Ron Paul in 4th Place at 8% in NH, Tied With McCain in Iowa
Submitted by antiwar on Wed, 11/14/2007 - 00:00
in
A new CBS poll shows Ron Paul in 4th place with 8% in New Hampshire, ahead of Thompson and Huckabee.
In Iowa, Ron Paul is tied for 5th place with John McCain. Huckabee is in a surprising 2nd place, closing in on Romney.
The poll was taken between Nov. 2-12, so it only partially includes the recent surge of publicity for the campaign.
Polling
The mainstream media pounds the drum for Hillary and Rudy and virtually ignores the widespread and genuine grassroots suppot for Dr. Ron Paul. When they cannot do that, they attempt to demonize him or his views in some way. While it is every American's right to disagree with a politicians view point, regardless of what you think of Dr. Paul's views, you must accept that Ron Paul is a Great American, an incredibly thoughtful American that has put his personal prosperity and whatever is in his singular personal best interests aside to bring home some painful truths to his fellow American citizens. He is not a racist, anti-semetic or anything of that kind. He is a true patriot who has more to lose personally for speaking up in the manner he has. If you think Romney, Thompson or Rudy will bring the needed change to our country, you are deluding yourself. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. None of these people speak truth to power. They are all sucking up to the establishment to serve as wingmen for the neo-con agenda. Revolutionaries will always be attacked by those who have the most to lose in a revolution. . .
that's odd
if you scroll down further in the poll, it asks why you support romney and huckabee with choices like: similar values, voting record, issues blah blah blah.. and none of them are over 20%.. so why would anyone support someone who they didn't agree with??? just because the TV tells you to? jeezus if this is what this country has come to.. RP 2008!
Huckabee: TV News Just Said He is in 2nd place, with 21%, Iowa.
How?
I thought he was behind Ron Paul mere weeks ago.
Is it due to polling methods, or what?
Dick Morris on Iowa
....hope he ends up with egg on his face for not mentioning Ron Paul!
http://www.newsmax.com/morris/rudy_giuliani/2007/11/14/49414...
fonta
Bill O'Reilly Omits Ron Paul
Just heard Bill O'Reilly, on his radio show about 15 minutes ago, list the top three contenders in New Hampshire and Iowa. He mentioned Huckabee at 6% but no mention of Ron Paul at 8%. Either he isn't up to date on the poll numbers or he deliberately omitted Dr. Paul's name.
Eventually Dr. Paul will start polling so high that he can't be ignored!
I don't think you
I don't think you understand. They would ignore Paul even if he were in the lead. This isn't about reporting. It's about selecting. They don't really give a damn who wins, as long as the winner doesn't threaten to topple the house of cards. Paul is the first candidate in years who has openly promised to turn this country upside down and shake out all the sludge. These people are that sludge. They *must* silence him, for their own survival.
---Signature---
"We should have a strong president -- strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power that a president shouldn’t have." --Ron Paul
The Case For Ron Paul
Ron Paul can no longer be labeled a "long shot" candidate. He has clearly surpassed John McCain and is now a "top tier" candidate. I have created a website to support this statement.
Please visit www.thecaseforronpaul.com and judge for yourself.
The case for Ron Paul
I like it, thanks for creating.
Kent
Digg it!
I agree, it's a great site to pass along to fence-sitters. It doesn't overwhelm you with information, it just says, "here are the numbers, you be the judge." People will respond to that I think.
Digg it: http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_Case_for_Ron_Paul_aka_...
---Signature---
"We should have a strong president -- strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power that a president shouldn’t have." --Ron Paul
Why isn't Ron Paul seen as forthcoming & honest about his views?
From the article:
Huckabee and McCain are seen as the most forthcoming, say what they believe as opposed to just saying what people want to hear.
Frankly, I haven't listened to many of Huckabee's and McCains's talks, so I don't know how good that judgement is. (They are both pro-war and pro-illegal alien amnesty, so that's all I need to know about them myself.)
