A discussion I had with some friends today.
This morning I read the post here entitled "Blowback is nothing new" and decided to write a short snippet about it on my myspace blog.
Here's the blog, and comments from a couple of my friends.
What do you guys think I can do to reach them? I feel like if I can't spread the message to my closest friends then how can I expect a stranger to listen....
Caution -- Some foul language --
Jeremiah Galli
UPDATE-
Thanks for all the kind words folks. I do truly love and respect my friends, though apparently we have differences in politics. This experience has opened my eyes to the fact that many people think we are as free as we're going to get, and that frightens me slightly. I will continue stumping for Ron Paul, but this has made me think twice before discussing it with those I truly care for as it seems to be a very divisive issue.
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The Grievances of our Forefathers
Our founding fathers enumerated many grievances against their King George over 200 years ago. Many of these items may be held in common with a group of people today, though they live in places such as Iraq.
These are actual quotations from the Declaration of Independence.
Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
What other 'King' George has done all of these things, to the people of his own land as well as those people whose land we occupy with our military? Imagine what we would do if the Parliament of Iraq sent us such a document with clearly stated grievances.
The Founding Fathers would be ashamed. The EXACT reasons we listed for declaring our independence have been ignored as of late. The time for a return to our senses has come.
All political opinions aside, there are things that all reasonable people should stand up and declare as wrong! War is not left or right, death is not left or right, occupation is not left or right, the indefinite detention of American Citizens is not left or right, spying on American Citizens is not left or right, all of these things are outright WRONG!
Please, open your eyes, do a little reading, and you will see that we are less free than our fathers. Less free to associate with whom we please. Less free to trade with whom we please. Less free to enjoy all the fruits of our labor. Will you allow our children to say the same thing, or will they say that they are freer because of us?
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Comment 1 -- from Nicole -- a very close friend whose opinion I value.
wow... yes lets put all the force feed political jargon aside... and talk about the fact that you believe that AMERICANS are "less free" than our slave owning , womanizing, and all together WHITE founding fathers. do you know how hard that is for me to read as a WOMAN of COLOR??? maybe you should open your eyes to something more than the bandwagon you so easily hoped on. i respect your opinions man, but that's a little much. if you really want a revolution look at the FACT that for the first time in OUR country's history we actually have a WOMAN and a man of COLOR running for president, not to say i even give a fuck about Barack or Hillary, cause in my humbled opinion it will always be a choice of the lesser of two evils until we actually have a different party in office beside right or left... now that might actually be a revolution.
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Response 1 from me
The fact that I believe we are less free today does not justify the things you list.
I agree that it is horrible that it has taken 220+ years for this country to have accepted the fact that ANYONE can be it's leader, man, woman, black, white, or any other. People have had to fight for Women's Rights, Gay Rights, Civil Rights, and are still fighting. It has taken horrible abuses of the rights of these groups of people for them to finally stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
When will it become bad enough for EVERYONE to stand up? Where do we draw the line?
I agree that the white founding fathers were not the pillars of goodness they are made out to be, even by me. What I'm trying to impress upon everyone is that they drew the line in the sand. They stood up to tyranny in their time.
That doesn't mean they were right about everything. They slaughtered the native peoples of this land and stole it from underneath them. They imported people from another land to be enslaved, dooming their children and their children's children to the same fate. They discounted the value of women as equals. If they had been more open, who knows what the Founding 'Fathers' would have looked like. Imagine all the great thinkers potentially excluded just by the sheer numbers of people who were treated as second class citizens.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from their mistakes, and from the idea they left us of Liberty and Justice for ALL. In their time they excluded too many people from that idea. The true values of Liberty and Justice do not see color, gender, class, creed, religion or any other qualifier. They are universal and inalienable.
Today, many great strides have been made in the cause of Liberty and Justice for All, but they are being whittled away every day.
The government should not be able to lock me up and deny me trial. The government should not be able to listen to my phone calls and read my private e-mails. The government should not forcibly take money from my paycheck and use it to buy bombs to blow up a country that didn't attack us. The government should not tell me who I may associate with. The government should not be able to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body.
All these things are true whether you are black, white, upside-down-faced, tall, short, fat, old or young.
