops" are doing no such thing and I DO NOT SUPPORT "THE TROOPS." Indeed, they are as guilty of treason as the men ordering them to commit the heinous crimes that are issued as "orders."
The sons and daughters of our nation have a PERSONAL responsibility to the oath they swore, and they are letting someone "order" them to do things they KNOW they have no moral duty to do. Indeed, no order absolves them of their personal responsibility as a human.
I support the men and women that stand with Adam Kokesh. I support the men and women who ran to Canada as conscientious objectors. I support the man who sits in prison for refusing to sew a "UN" insignia on his uniform. I support humans who think and attempt to do what is right. I do not support blind obedience, ESPECIALLY in a soldier. Carrying a weapon does not make one brave, facing down the REAL threat is what takes courage.




















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Dare I weigh in on this tripe? Na let these uneducated civilians piss all over those who take up the mantle of a "troop". Forgive them for they know not what they do.
One question though. Do you even know what the oath is or do you think you know what our oath is. I'm sure if you knew what it was then you would see that your horrible post would fall under the weight of the truth about our oath.
Maybe we can draft some sort
Maybe we can draft some sort of Appeal to the troops to uphold their oaths?
Perhaps a website explaining why what they are doing violates the constitution and get them to reflect and then make it go viral?
Other Ideas welcome.
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Get Prepared!
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
As people I do Support the troops.
I pitty the troops.
I mourn for the troops.
I do not support what our leaders decide to do with the troops.
But the men and women,
I support 200% unequivically.
One Voice, One Vision, One Love ~ Liberty.
Good Thoughts, Good Words , Good Deeds.
That is the Ron Paul rEVOLution Creed.
One Louv. ;-)..
Looking over my pay stubs...
..for the past few decades would reveal a pattern of continuing involuntary support. I'd like to STOP supporting the troops and their illegal and unconstitutional crusades, but to do so would require that I completely stop earning in the over-ground economy and restrict all my economic activities to the free (aka "black") market.
Maybe that's not such a bad idea after all, as it would also end my support for all the other depravities of FedGov or the various State Govts.
The Freedom Formula: Au + Ag + Cu + Pb
LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus
Yeah, They "Are Not" Fighting For My Freedom
It's a hard thing to say I guess. This is propaganda of, by, for our government. I don't give 'em credit for fighting for my freedom. Someone attacks us on our soil, a huge multitude would rise and fight. Give us our guns. The military is about null 'n void when it comes to protecting our freedoms, the war is at home!
Oh:
The military is being used to keep us enslaved, anymore than that is questionable. Also, during WWII the Japanese refrained about coming unto our shores cause of the population which had fire power. It wasn't the military to my understanding.
I agree fully
And that's hard to say as a former flag-waving, ribbon-wearing, pro-military guy. I would have been in the Army 13 years ago if my knee had not been too injured by sports to pass the enlisted physical. And that scares me - what would I have been ordered to do by now?
No, I don't support 'our troops'. I pity them.
I just hope the day doesn't come that I fear them.
Ignorance is no excuse, but....
Most of these kids have been seriously hoodwinked. My sister just married a guy in the army. He thinks the war in Iraq is pointless. On my way back from the rally for the republic I sat next to an air force guy who expressed the same sentiment. I asked Adam Kokesh about this very subject while I was in St. Paul. He said this: honor the warrior and not the war. Regardless if a soldier is an idiot or not, they have put their own life on the line in the name of our country. For that reason I will always show these guys respect. David Ike said something one time that I really think was profound. He said: "The generation that refuses to go to war, is the generation that will know peace." I know he talks about the reptilian thing, but I do believe that statement. I think the key to all of this is education.
I only "support" troops who serve honorably
I only "support" troops who serve honorably, morally, and lawfully. I encourage all members of the U.S. Armed Forces to recall their oath to the Constitution and disobey, as is their DUTY, immoral and unlawful orders, and resist unending, framed-up, engineered, unconstitutional and illegal "war" and occupation.