But certainly no candidate is more willing to state his views openly, however unpopular they may be, than Ron Paul. So clearly we need to do more to get his message out.
Face the Nation - Huckabee
Huckabee seems earnest, sometimes, but when asked about what qualifies him for managing foreign policy, he gave a couple of canned one-liners that did not answer the question convincingly. Typical politician stuff--evasive.
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
Remember regarding polls and statistics
In the words of another American President, Harry S. Truman, "There are lies, there are 'damn lies' and then there are STATISTICS!" In our case the final entry there could be replaced with "POLLS!"
We're all savvy enough to know how this game is being played out. Guess what? A growing number of other Americans are learning too. Add to this the fact there are a lot of really, REALLY angry people out there with the status quo from BOTH camps and we've got a chance to make history next year!
Just remember those words of Truman...:-)
Truman?
That was Mark Twain. Who credits it to Benjamin Disraeli, who probably never said it.
There's a dead cat on the line somewhere.....
Every pollster out there has an agenda they are attempting to validate. First of all, who's home from 8-5 everyday? Nobody in my home....I'm at work, and so is my wife. Call us working stiffs. So who do the pollsters even talk too? A target audience that answers well placed question with much predictability. "Do you belive in Apple Pie and Mitt Romney, or do you prefer Chocolate Pie and Rudy Giulliani?" Can you believe people fall for this crap? I say, don't worry about the polls, and Dr. Paul's people ought to be out there exposing the hypocracy. For instance, explain why 70% of Americans want out of the Iraq conflict, and there is only ONE candidate that say's he'll DO IT, and yet only 5% of "those polled" support him? And the same pollsters will continue to claim that Iraq is the number one issue. There's a dead cat on the line somewhere.
Ron Paul needs to keep hammering away with his CORE messeges. He IS different from all the others. He is a man of impecable integrity. His political career has been to champion the US Constitution, and not be another snout in the trough. If Americans can't appreciate this, we're in for a sorry demise as a Country. And we will have heaped in on ourselves. Can you even imagine 8 years of Hillary, or Mitt, or Barak, or Rudy? I get depressed just thinking about the possibility.
I trust the Paul campaign is competent, and professional. The big ad in the USA Today paper will help. Can something like this be done in the Iowa, and New Hampshire rags? I hope it is a well laid out, professional piece. The campaign should see that the paper is available FREE all over Iowa, and N.H. Spend, spend, spend.....early successes will only bring in more money.
alan laney
The most important part of this survey...
A few weeks ago we discussed the Laura Ingram poll which asked her audience: On which position do you agree with Congressman Ron Paul?. Remember what was the number one issue? Illegal Immigration... That's our strong point. Paul has got to find a way to link his foreign policy to immigration issues. Sprinkle in a little economy to prove that we cannot afford the war, and BAM! He just might lock in the nomination. Here's the part of the survery I use to back up the theory.
Taken from the CBS poll:
WHAT ISSUE SHOULD CANDIDATES DISCUSS?
(Among likely Republican caucus-goers)
- Illegal Immigration - 20%
- War in Iraq ----------- 15
- The economy --------- 9
- National defense ----- 8
- Health care ------------ 6
- Taxes -------------------- 6
- kipload
idealogs.blogspot.com
Illegal Immigration...
No problem because securing our borders affects immigration and our security. Illegal immigration is also a drain on our tax dollars.
He needs to repeat "No Internet Regulation" Over and Over Again
Now that RP has gotten the word out that he is for freedom and the Constitution, he needs to start convincing some of the war hawks who mistakenly believe that this kind of talk is a codeword for wanting Jose Padillo and Johnny Taliban to go free and set off dirty nukes.
I know what I am talking about here because I would still be one of these types if I wasn't living in Europe where the US government has been making unprecedented and vile new laws to try to control us and our bank accounts where they don't even have any jurisdiction.