Will it be said that we are all equal when none are free?
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Comment 2 -- from Nicole
YES! i totally agree with you on not wanting to live in a police state, and i'm totally anti- occupation too. i'm there with you on protecting our liberties and blah blah blah, but what i'm saying is RP is not going to build Rome in 1 day let alone 8 years if even given that. NO ONE CAN. he is just a man (with too much publicity if you ask me....) who you have never met in person, or known privately. what qualifies him to be this country's "savior" besides his and other fanatic's talk which is way cheap. and just so you know it sound like you've been listening to too much Sean Hannity ( please say no!) with all that :
"... The government should not tell me who I may associate with. The government should not be able to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body." . come on dude that's total tripe. who's been telling you who YOU can and cant associate with or what YOU can and cant put in your body as of now....
regardless of all shit that has happened with this country in the last 15-30 years politically, we are still one of the freest societies today. can you really deny that, if so take a trip to a REAL dictatorship, go hang out with Kim Jong-il or take a trip to Rwanda and then tell me how you feel about your freedoms as an American.
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Response 2 from me
Ron Paul can't build Rome in a day. Ron Paul IS just a man.
What Ron Paul can fix are many of the bad decisions made in recent times. He can move the troops where he pleases. He can end our occupation of Iraq, Germany, Korea, Japan, and Great Britain. Anti-occupation, right? He can order the CIA and FBI to stop spying on American Citizens, and he can order the closing of our 'secret' prisons. Anti Police State, right?
And yes, you're right, the 'man' has yet to interfere with me personally. My point is that the government is actively seeking those powers over us, wishing to gain more control. They want to regulate EVERYTHING, 'to protect us', so it is only a matter of time.
Doesn't someone have to take the first brick out of the wall? Or do we stand idly by and allow it to grow bigger?
I ask again, where do we draw the line?
Must it become so bad as to be a REAL dictatorship? Must we be subjected to the horrors of poverty, imprisonment, and famine as those from North Korea? Must we be faced with genocide, as in Rwanda? Must we experience these things first hand before we long for true freedom?
America cannot be rebuilt in a day, or even 8 years, you're right. It has been on a slippery slope for way too long, and now it's going to be a difficult climb up, but I would rather be faced with a difficult climb up than a smooth ride down.
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Comment 3 -- from Brian -- also a close friend whose opinion I value.
Amen Nicole!!!
Galli, you have some valid reasons to be concerned with the government's ability to police such as they could. But unless you and I start getting harrassed for the 'innocent' illegal things we do on a daily basis then I am not worried.
Yes they might be invading our freedoms....invading our privacy. I don't care. Until they come after me for all the oral sex i have, participating in the illegal drugs, ect, ect; Once they do, i will have an issue. So far the only instances on invasion on provay have been to protect the greater good of the major parts of society.
You are completely free to do what ever you wanted....you may not have the money, but you are allowed to leave this country any time. You are entitled to post on here and say any thing you want. As nicole pointed out, that doesn't happen in most parts of the world.
Our forefathers revolted against tyranny. Whatever your stance on why our military is in IRAQ, you cannot say we are tyrrants there. I know close friends who drive the streets of IRAQ with bullets zipping by their head. Argue later why we are there, but by NO MEANS are we parading around there as tyrrants.
When you become the BIG BOY on the block, and other bullies from other neighborhoods start fucking around and picking on other kids, and the occasional rock comes flying into your BBQ.....Do you mean to tell me you will continually stand by idly?? To quote the screen play writers of SpiderMan, "With much power comes great responsibility."
The moment our country decided to drop two A-Bombs on another attacking country, we declared to the world, for history to count, that we are the top dog. And that has its issues. Good and Bad. Look at how much our country has prospered since then. We have certain duties now to the rest of the world.
The question is whether or not we elect some one new to office that capable of both domestic AND international affiars. I fear the day we have a leader that pulls in ALL troops, and pays attention to only the people with our lands. For whe our presence leaves the world, what type of power will rise the fastest to replace us......not a domocratic, peaceful power. Notice how long it took us to rise to world power, about 180 years.
