For those who love truth above all else

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If you do not fit that description, do not bother with this post. This is long and will piss you off if you can not objectively look at life. Some people form an opinion and then seek evidence to support their opinion. I consciously strive to observe and allow the truth to reveal itself, whether I like it or not. Anyway, it will probably be deleted within minutes, but here goes:

I was recently accused of believing I am “superior.” To be honest, I am not fully sure who or what I am supposed to believe I am superior to, as I stopped reading there and began to cry. Typical for me – any shock makes me cry – helluva soldier I would be! (Seriously - I can stitch you up, but will pass out if I bleed...) At any rate, the truth for me is far different. I am constantly looking for the “right” answer and rarely sure I have found it, and that is especially true for my own place in this world. This comment came from a person I thought sort of understood that about me, so it was doubly surprising. But, I did what I had to do to survive, and people may consider me a chicken or worse for it if they must, but I stopped reading. However I failed to measure up for this person, I have a day to day life I must get through without crying all the time.

Anyone who was with the Ron Paul movement through the primary season knows what it is like to have your world continually shifting under your feet. Sometimes one must carefully examine the new ground and find a way to stand there, sometimes it is best to just keep leaping, keep trying to reach a deeper meaning, or the highest truth. I do not claim to make that call correctly every time, but I have learned to make a call and then deal with my decision. I jumped, and rather than look at myself closely and be sure he was not right, that somewhere I changed from being terribly unsure about the world, about constantly questioning myself... I did not feel the need to examine that ground, I am pretty sure it is not “mine.”

I did not merely take a blind leap away from the pain, I had already been making my running start. To explain why I was running away from Ron Paul, I have to explain something about myself that at first blush will seem to confirm the accusation that had been made. I hope anyone who bothers to read this at all will read it in its entirety, and make a more fully informed decision. Perhaps a gentle reader or two might even realize there is no need for them to judge me at all, but perhaps use it as an opportunity to understand humans better by this glimpse into one human.

I am a data-processing machine, a human truth detector. Curiosity may kill cats, but it makes children very intelligent. It has been decades since I did the formal test, but at the time my IQ was 158. I want to know EVERYTHING. One of the greatest frustrations I suffer is having to drive past a dirt road I have never been down. I want to KNOW what is down there, I don't care if someone else tells me, or if there is a sign, each road is a little world of its own, and I want to go there.

Our early married life as logger and wife allowed us to be gypsies in America, and we loved it. While folks living the American dream would take a vacation for a few weeks a year, then go back to their comfortable, known world, we lived in each town for a few months. We did not blow into town, drop a few bucks and expect the locals to fawn over us, we became “honorary locals.” We were heroes, bringing a much needed boost to the small town economies of the Pacific Northwest. I would wait tables, Mark worked in the woods. Neither of us complained about our “wasted intellects” - we loved our little lives! Then something happened in Canada, we did not really understand what at the time. The mills began to close, and the logging jobs went away. We lingered a while, Mark planted trees...

We adapted. We got educated, got into health care. We even loved it, although we have always longed to return to something we lost... But we managed to become quite “successful.” Then I became a patient in the system I had dedicated much of my life to. Decades of believing I was part of the finest health care system in the world were ripped to shreds in an instant – the instant I realized the Rockefeller connection to the AMA. Everything in my world makes more sense now, but I must accept that I was a devoted, dedicated, joyful data entry unit for the medical experiments being run by the New World Order. Rough stuff to accept about one's self, but rougher still that many of the people I know and love do not heed my warnings. They cannot sustain the truth, and it becomes a chasm between us. They run to the doctor and get a prescription, and get sicker and sicker. They want to ask me about it, but they still cannot let go of their comfortable lie and hear my answer. They find it easier to believe I am deceived and keep taking the drug, keep getting sicker.