Most American Republican males are unaware that they have lost any appreciable rights.
It does no good just to say "The Patriot Act is heinous". This is because the tens of millions of hawks, like my father and mother, think the Patriot Act only means that Muslims with beards cannot use public libraries and openly read "How to make a nuke" and expect the librarian to stay silent.
They have no idea that the Patriot Act says that the government can demand to know what porn sites they visited last month (and too many male war hawks pretend to themselves that they would never look at a porn site anyway). They are married and don't date others, so they think that everyone on the Internet needs to be identified and background checked in order to keep the family niece safe from "sex predators".
They have no idea that some strange idealogues have successfully placed "all American males with passports" in the category of "terrorist" over at the Department of Homeland Security.
Although RP may still be on the Phase 1 Introduction Stage up to Thanksgiving, in order to actually win the primaries he is going to have to show in detail how Americans have lost their rights in the past 8 years.
Because, if he does not do this, a lot of Republican pro-war males are going to continue to think that we are fighting to free other nations on behalf of the supposed most free nation on Earth.
I am not kidding. I am arguing on some neo-conservative blogs with ignorant guys, stuck in the "I hate Saddam" mode, who actually believe the USA, with all its new Internet regulation laws, is the most free nation on Earth.
In reality, we are only ahead of North Korea but behind Communist China in terms of actual freedom to do what one wants.
I humbly recommend that Ron Paul cut a 60 second commercial that goes along the following lines:
"Hi, I am Ron Paul, Republican candidate for President. I would like to address the Republicans out there who disagree with me on various issues, possibly including my view on foreign policy. I am asking you today to vote for me in spite of your disagreement. Why? Because you will know that I am honest and conservative and that I cannot be bought. How many Congressmen and Senators do you know who refuse to take part in the lucrative Congressional pension system. How many candidates for President would you expect to serve the interests of big special interests and corporate donors once in office? Now you may think that, because you have a pro-business outlook, that it wouldn't be a problem if the Republican nominee serves the interests of big corporations. You may think that "being against corporations" is to be a Marxist. But it is actually a Marxist concept to value your own personal interest less than that of the management of any organization or special interest, regardless of whether that is Shell Oil Company or the NOW. So I am asking you that, regardless of any differences you may have with me on any particular issue, you may still vote for me on Primary Day. Even if you are still undecided as to whom to vote for in the general election, voting for me in the Primary will force the nation to start talking seriously about the Constitution for the first time since 1937 when the Supreme Court was subjugated into rubber stamping every law the Congress passed. Together, we really can take back our country from the special interests. I am Ron Paul and I approve this message".
That can be said in 60 seconds.
Patriot Act - My Response to Neo Cons
When some one opposes the Patriot Act, the immediate response is “If you are doing nothing wrong, why should you be concerned?” To those people my question is “What makes you so sure that a future President will use it as intended today and not target you even if you have done nothing wrong? This may not happen to you today, but may happen to your children or grand children. Will you at that time face them and proudly proclaim that you supported it”.
My point is, Politics should not be driven by shortsightedness, or ideology. Politics is never about today, it always about tomorrow. You will reap what you sow.
“If you are doing nothing wrong, why should you be concerned?”
I would also say that just because a Neo-Con is afraid of terrorists, that does not give the government the authority to violate my rights as guaranteed by the Constitution. My right to privacy is not given to me by the government and they have no authority to take it away.
If some Neo-Con Fascist wants to allow their rights to be violated because of their fear, that is their problem, but don't tread on me!
Another idea for an ad: No New Laws Passed This Year
Another idea for an RP commercial is this:
Fictional Newscast with "Breaking News: the 112th Congress has just adjourned for Christmas Vacation without passing any new laws. Citizens across the USA are stunned at how their freedoms were not infringed and their money was not stolen by any new earmarks or laws at all over the course of 2009. President Ron Paul says that, although he had to use his veto pen a few dozen times, he was still very proud of the Congress' restraint. He contributed this to all the phone calls constituents made to their Congresspeople, telling them to stay still and behave."