How long did it take Hitler?? Sadam?? Kim?? BinLaden?? You see it takes a few hundred years for a democracy to justly grow to power, however it takes only the one lifetime of a tyrrant dictator to murder, slaughter and terrorize the world over and spread fear of themselves to the far reaches of the globe.
I am not at all disagreeing with you Galli, infact I applaud you. Because even if you fail to convince some of us about RP, you are atleast getting us to pay attention to it, respond to it.
Big Ups To You!!! Keep the power of the people alive by what your are doing!!!
Here's a thought: take a
Here's a thought: take a lesson from *choking back the gag reflex as I type this* Bill Clinton in 1992. "It's the economy, Stupid". Regardless of whether anyone feels we should or shouldn't be in Iraq, the fact is we can't afford it. The dollar is in freefall right now. You can google for tons of MSM articles to back that up. We are borrowing billions per day from the Chinese to pay for this war. Social Security and Medicare will be broke in just 13 years. *THAT* should get any liberal's attention. Our real national debt when those entitlements are included is over $50 trillion!!! That is over $175,000 for each of us. When a family with limited income is facing mounting debt, what do they do? They cut out all unnecessary spending and batten down the hatches. It is simple common sense. Even for the most ardent Iraq war supporter, the fact is we can't afford it. And who is the only candidate even talking about the problem, let alone has a solution?
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having -V
Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. -Ron Paul 7/10/03
be pragmatic
a very good argument for recruiting liberals:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_mej_071115_ron_...
remember: you don't need to have people agree with you on everything. if the analogy between declaration of independence and today's grievances against the US is not working then drop it. if your fears about civil liberties are not shared then drop it. no need to be upset of others don't buy every detail of your story (i think that there are even ron paul supporters who would question your analogy). all you need is for them to think that ron paul is the best candidate out there and then vote for him.
also, talking about the end of the world, the last chance to be saved, the police state etc turns off a lot of people. as your friends pointed out, they don't see the situation in such dark terms. and the fact is that it is not as dark - it is about trend, not about where we are right now.
i think this is evidence of
i think this is evidence of just how angry and disillusioned people are about politics. Don't get caught up in defending yourself or dr. paul. your friends are only voicing their own issues... it has nothing to do with you or the congressman. just feel sympathy for your friends' frustrations and quietly keep pointing back to the good doctor. they don't realize it, but ron is the sweet balm to soothe their souls.
WE are Ron Paul
Ron Paul is one man.
But it was not one man who raised 4 million in one day - from 10,000 existing supporters but 20,000 new ones.
The founders were hypocrites, but at least not frauds. Jefferson - yes the slaveowner - wanted to add slavery to the complaints against the King.
Hypocrisy is the compliment vice pays to virtue.
Would that we were governed by hypocrites with souls for the last two decades.
The other candidates are enough to repress liberty. Ron Paul will simply get out of the way and let us do the rest. Even Frodo in Lord of the Rings couldn't bring himself to destroy the ring. But Ron Paul has been denying the trappings of power, the voices of the crowd, for 30 years.
But let me ask your friend -
She prefers a state where she can be locked if if she doesn't show her RealID, just as long as men and women are locked up, gays and straights are locked up, blacks and whites are locked up? That everyone is subject to a battery by the TSA if they want to travel by plane? That the drug police will make sure every man and woman equally are monitored in taking their mental health medication? That the only thing wrong with Hitler was he discriminated against Jews - but didn't he kill jewish men and jewish women equally? Would a Josette Stalin be ok as long as they imprisoned and tortured in an egalitarian manner?
A small government cannot use its tyrannical power to discriminate. A large government will be.
Even back then the smaller Federal Government was tyrannical with the Fugitive Slave act and Dredd Scott decision. They overrode the states that didn't want to recognize slavery. And it was a matter of controversy and Ron Paul would have been on the side of the Abolitionists, the Underground RailRoad (which would be above ground and probably would have big signs on the northern shore of the Ohio), and Dredd Scott (If you don't want your slave freed, leave him in a slave state).
To your other friend, the British didn't think of themselves as tyrants either, even when raiding American houses and shooting at Americans and complaining they would use terrorist tactics like shooting with a rifle behind a tree instead of coming on a street. But why are they being shot at - and calling in bombs to blow up whatever building they think the shots came from?