If it seems I feel “superior” because I freely admit I have a quick mind, and I have a driving, obsessive curiousity, and have been so burned by lies that I cherish truth above all else... please consider what this “superiority” costs me: I have a husband and 2 children who have lived with me through the entire process; being a waitress to the climb to managing a very large medical clinic, to being poisoned by antidepressants and rejected by the medical community I had served, to watching my brothers and sisters turn their backs on my when I became severely suicidal on and trying to get off the SSRI drugs... My little family are the only people I have any hope will stand by me for a lifetime. And that hope is great, they have not failed me through any of this, and by this I know I am greatly blessed. Beyond my family are a handful of friends, a tiny handful, who have also weathered all of my storms, and I have weathered theirs. Should life add to this band, I will rejoice. It is the time in my life that this band is likely to begin diminishing though, and that is a truth I accept. But to enlarge the band, I will not stop observing, will not stop processing the data the Universe enters into my brain – I cannot, it is my nature. I cannot compromise who I am for the sake of company that does not like me or what I say, it would be foolish.

Fellow travelers often are found on the same path as I, and I do all I can to enjoy the company while it lasts, but a logger's wife learns to move on without looking back – I daresay I would have fared better than Lot's wife. So, I offer you fellow "Ron Paul" travelers this observation, and then I shall resume walking the path that rises to meet my feet, with as much grace and dignity as a blind and bumbling truth seeker can muster. I do not wish to disturb anyone, I wish to share what little gift I was given. I have a quick brain, by nature I process data all the time, seeking the answers, looking for the “hidden picture” and I often see things long before others. There was a time I believed I was psychic, and I got many friends and family members to think I might be. Now I would say it is more as though I were the lookout. Most people are very busy, examining their checkbook, their gas gauge, the look in their spouses face – the things directly before them. My daily life is often a shambles (a housewife with piles of laundry and dishes!) but it is because my curious little eyes are fixed on the horizon. The horizon of human events and of human nature, and I often see things before others have time to look up and notice. And you, dear fellow travelers, know that the distractions to keep our eyes focused on smoke and mirrors are constant and deliberate.

The other day I posted a question, intended to provoke some discussion on US, “the grassroots” and our own weaknesses. I know it is more pleasant to focus on our strengths, but I maintain it is more useful to plumb the depths of our weakness. It is not pessimistic, it is realistic and derived from a sincere desire to succeed in the long run. This discussion never even began, and the thread deteriorated into another “is he or is he not a Mason” fight. I made a few attempts to change the direction, but then resorted to what I have chosen as my “fall-back” position: Observe. If the Universe is showing me something, even if it is not what I went looking for, I am better off to suspend my search and observe what is unfolding before me. (I am deliberately not posting a link to the previous thread, I have no desire to fire up that discussion again.)

Serendipity is my muse. Another thread began while I was still contemplating the thread I had posted. Someone was asking or offering advice on how to sort sources and interpret information. It is a worthy title, but it disturbs me that it began a month after the general election. It was the first thing Mark and I clarified in our minds: If it is all lies all the time, how do we recognize “truth?” And the answer we devised guided us through every step of this process, and it has served us well. Again, I deliberately will not “give away our secret” not because it is a secret, but because it is OUR method. I am glad people are asking this question, but saddened that it is asked so late. What were you doing before – trusting Ron Paul blindly...?

And somewhere in the back of my little data-processing brain, the final “variable” in some equation became a “known” and the summary unfolded in my mind. It was not comfortable, it was not happy, but it fit my standard for determining if something is true or not. Mind you, I know I am a “fuzzy” processor, and try to assign a probability score to my conclusions. I consider the veracity of each variable I allowed into the equation, and adjust the answer's confidence score accordingly. I will allow some wiggle room for “gut feelings” but no more than 5%. And here is what my sad little truth loving self has realized: The biggest success of the Ron Paul movement was to stop all discussion of 9-11 through the entire election. Whether he intended it or not is immaterial to me, results are what matter. I love truth, above all else, even Ron Paul.

The truth is, Ron Paul gathered a large group of truthers, got the most politically engaged and activist minded of them to SHUT UP en masse, and continues to keep them from discussing the BIG LIE that sustains the entire smoke and mirrors game. Regardless of his intent, what Master is served by his deeds?