Telephone polls are useless
q1 Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as President?
IOWA Rep
Approve 75%
Disapprove 19%
Don't Know 6%
NH Rep
Approve 55%
Disapprove 33%
Don't Know 11%
What would you expect from a poll where the MSM calls up mostly neo-con voters and asks them who they want to vote for? I mean, if they like Bush, the king of the dying neo-con faction, of course they'll vote for more of the same.
These telephone polls are so biased, it would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that people take them seriously.
Read this article for the long list of problems with telephone polls:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/pitkaniemi1.html
Landlines, self- elimination, vote multipliers, turnout error, you name it, telephone polls have it. MSM telephone polls are the embodiment of the 'garbage in, garbage out' axiom. I would just laugh in their faces and laugh at the '+/- 4 percentage sampling error' BS and move on with the campaign.
Good point about polls
Really good point. In medical studies you have a study group, but sometimes scientists' inclusion and exclusion criteria for the subjects gives you a selection bias that helps support your theory. I guess the polls are "scientific". Unfortunately it is the bad type of science.
anyone know of any Iowa PACs for Paul ?
If so, please list them so we can donate
freespeechwisconsin.com
Check those links
http://ronpaulbillboardsign.chipin.com/lighted-highway-billb...
http://www.operationnh.com/about.html
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
A little math
Here's an interesting little piece from the poll report:
Let me repeat the important line here "the outcome may ultimately depend on who decides to show up ". I did a little math on the numbers. Let's say every single person that indicated Ron Paul as their choice will show up at the caucus BUT only one in five of the other people will show up, then the numbers would be as follows for Iowa:
Romney 23%
Hucabee 18%
Paul 17%
Giuliani 13%
Thompson 8%
Undecided 12%
With a margin of error of 5%, this could be very interesting.
For New Hampshire the results would be even more favorable.
My point is. We need to keep reminding people to go to the primaries (or attend the caucuses). If we show up in full force we can win. If we act in the same sheepish manner as the other candidate's supporters, we will have a very hard time come primary (and caucus) season.
Cloud seeding
May be what is needed -- so that there is a BIG blizzard on the day of the caucuses.
Ditto
I was going to post the same thing but you beat me to it!
There is one thing the Dr. Paul REALLY has going for him, and that is that his supporters are rather fanatic and we WILL show up come hell or high water (or blizzard)
Ditto the ditto
I'm hoping for the most horrendous blizzard ever on polling day.
I can see the Paulites slogging to the polls in snowshoes right now.
the majority MUST be Iowa voters
I saw a reporter wrote that Ron had a great turn out at that big Straw Poll a while back but when the people found out they were from out of state, the influence decreased.
If the other "on the fence" voters saw more of their state citizens there, they would have a greater impact.
Iowa is key
Its great news he is climbing in the polls. After November 5th Ron's profile has increased around the country, but we need a big push in Iowa especially in the papers and other non Internet ways to reach the out of the web voters.
I noticed the Iowa papers didn't cover his fund raising haul. The Des Moines Register said this about the lack of coverage "We don't attempt to do blanket coverage of every development on any campaign. We cover like a laser what's done in Iowa: speeches, fund raisers, etc. But we can't possibly report with our own staff or even have space for wire reports on every development involving 16 candidates." The 4.3 million on November 5th was HUGE so it seems like more ignoring Dr. Paul's message in favor of a piece on Huckabee's proposal on computer use in schools. So we have our work cut out for us, but the message is powerful. Keep up the great work.