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"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
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"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
They swore an oath...
as did I, to "support and defend the Constitution". I didn't question the legality of Viet Nam, as we supposed to be there under SEATO treaty (didn't realize at the time how bogus that was). However, our modern troops have the INTERNET. If they don't know this war and occupation is illegal, then they are burying their heads in the sand. They have a moral and legal obligation to disobey unlawful orders. I nearly resigned from the ANG six months before I was eligable for retirement because I believed the first Iraq war was illegal. However, my unit didn't participate. So, while I support the troops, I condemn their illegal acts.
I think we have to take into
I think we have to take into consideration that most of the troops like most of the country are misguided and don't realize what they are doing. I am not saying that when a soldier goes over and is ordered to kill a family for no good reason he doesn't know better. I am saying in general.
Some of the troops are disobeying those orders and some of them are committing suicide to stop.
I agree that people are responsible for the jobs they choose to do. But how do we condemn those who are really brainwashed by media and eve their training etc. and really don't know what they are doing is wrong? I tend to agree with Zach that we must try and educate. Calling them all criminals will not inspire any to refuse to continue to "follow orders"
I tend to be like you and want to blast all the sheep and have at times but it does not win hearts and minds. Never the less it is frustrating, however I think coming events will accelerate our work for us.
PS why don't you be the first to reach across to your family?
my 3 cents...
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Get Prepared!
-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
separating the "soldier" from "the troops"
I made that distinction in my original post.
I can't think of a better summary than this, so I will repeat it: Oath or orders? They are clearly in conflict. And if they are engaging in behavior that undermines our Constitution, what would you have me call them? My heart BREAKS for these people. The NWO took a love of country and twisted it into something horrible. But I cannot fix that, only they can fix that. And I do them a disservice by pretending not to notice that they are destroying our Constitution. They must be held to the standard of HUMANS, not allowed to hide behind the faceless label of "the troops."
And I do not "reach across" because I was specifically asked to "stop harassing" people with my talk of "love revolutions" and such. I have since learned there are rather suspicious connections in my family that make me just as happy to keep my distance, too.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
I am not saying we pretend
I am not saying we pretend not to notice, I am saying we let them know why they are violating it by explaining it hoping to cause them some deeper reflection and perhaps wake up.. But if we just get in their face and call them criminals all it will do is turn them away and provide them excuse to remain in denial.
All I am saying is in order to give them a chance to understand we have to approach it correctly. If we rant and rave at them we miss the chance to wake up those who will wake up? They are there doing what they do anyway and will continue. Our best chance to wake as many as possible is to respectfully and strategically educate them and appeal to any sense of morality and patriotism they may still have...
Believe me I feel much as you do and am pretty fed up with things, and people, and even this approach, however I know it is our best chance bring more on board.
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Get Prepared!
-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
I never suggested getting in anyone's face
Or ranting or raving at them. I simply encouraged people to examine a "feel good" cliche that we have been bantying about. Knowing what is in our hearts accurately will help us communicate more effectively, I would hope.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
So long as the men and women
So long as the men and women of the armed forces identify with the word "troops", I support them, though I want to see them safely home and these endless foreign wars over. Supporting troops and educating them, as well as being educated by them, are not mutually exclusive.
Pat
BOHICA!!
Pat
BOHICA!!
Support the Troops
By informing them - when I first saw Ron Paul's 'stop dreaming" video it didnt take long for me to decide that the only thing I could really do in support of my country, was to stop supporting her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyxhD20IRjs
The guys I served with were human like everyone else - no more - no less - Dont throw them under the bus - lift them up and show them a better way.
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
I did not throw them, they followed orders to jump there
They took an OATH to defend the Constitution, they follow orders to defile the Constitution.
I know there are many fine people who serve in the Armed Forces. They took an oath. The Constitution is in grave peril, where are they? (The incredibly brave exceptions are often heralded at this forum.)
They threw the Constitution under the bus. It was the foundation upon which they stood, and they failed to take that into account when they threw it under the bus. Do not blame me if they come out of it with tire tracks.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Being a former Marine
and a Gulf War veteran. I support our troops, they should be brought home from harm. Our troops should be used only to defend our land and sovereignty, not fighting for oil and the military Industrial complex.