And I wish you all well, sincerely. I know that the fucktards, as I now classify them, find what is good in a human heart and twist it to their own benefit. They are the masters at taking lemons and making lemonade; they took my desire to help the ill and made me their bitch - I have no illusions about the “possibility” that I can be deceived! But I will continue to do my best to seek ANSWERS, rather than seek justification for my opinion. And if there is one answer that could heal this entire world at once, it would be the answer to this question: "What really happened on 9-11?” As I have sought to bring this QUESTION to the forefront, the greatest hindrance, my greatest enemy has been... Ron Paul. It is time for me to grab my ass with both hands and leap, unfettered, into the abyss.

Heavy hearted, I leave you now, but the heart is carried by unburdened soul. I do not wish to make anyone angry, or uncomfortable, but you all have been the most amazing travelers I have ever encountered on my path and I cannot make the assumption that none of you were ready to read this. I shall miss you, I shall honor you all for I know that you at least are trying to stare into the abyss. All three of my genetic sisters have told me, literally, that they prefer their head in the sand. Those words. People are always welcome to contact me and PLEASE take me to deeper truths if you can, but personal attacks on me will be ignored. I have not asked you to do anything, to change anything, to be anything other than what you are right now. I have shared with you a bit of who and what I am, to the best of my ability. Your opinions of me are not important, your opinion of YOU is what matters.

I will be around for a little while to see if there are genuine, thoughtful questions or replies. I will continue to check here for headlines if I am not banned, but I cannot come here and pretend to support a man who is the best weapon AGAINST the Truth Movement, so I will no longer post here or reply to posts out of respect for the wonderful, good thing in manystrom that led to this website. But truth brought me to Ron Paul, not the other way around. Truth now leads me on.

ONLY truth can liberate.

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http://www.debunking911.com/

YOU ASK:

"What really happened on 9-11?” As I have sought to bring this QUESTION to the forefront, the greatest hindrance, my greatest enemy has been... Ron Paul."

I submit Ron Paul is not your problem.

I submit DP is not your problem.

Notice that you broke your own rule as you stated at top:--- which is to let the FACTS do the talking, not your opinions of the TRUTH. You had it right, Facts lead, Truth follows.

Unfortunately, as a 9/11 truther, you have joined a bunch of professional conspiratorial writers and video makers who have opinions FIRST, and searched out facts second to support those opinions. They do this to the exclusion of other facts that would get in the way of supporting those pre-felt opinions.

Furthermore, the "TRUTH MOVEMENT" as you call it, appeals to your libertarian predisposition to distrust government authorities (who can blame you they have a long bad & proven record of lying, spying, & stealing) and they appeal your desire for a very small government, public openness and accountability. Take just one of the big-time early "truthers" in the truth movement, Mr. Eric Hufschmid http://www.erichufschmid.net/ who has had a long life of making and promoting & profiting from Conspiracy Theories long before 9/11. From "Man never walked on the Moon" to holocoust denial, too using known truths to half truths to the short leap to Conspiracy Theory, such pros pounced on 9/11 attacks. He was one of the very first to have out in print a large professionally done graphic magazine! They asked a lot of good questions. Unfortunately they attempted the answers. The answers were there and are there and can be found at www.debunking9/11.com.

Could there have been a "soft Conspiracy" such as the one that Sibel Edmond's talks and writes about? The "look the other way" kind, yes certainly. Was the CIA in on it? So far, we can't say. A planned attack by the CIA using 19 terrorists, so far, zero evidence of that.

Like many libertarians I would love to hang that one (9/11) on the neck of Big Government...( Ok, I WOULD REALLY LOVE IT ) after all they have been doing many dastardly things such as 638 attempts on Castro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7zf3cUPAa8

You may even think like libertarian James Bovard and ask, "Are Presidents Entitled to Kill Foreigners?" And if so, how so? Secretly?
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/07/4369

I submit your problem is therefore not Ron Paul.