Do not ask the occupiers if they think they are tyrants, ask those whom they are "helping and protecting".
And if you wait until your particular desires land you in jail, there will be no one left to help you. It won't be announced in the USA Today "The President will declare martial law next week". Yet it is already happening. A little more every day. It hasn't hit you yet. Or maybe it has. How much is gasoline costing you? How much does it cost you to eat? Know anyone who is being foreclosed from their sub-prime mortgage?
Britian also prospered for a time with their empire. And look at them now. They thought it was their duty to be condescending patrons to India, Africa, and parts of Asia.
You cheer empire - we do have the Glory that was Rome, but it is the Rome of Nero and Caligula. In the middle of last century, Germany also wanted an empire, so voted in powers to the chancellor.
And it can happen very quickly. I would suggest BOTH your friends read Naomi Wolf's "Letter to a young Patriot", or at least view the YouTube video linked from an article here.
And Ron Paul DOES want to interact with the rest of the world - with trade, not bullets. Like we do with the nuclear armed, well populated nation of China. Why aren't you afraid of them to the point we need our troops in their streets? Also consider India. And the Islamic and Fascist Pakistan or don't you do news?
A few years after that document we quoted was penned, there was another revolution over in France. They stormed the bastille. They shouted "Liberty, equality, fraternity". Then came the reign of terror. And it wasn't the Ottoman Turkish Islamofascists who terrorized and started chopping off heads.
When he won the revolution, the continental army wanted to make George Washington King - they hadn't been paid and had sacrificed much. Instead this highest of Top Dogs with a large, well trained group of armed men took his sword and turned it into the continental congress. The King of England even said he was a far better man than I. Later he would become president - and instead of dying in office clasping power to the end, he left after his second term.
STEPHANOPOULIS
I WANT TO SEE THAT A$@hOLES FACE WHEN WE GET 10 MILLION
ON DEC 16
if we dont smash the israel lobby the israel lobby will smash us
You know Stephanopoulis is a CFR member
ah, ha!
It is his duty as a member in good standing
to discourage Dr. Paul.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807/CFRClinton.html
Simple, don't argue
I've had great success turning people on to Ron Paul. I never have to resort to long winded arguments. Arguments never work. Even after you supposedly "win" the argument, the defeated person subconsciously resents you and your ideas.
I show them the videos. I send them his speeches. If someone finds something they don't like, I respond with Dr. Paul's words, not my own. If the persist, I drop it and move on. If it's a friend or family member I may bring it up in a couple weeks, maybe a month later. I'll drop a new video on them or some new info. But I never get into arguments. They're a waste of my time and theirs.
Often I'll use humor, sometimes self deprecating, sometimes precocious. Here's a copy of the email I've been sending out to everyone I know, trying to get them interested in the Tea Party '07:
Subject Line: ever heard of this guy?
It's a numbers game. If you cold call 225 people as a salesman, you'll get 1 lead. That's average. If you cold call 225 with a quality product and a good pitch, you'll get 4. Rates for friends and family are much higher but the success ratio is the same. Good salesmen and women know that wasting their time arguing with someone means less calls, and less sales.
Dr. Paul is a quality product. He sells himself.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
David Burns
Simi Valley, CA
sooo
are you an accountant if RP is putting you out of a job?
"Good morning, Mr. Greenspan. I understand that you did not take my friendly advice last fall. I thought maybe you should look for other employment, but I see you have kept your job."
bump
bump
Send them this video
Spread the Anger, email this around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ
The ending is funny
Impeachment trials in the Senate, part of the Congress that gave up their duty to take responsibility for discussing and declaring the war. I find it ironic.
John Hay once wrote...
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread. I think I'll let it stand, with the addition of the above quote for perspective.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Get active NOW to put Ron in the general election. ronpaul.meetup.com
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Close those Italics!
close those italics!
JG
--------
If you believe in real freedom, you must accept the risks that come
with it, and there are many. The same rights essential for a free
people can and often are abused by a few. The passion of every
American should be to preserve our liberty at any cost
Jeremiah Galli
------------------
If you believe in real freedom, you must accept the risks that come
with it, and there are many. The same rights essential for a free
people can and often are abused by a few.
not my italics, but OK...