"In short, you see, the essential is to cease being free and to obey, in repentance, a greater rogue than oneself. When we are all guilty, that will be democracy. Without countering, cher ami, that we must take revenge for having to die alone. Death is so
My opinion
It is crucial to get out and hand out Ron Paul slim jims, literature, and post signs. This enables the people to finally discover Ron Paul at their door, in their car, after maybe hearing about him on the news lately.
Let's do it now is the time to be driving around in your car, placing slim jims on mail boxes, or walking and placing them on doors. It will instantly bring him more supporters, guaranteed.
We also need to sign up and spread the word about teaparty07!
We are taking this to the streets. Just Do It!
Michigan Patriot
Michigan Patriot
Another new poll in Iowa -
Another new poll in Iowa - RP with 5%
http://www.strategicvision.biz/political/iowa_poll_111407.htm
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
Questions 2 and 3 ....
are the real stories of that poll.
2. 74% of the people believe that George Bush is not in the mode of Ronald Reagan
3. 67% believe it is either very or somewhat important to be in the mode of Ronald Reagan.
The campaign needs to show how Dr. Paul is the most like Reagan. Not Tax Hike Mike or Flip flop Romney or any other politician/.
. Do you favor a withdrawal
. Do you favor a withdrawal of all United States military from Iraq within the next six months? (Republicans Only)
Yes 53%
No 36%
Undecided 11%
WHY IS RON PAUL AT 5 PERCENT
"Time makes more converts than reason." -Thomas Paine
Learn Liberty: lewrockwell.com/tomwoods.com/mises.org
Get EDUCATED, not AGITATED!
my blog: www.takebackrag.blogspot.com if you please
Failor
If Dr. Paul beats McCain, I will start calling Ed Failor over at Iowans for Tax Relief and laughing on a daily basis.
Failor's sins
we havn't forgotten and he hasn't atoned
"we fear change, especially nickels"
Failor
He's on the top of my dirtball list. In fact, he's at the bottom and almost every dirtball in between. He and Stephanopolous = dirtballs of the century.
Bob W., Naples, FL
I don't do PDF what are the
I don't do PDF
what are the Numbers for paul/mccain in Iowa?
"Time makes more converts than reason." -Thomas Paine
Learn Liberty: lewrockwell.com/tomwoods.com/mises.org
Get EDUCATED, not AGITATED!
my blog: www.takebackrag.blogspot.com if you please
Republicans Romney
Republicans
Romney 27%
Huckabee 21
Giuliani 15
Thompson 9
Paul 4
McCain 4
Tancredo 3
Hunter 2
Undecided 14
BUT
Many of the candidates' supporters say it is still too early to be certain they'll stay with their candidate.
Q:IS YOUR MIND MADE UP?
Mind made up 43%
Too early to say 57
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
So really it's
Republicans
Romney 11.61%
Huckabee 9.03
Giuliani 6.45
Thompson 3.87
Paul 1.72
McCain 1.72
Tancredo 1.29
Hunter 0.86
Undecided 63.45
We have lots of room to grow. I think the OporationNH Group needs to focus on Iowa more then NH at this point.
Tracy
IT'd be nice to know which percentage of which answers were "leaners" My guess is the frontrunners answers were probably a much higher percentage of leaners then the ones lower down, and the average of it all is the 43% or whatever knew for sure.
Is It Too Early?
Dr. Paul has been in politics a long time, and I'm sure he knows what he's doing in his overall campaign strategy. I just wonder, is Dec. 4th the right time to go after Mitt Romney in the debate?
remember
Remember, these polls are complete BS. Simple wording in these alters the answer greatly. Also, these polls are conducted via landline. I can't count 5 people i know who have landlines. Also, this is among registered republicans who voted for bush most likely. These numbers are grossly innacurate, but can be used as a very limited gauge. To see paul climbing is great, and if you really research, look at where paul sits with INDEPENDENT voters in the states. He is sitting somewhere from 18-20 percent in NH right now. Keep your heads up! And keep Spreading the gospel of Dr. Paul.
the dude abides.
the dude abides.