Your problem is your own believed to be true, "TRUTH-ER" theories.

Your personal challenge is not to be so 100% "Convinced" by them. Your challenge is to find that skepticism again, and most of all, search out all the facts, especially the ones that DISPROVE your theories.

Your problem needs to be resolved, not with the DP or with the libertarian Congressman Ron Paul, your problem needs to be resolved by going to websites such as http://www.debunking911.com/ and working through facts and reasoning that the Truth-er Movement works hard to ignore & hide.

Find that Sherlock Holmes in you again, that's your personal challenge.

Meanwhile, hang on to DP and join us.

The more of us that "YELL FIRE" ...the better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8FKfzTwueE

In Peace & Liberty,
Treg

I strongle suggest this montra!

1)Oh well -
2)so what -
3( who cares!

First, you can't change it/them
Second, what difference will it make?
Third, YOU should not worry about what other people think!

NOW, say it over an over every time things are not in your control.

Ready...

Oh well
So what
Who the (bland) cares!

Did you do it? Do you feel better? Just try it, please.

We can only control ourselves and what we think and feel. There are so many govt.-public school educated morons out there, it's easy to understand how they've been brain-washed.

You only should concern yourself with you - when it comes to things like these - they are our of your control and realm of understanding.

To many barin-off, brain-dead - I call them the collective ignorant!

Sorry you feel you have to leave

People here are ignored, ridiculed, supported, adored, respected, rejected, etc. You cannot take it personally. It happens because of the anonymity. People can voice their every emotion of the moment without regard to any one's feelings. I'll bet I've been more abused than you and many here take far, far more than I do.

I never took Dr. Paul's comments, since I am a 9-11 truth seeker, to be anything but diplomatic. He did not disagree with us. I never adjusted my mo on his urging. I carried on. Whatever I said and thought did and does not reflect on him at all or on any other person who might like someone I like. That is a very narrow interpretation of what he said. The media was just doing their little divide and conquer thing.

Intelligence is something that I keep under my hat. I don't talk about my sexuality, my sins, my intelligence, my debts, my diet, my investments, my boy friends, my husband, etc. Some things are private and intelligence is one of them. IQ is a small thing. There must be balance, common sense, education, sensitivity, morality, etc.

I suggest you don't go, but I hate goodbyes.

Paul4Won

There is another level. It's far better. Please join us. I'm sending yuo an e-mail. You are a very good person and exactly right. The truth hurts sometimes, but we must face it and honor our souls.

if you two agree on something

if you agree on something. i would be particularly interested in hearing the plan too

Several comments/replies in-one here.

Hey, FJV:

Do you have a wikipedia account? Edit there much?

Why would it heal, fight4liberty?

(I can not/will not tell you what I think happened, beyond stating that I bet you don't know what happened. That is not to sound snide. But if you do think you know what heppened... please try and prove it. Text can be tough. Yet I trust you know what I mean.

As for turning out different... it might have been MUCH worse. We could be doing a fine job as it is right now. But I can suffer from acute delusional-optimism at times.)

Because the long path we are on now more than ever, committed to for as long as we hold onto the Popular Myth OR do not care about getting to the bottom of this 'nitro-injected-double-throw-down' critically flawed impression of that one particular day, leads to only one place... war, totalitarianism and death.

If you are NOT interested in war, totalitarianism and death... a long honest study of that day, and trying your best to share new knowledge (such as the copious volumes encountered along the road toward even just an attempt at getting closer to 9/11 truth)... is one of the best ways to arming you and your loved ones against the Royal Fucktards vying for war, totalitarianism and death.

Really, I have no idea what it could be... but if someone really thinks there is a flaw in THAT statement/plan/interest to repair/improve/save our preciously rare blue globe in the near vacuum of cold space... please speak up.

Precisely because I felt Ron Paul was chopping at one of the roots of the death and slavery tree (fiats, fractional banking and all the ills stemming from it), I really thought I would find him likewise interested in taking a few swings at the war-making lies and the more intentional tools of the totalitarian tip-toe such as psy-ops, propaganda and perception management.