Italics
off!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Get active NOW to put Ron in the general election. ronpaul.meetup.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Show them Zeitgeist: the fed
This movie has been soooo effective in turning people on to Ron Paul. The problem with turning people on to RP is that they think they know what's going on. Zeitgeist shows them how little they really know. Take the Red pill!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ
It's the economy...
Since they aren't too concerned with tyranny, hit 'em with the economic angle.
THAT effects everyone. Ask them how they like the price of gas.
The price of gas hasn't gone up, the dollar has gone down!
Do they like Illegal Aliens looting the country?
They seem big on defense, would they like the border(s) secured?
I sometimes have the same problem.
Even with my own family. However my 78 year old Republican dad is coming around. If only because Rudy is pro-choice.
I would suggest that you plug away at them. You are being very respectful of their feelings as you should, but maybe you should encourage them by joking. "Isn't this great? Finally some real heartfelt political discussion" Make sure you remind them that you "are trying to bring them on board, and not just argue with them" at some point. I guess what I am trying to say is that you need to try to close the deal on them. They want to vote for Dr. Paul...You know they do! Who wouldn't? Neither of them believe that Rudy or Hillary or Obama will solve our problems. Just don't make it about the argument forever and make it more about the closing of the sale. You need to remember that you are on the side of the right argument. "ABC ALWAYS BE CLOSING"
Also, send them to the Ron Paul Library.
At some point you may realize that they don't vote, or don't vote in the primaries, so maybe you should cut them loose when you see that. I mean the last thing I want from my friends is lip service that they will vote in the primary and they lie to me.
And you might bring up...
Geraldine Ferraro and Collin Powell. Dick Morris believed Collin Powell was the only Republican that could have beat Bill Clinton in '96. In fact, when Powell decided not to run, Morris immediately congratulated Clinton on retaining the presidency.
http://www.jimmyliberty.com loves Ron Paul
Is Nicole a property owner?
People who didn't own property couldn't vote in the beginning either. I didn't want her to only have trendy things to gripe about.
http://www.jimmyliberty.com loves Ron Paul
Life is pretty good in this
Life is pretty good in this country for most people. This prevents them from seeing the big picture. Most refuse to envision an alternative to the status quo. Unfortunately, Ron Paul is not for everyone. He is only for those that understand the true nature of freedom and desire liberty. Hopefully there are enough of us.
I feel you man
I also recently felt more encouraged to share about Paul after the money bomb, therefore I could argue he did have a chance. I falsely assume that if people knew he had a chance that they would love him as much as I do. Unfortunately I was also disappointed in my friends who said he was nuts, or too radical, etc, etc. I thought some of them would instantly see how much sense he makes. I guess not everyone could handle the truth.
Rome wasn't built in a day - but neither were dictatorships
Not to sound too arrogant, but your typical Ron Paul supporter can see more than 1 move ahead. I understand the comfort of saying, "Well, I don't feel oppressed today, so everything must be OK!" Being able to look past today, however, is a state of Nirvana that only people of principle can appreciate. I am so proud to be a Ron Paul supporter because I know the company I keep here consists of the most open-minded and forward-thinking individuals in today's political discourse.
And the sad part is most RP supporters aren't in it for purely selfish gain (although keeping more of my paycheck would be nice). I truly sympathize with those people who ARE being oppressed at the hands of the state. It is my EMPATHY that allows me to say that I wouldn't like it if the tables were turned on me. I truly believe a freer society is better for everyone. I'm not willing to accept anyone's oppression, let alone any I might suffer. No one gives us credit for that.
But assume that we only selfishly care about the issues that affect us. Why wait until it comes to bite us in the ass? Isn't an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure? Those who say "it'll never happen to us" don't seem to realize that history has proven it to us time and again.
Your friend asks, "How long did it take for Hitler, etc., etc." None of those evil people could've perpetrated the things they did without significant support from other people - even if it was just an unwillingness to step up and fight. I'd bet a lot of people said "Well, I'M not going to be sent to a concentration camp, so no need to rock the boat." Not exactly an epitome of courage, in my opinion. But that complacency (and oftentimes support) developed over time, one step at a time, just like an ocean creates the beach. Hitler himself didn't cause the atrocities of WW2 - he required the anti-jewish sentiment that had brewed for centuries before.