Semper Fi Jarhead
Like Smedly said, "I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket."
http://rationalrevolution0.tripod.com/war/major_general_smed...
this is a very divisive issue. maybe not here but outside
first my condolence to you paul4won. my heart goes to you. saddened me to know you lost a son already. i believe that every individual is responsible for hi actions. therefore a soldier or a cop or any service man who follows orders that are immoral should not follow them. that is what the Nazi SS & gestapo officers used to say in the Nuremberg trials
vee ver just foloving orderz
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Action is what defines men
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Action is what defines men
NOT my son, thankfully and thank you
My cousin's son, the same age as my son. My son and I had a handful of screaming matches about whether or not he should join the military. I managed to convince him killing for money is not moral, no matter the uniform.
My cousin and I no longer speak, he believes his son died a hero (and I agree) but I also believe he died on a fool's errand, and his father cannot accept that. I understand, and we had long ago drifted apart - we were childhood playmates was all. Still, there is now this defined "thing" between us, and it is sad - we simply do not speak. My family was neatly divided in two the day Tristan died, and none have dared reach across to the other side.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
War is a Racket (book)
by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient
Major General Smedley D. Butler - USMC Retired
Butler joined the Marines in 1898 and saw action all over the world, winning two Medals of Honor, but he is remembered not so much for his military exploits as for his apostasy during his latter years. A statement he made in 1935 sums up the drastic turnabout: "I spent 33 years in the Corps, and spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business." He also said he had been a racketeer for capitalism who "helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street." Schmidt, a lecturer in history at the University of Hong Kong, traces Butler's stormy career: his various expeditionary campaigns, his central role in internal Marine Corps politics during the 1920s and his bizarre but effective war on crime and vice in Philadelphia. As pure biography, "Maverick Marine" (book) is a colorful story about a swashbuckling establishment-shaker. Schmidt's book is particularly valuable, however, for the insights it provides into Yankee imperialism and its racist undertones.
On Line - War is a Racket, book (short read)
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
This is prejudice thinking! The "troops" gave more money to RP's
campaign than all other candidates combined. Lumping them all as criminals, is like saying all black people are criminals. I took a call from an Army recruiter last week, and after some discussion, he revealed he voted for Ron Paul. Nuff said.
Schnecksville, Lehigh County, Pennsylvania
The total percentage of troops who contrributed is miniscule
compared to the overall number of soldiers. It is far more erroneous thinking to lump them all as "heroes" and single out the ones who are not doing their job. They have an oath, most of them are doing NOTHING do defend that oath. They cover their dereliction of duty with "we just follow orders." Well, it is time for them to choose - oath or orders?
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Good stuff
Well said Paul4One,
I would support them if they turned the muzzles towards the enemies of the constitution. The assholes in the Whitehouse and the Pentagon.
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Ron Paul 2012 - Not just for America, for the World!
War is a Racket
From two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler-- who in the 1930s said, "War is a Racket"-- to the current crop, they sure know how to tell it like it is and don't sweat the fall out.
Hard to imagine there is a long list of Marine Corps' anti-war heroes, such as Daniel Ellsberg, leaker of the Pentagon Papers, or David Shoup, also a Medal of Honor winner, who resigned as Commander of the Marine Corps in 1963 over his disagreements with the President about our action in Vietnam. Only retired Marine Gen.David Shoup had the guts to tell Congress that Vietnam was a bad war and we shouldn't be there.Shoup said in a famous '60s anti-war speech:
I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody dollar-crooked fingers out of the businesses of nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they (would) arrive at a solution of their own that they design(ed) and want(ed). Not one crammed down their throat by Americans.
The leading Marine Corps General in the First Gulf War, Anthony Zinni, started campaigning against a subsequent invasion of Iraq during the Clinton Administration and continues to give speeches critical of our ongoing disaster in that country.
Nazi general Goehring said, ˜Of course the people don't want war, but it is the leaders who make the decisions and the people can always be made to do their bidding. Just tell them they are under attack and accuse the peacemakers of lack of patriotism and putting the country at risk."
I wish I could put this in email form and send it out
I wish I could send this to military people that I know. It is very short and to the point, very well written. Do you have a email version?
copy
and paste
... with the originator's permission.
permission granted
so grateful for the idea, I feel silly even saying it. Please, use it if you can!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
What a brilliant idea!
Copy and Paste.....
Hey! It works!!!!
LOL
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Ron Paul 2012 - Not just for America, for the World!
Hey Gnat !
Wazzup ?