Alas, as courageous as he is, he may have just been too ill-equipped to address these OTHER deadly aspects aside from the money (which he has mastered, to be clear that might be a testament to his laser focus upon such a component). Or, maybe, he DOES in fact have a much deeper understanding of the deep and ugly state... he's in a position to know. But because he really has done so little to tip his hand, I'm (we're, many are) left to only speculate and yet must give him the benefit of doubt that he is having to be VERY careful. But goodness gracious, dear RP... please take a crack at explaining away the copious evidence indicating a deep-state rogue element willing to actually kill, on some rare occasions, in grand spectacles of shock-n-awe, the very people it claims to protect. PLEASE!!

Praise him, sincerely I do... yet critically fault him, I really can't. This other aspect of the liberty struggle (the diabolical mind games of the information war, such as that brought forward by our own FJV here, irrespective whether he knows it or not), is that Ron Paul himself can not do it all by himself. Shit, even Messiah Savior Himself Obama is finally trying to remind his support base of this little reality too. Funny thing then when his 'followers' too seem to have a mind of their own, eh?

Gotta step out to do a bit of meat-space work... I'll try and get back here soon enough.

e

p.s., fight4liberty: ALL of that above was written in a voice of kindness or socratic challenge at worst. NOT yelled, accusatorial or nasty. FJV on the other hand... I'm not too sure about you though. You should hear a bit more personal punch in my voice. I wonder much about your deeper motives, based upon your writings, suggestions to others, and general dismissal of substance.

It is my hope

you take a little break and then come back. I can understand what you are saying. My take is that I would never have learned the truth about 9-11 if it had not been for Ron Paul. I discovered Ron Paul then 9-11 then all the illegal Fed etc. etc. It is a domino effect and for me it worked. I am so happy that the 9-11 people did not give up trying to educate because I was lucky enough to hear them. I can also understand Dr. Paul's position, he was walking a tight rope with the MSM trying to push him off. Truth is awesome but like I say it is hard to swallow for some people. Good luck to you I admire your courage.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

I don't see any evidence of

I don't see any evidence of 9/11 truthers shutting up. Can you point us to some? I see people trying to shut them up but don't see any success.

I don't see that Ron Paul has hindered the truth movement or shut them up at all. On the contrary in my experience 9/11 gets discussed regularly here. There are always naysayers and sometimes the arguments get ridiculous but this has been one place outside of boards specifically designated for it that 9/11 has been discussed very openly.

While Ron Paul has openly said he does not support the idea of 9/11 being an inside job and thinks it was just incompetence I think that he has actually almost single handedly brought it to the fore front.

Ron has remained focused on a specific area and this has done more to bring truth to light then anything I have seen in 20+ years and in areas never expected including 9/11 He can't do everything and others have taken up the cause in other areas .He doe not know all and see all and he can be wrong in areas and I think he is wrong about 9/11 personally.

However to say he is the biggest hindrance to truth is a huge mistake. You yourself said this movement brought you into a whole new world of truth and now you see him as the biggest hindrance to truth? It doesn't make any sense.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Interesting use of words

Your first two paragraphs begin "I don't see..." If you do not see something, is that proof to you that it does not exist? As for the examples you request, I offer only myself, mine is the only heart I know. I can tell you the names of others who have told me, but what is gained? If they did not tell you, then perhaps your replies will begin "I do not hear..." More importantly, I did not ask you to see the world through my eyes, I offered a glimpse of the view from where I stand. I was moved to action by the lies of 9-11, I was silenced by Ron Paul, that is enough "evidence" for me, but I do not seek to convince anyone of anything, so do not claim it to be empiric proof. And what I stated was that he hindered MY efforts to bring the 9-11 question to the forefront, not that "he is the biggest hindrance to truth."
Funny thing I have noticed when things don't make sense - it usually means I am defending a lie.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

Choice of words

Wow bet you think that was a really profound observation about my choice of wording. Perhaps I should have worded it differently? Such as; "I see something other then what you claim to see when looking in the same direction". And I asked you to point me to what you claim to see in case I somehow missed it but you chose to try and insinuate I simply don't see rather then help me see.