Unfortunately, most people don't notice (care about?) these small changes and end up later wondering, "How'd we get here!?" True visionaries (and Patriots, I might add) fight against EVERY step that can lead to oppression. Because we understand how slippery that slope really is.
To be able to do so requires principle, no hypocrisy, foresight, and empathy. These are the qualities that define a true Ron Paul supporter.
Thank you
Thanks for all the feedback guys, but please remember that these people are still and will be for the foreseeable future my friends.
Let's keep it positive.
JG
Jeremiah Galli
------------------
If you believe in real freedom, you must accept the risks that come
with it, and there are many. The same rights essential for a free
people can and often are abused by a few.
With friends like that...
Just kidding. You will not be able to change everyone's mind and sometimes friends and relatives can be the hardest of them all.
The lady friend is stuck in the past and your other friend is, well, ignorant. He speaks of empire as if it were something responsible and sustainable for the good of the planet. Quite simply, the murder, terror and slaughter of which he writes is being done largely by the United States. And what constitutes great responsibility? Some would say it is NOT responsible to possess such fatal conceit as to presume the outcome of preemptive war and nation building.
As for recognizing his freedoms being lost? Good luck there. When WWII Germany fell and American reporters asked the German citizenry (what was left of them) how they could have allowed it all to happen,
their reply was usually the same: "We thought we were free."
Herein lies the task of Ron Paul and his supporters. Many in the U.S. believe they are free and, sadly, believe that they are being represented. When they finally have unmitigated proof to the contrary, it will be too late.
4S
And then...they came for me...
" In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up. "
It's important to see the knife before it gets to your throat.
Suck it up...
I think your friend Nicole just needs to suck it up and grow a spine for something she believes in. She seems to have some agression built up as evidenced by her Hillary/Obama reference and then quick abandonment of that argument, saying that she doesn't care about either one anyway. If she doesn't care then don't say anything. You care about RP and perhpas she is jealous that you have found a certain level of enlightenment and satisfaction.
A few simple things to point out:
-Ron Paul is not a traditional "right" or "left" person... Maybe he is someone she can get into.
-She pulled the race AND gender card in the same sentence. Frankly when someone does that to me, I know it will take a lot more explaining than I have patience for to even make a slight difference in their psyche. Ron Paul doesn't look at people based on God-given characteristics, he looks at their principles and philosophies. That is a good place to start with someone who can't look beyond obvious differences.
Hooray that she is a "WOMAN of COLOR"... Don't know what that has to do with anything. The true irony, and many are not capable of realizing it, is that liberals are the first to say "equality for all races, and gender", etc... Yet they are the first to point out some one's differences. What does the fact that Obama or Hillary are where they are, given their color and gender respectively, have to do with anything? Their philosophies are what I don't like. I could care less what they look like... seemingly Nicole is more wrapped up in that stuff than you are. good luck. I have little tolerance for ignorance, mostly because society has tried to force me to be tolerant all my life, instead of letting me form my own opinions.
"Make fun buddy..." - Ron Paul
Your Friend Nicole Can Not Be Pleased
She only believes in herself and what she thinks and feels.
She states, "i'm there with you on protecting our liberties and blah blah blah." Her presentation of this opinion is rather arrogant and irresponsible due to the fact that we are discussing our ever diminishing freedoms. Has she researched The Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, John Warner Defense Bill, Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007, The Real ID Act, Freedom Of Speech Zones, No-Fly Lists, George Bush's and Bill Clinton's signing statements and executive orders? They may not effect you today, but they most certainly will effect you and your loved ones tomorrow. .
To start building Rome they had to start with the first brick.
She smugly tells you that you can not use other people's writings and ideas to prove your points. How is this a reasonable mandate? If we listened to her how would college kids write papers, professors teach lessons, writers create literature, or clergy men give sermons?
Why do you have to meet someone in person or know them privately to champion their beliefs. I've never met Medgar Evers, Ghandi, Dr. King, Rosa Parks, Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandela, JFK, and Malcolm X but I sure as hell loved the things they accomplished and the ideas they gave to the world.