But then again I went on to describe what it is I do see but you again chose to ignore that and insinuate I simply don't see. So what does that say about your choice of words and the focus of your observations?

The hardest truths to see are usually the truths about ourselves. Some need to take a break from the horizon and look within and perhaps clear away some of the things obstructing their view so they can see more of the horizon better.

I am curious how it is you feel Ron Paul silenced you? He has no power or authority to do that only you can choose to speak or not speak. No one has that power over you but you.

You see that's the dig you are the only one responsible for your choices and at some point you have to grow up and stop blaming others and the system etc. While all those things may have had some influence on you ultimately you are the one responsible for your choices not Ron Paul, or the meet up group, or the health care system, or what ever or whom ever it may be.

You claim you did not say Ron Paul was the biggest hinderance to truth only that he hindered you but here is your quote:

"but I cannot come here and pretend to support a man who is the best weapon AGAINST the Truth Movement"

Also you are not the only one who has had problems many much worse then yours. Most people here are searching for truth minus a few trolls. Everyone is at different levels all are on each level at one time or another and we should be mindful of those who may not be on the same level as ourselves.

We all sit her and complain a lot about how the system oppresses us but we still have a choice. We could rise up and change the system or die trying but we as a group chose to not to.

Granted it's not a pleasant choice but ultimately we don't have to put up with it as individuals or a group. We just chose to tolerate it as long as it is tolerable and wait and hope we as group rise up when we have a better chance of changing it with less cost. Ultimately it is our choice. And the most beneficial choices are almost always the hardest.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

unread

first sentence was a personal attack, and I am not engaging in this.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

It was not a personal attack

Even though it was a response to your personal attack on me insinuating perhaps I don't see.

Though nice strategy for avoiding dealing with truth and logic, crying that it must be a personal attack and you refuse to read it.

But wow talk about refusing so see or hear... Not a problem though I didn't specifically write it just to you but in hopes it might benefit others more so.

So in the future to save you the trouble you don't have to post that you didn't read it just simply don't read it.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

first of all

it was not Ron who made you silent on 9/11 Truth but someone from RP meetup group.

I met many Truthers across Canada who where giving away 9/11 info on the streets together with Ron Paul for president bumper stickers and people including American tourists loved it.

It was your personal choice to continue or discontinue speaking up about 9/11....
As a Truther myself I made the choice of supporting both Ron's campaign and 9/11 Truth during the election process and have encountered very limited opposition while doing it.
Early in the campaign there was a video made of Ron arriving at Pheonix airport and his speech was one of the best ever.
He was asked about 9/11 and he said "there has to be an independent investigation and we know governements tend to do cover ups".

Hope you stay with us and keep your hard work for freedom.

http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/

Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul

It was on Ron Paul's behalf that I did not speak out

My experience is my own, not based upon his interactions with others. The meetup organizer who asked me to remain silent about 9-11 as recently as 6 weeks ago was in direct telephone contact with Dr. Paul, and informing me that it was Dr. Paul's desire that I remain silent until after the election. I did as was requested, as close to directly from Ron Paul as it gets for me. I never had access directly to him, I have always been at least one person removed from him. Several of them reiterated the desire that 9-11 be left alone. My situation was my own, I felt pressured to keep quiet but I did do it freely, I believed it was "for the greater good." I have promised myself I will never fall for that lie again. "The greater good" is just spin on "the lesser of 2 evils."
Truth was the greater good, I failed. But so did he. I have admitted my failure.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

i think you're reading dr. paul wrong

the obliteration of our constitution, the plundering of our wealth are all solid documented facts. we can debate which 9-11 theory is the right one but as of now, none have gained widespread msm attention. how many here have tried to reach out to others only to have them get angry at the mere suggestion of our govt. having any responsibility in that event? dr. paul, imo, has simply had us focus on the undeniable. for some reason people are more inclined to believe their govt. is ripping them off than they are to believe their govt. is actively killing them. i know what i believe as far as 9-11 is concerned but it no longer is part of my "speech" to others. until some semblance of honest govt. is reinstated in this country we will never know.