What qualifies Dr. Paul is everything he stands for and the fact that he has a thirty year record of impeccability. Has she read anything about the man? Has she watched any of his speeches? Has she taken a gander at any of the books he has written?
I'm sorry did I miss something? What in the world does Sean Hannity have to do with Ron Paul?
"The government should not be able to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body." . come on dude that's total tripe" Once again does Nicole have any idea about the War On Drugs or how the FDA is attempting to make vitamins fall under the pharmaceutical companies jurisdiction? Yes, that's right. You want Vitamin C? Can I see a prescription for that? How about the fact that the FDA did not permit a highly effective cancer treatment that was helping patients go into full remission. If Nicole wants more examples of what the government forbids American citizens to put into their own bodies I suggest she does about 10 minutes of research.
We may be one of the more freer countries as of now comparatively, but if we lived under The Constitution the Founders created and later generations amended to allow civil rights and women's rights we would be hands down the most free.
It is not about right and left anymore Nicole.
Around a million innocent civilians in Iraq have died for you and for me according to Bush, Clinton, Obama, Guiliani, Etc., Etc.
We have a responsibility to do something about it and to do our best to make sure it never happens again.
Ron Paul is the only viable candidate willing to stand up and say enough is enough.
Your friend can stay inside her "cynical, I know best no one is going to effect me cocoon" for only so long until the real world comes poking about and makes her understand the reality of America today.
Until they come after me...
I think there's alot of this sentiment out there to go around. Somebody was just mentioning people behaving in their self-interest on another post. I'm not feeling the pain, so why take the medicine? I do not have your friend's confidence that they'll never come for me. Reading legislation and attempted legislation of the last few years ought to be enough. Try reminding them of the "free speech" zones at last presidential elections--I suspect we'll get a refresher of those soon.
Even the most passionate among us would probably not argue this. But ask the lion in the big cage if he feels freer than the lion in the small cage. We of course don't live in physical cages, but we live in a form of servitude nonetheless. How many among us would willingly pay all of the taxes that are levied against us if we had the choice? I mean if they were out there in the open--all the buried taxes (gas is a good example), tariffs, inflation, employer-paid taxes, etc.
Many have found comfortable coexistence with their servitude--at least partly because it is not painfully obvious to them. Eventually it will be unless something changes. Fiat currencies return to their intrinsic value ($0). Empires crumble. It's just a question of when and how, but not if.
Ultimately you may not be able to sway these folks. They seem to respect you and you respect them. Debating them endlessly probably just strains your friendship. Let them know you're open to discuss the subject anytime, but you're not going to force your way of thinking on them. It's what sets those of us that believe in liberty apart from everyone else.
Best wishes.
MattinGA
Same problem
Don't feel bad I had the same problem. In fact my friend doesn't even want to discuss politics. But today I needed to go pick up some Ron Paul supplies and it was a nice day and I asked her if she would want to ride along. I gave up on her so this was not a set-up. We got there and two Ron Paul supporters were there and I was talking to them for just a few minutes. When we left she said did you see Ron Paul on Jay Leno and I said yes.
I also told her that he had raised 4.2 million dollars in one day. I told her just a couple other things but did not push. I think what you have to do is back off for a little bit. I saw some Youtube videos that were by people of color for Dr. Paul and they were really good. Maybe you could look for them and show her. Like some people are saying this is not a left or right problem in the country. This is a top down problem and Ron Paul is trying to help the people on the bottom us. Don't let this come between your friendship the pressure can do that. As Dr. Paul gets more money and his message spreads your friend my or my not come around.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Yes, look at how much we've prospered!
We're only 7-8 TRILLION dollars in debt, and still handing out money!
To be honest, I would say that from what I see on the face of it, your friends have 0 respect for our Constitution - so I have no respect for them.
Gotta love the reasoning from Brian that since we've overextended ourselves for so long, we're obligated to continue.
While America is, in my opinion, still the best country in the world to live in...that is quickly changing. And not for the better. The sooner people like your friends realize this, the better off we'll be.
Sorry, I have no advice for you though. Just ranting.