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

ron4won - I am glad for you that you posted this...

...because you are being true to yourself and I know how hard it has been for you and most other Truthers to restrain yourself from talking about the subject of 9-11 in order to honor Ron Paul's request not to. I am not a Truther but I have been in a similar position in my life a few times where I had to not talk about certain subjects that were very important to me and it was very stressful.

My own position regarding 9-11 has been that I just don't know one way or the other but that I sure wouldn't put it past them to have staged such an event.

However, there's one thing I have never understood about the TM that maybe you can help me with and it has to do with something you said in your post.

Quote: "And if there is one answer that could heal this entire world at once, it would be the answer to this question: 'What really happened on 9-11?' "

And I am not trying to be a smart ass when I ask you the following questions (I really would like to know your answer).

Let's say there had been some way to discover and reveal the truth of what happened on 9-11 and it was revealed to the public. 1) Tell me in your best judgement what you believe happened and then, 2) tell me how making that known to the public through the media would have (or will in the future) "...heal this entire world at once". Then tell me, if you and the other Truthers had not listened to Ron Paul about not talking about it and continued to actively voice your beliefs and expand the TM,
3) what do you think would have turned out differently for both the TM and Ron Paul's freedom movement?

Continue being true to yourself and good luck!

fight4liberty

my thoughts

1. I do not know what happened, and it angers me. There has been an "investigation" and it has been revised and morphed, and never provided answers. I can speculate with the best, but I do not like speculation, I like truth. The fact that Bush and Cheney refused to testify under oath seems terribly close to treason, under the circumstances, in my opinion. It is suspiscious, to say the least.
2. It would heal the divide between you and I immediately, would it not? What is the complaint with 9-11 posts? "They are divisive." Why are they divisive? Because we all WANT to know, and we do not. As for what would have happened, a year ago, if I had thrown $30,000 and a year of my life at trying to educate the public about the 9-11 LACK of truth, as that is really the issue... how can I ever know? As mentioned, I don't really care to speculate. I know that is what I threw at the Ron Paul for President movement. It got me stood down by Lew Moore and Drew Ivers. Odd little trivia bit my brain latched on to: It was about one month of Lew's salary...
What would be different? I don't know. But there were 10,000 - 15,000 screaming truthers when Jesse Ventrua spoke at a Ron Paul Rally. What if Ron Paul had spoken at a "Truther" rally? What if...? I suspect I will never know.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

OK, thanks for your reply.

I really know what you mean about not knowing what happened makes you angry!

I for one want to thank you and all the other Truthers that honored Ron Paul's request to not talk about 9-11 in connection with RP's campaign, since I'm convinced that your sacrifice in doing this allowed RP to reach thousands more people with the freedom message than he would have reached otherwise.

In other words he would have been marginalized by the media even more than he was and that's not a "put down" of Truthers, it's just a statement based on the MSM distorted political perceptions of the average citizen.

Take care and I hope you find some more fellow Truthers from this thread.

fight4liberty

You have had quite a good

You have had quite a good life. It sounds like you and your family have a lot to be thankful for and while I disagree with your 9/11 beliefs, and to be fair to yourself, you should keep an open mind about evidence that doesn't support your POV also. One person's opinion is too narrow a lens to view the world.
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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

I have asked for an investigation, not "agreement" with anything

I am really not one who clings to my "sacred point of view." That is why Dr. Paul's stance is disturbing. Can he not even demand we seek the truth on this? What I am certain of regarding 9-11 is this: Bush and Cheney did nore to inhibit the investigation than they did to find answers. They did it with my tax money. They did NOT do it to the survivor's satisfaction. I demand better. Why can't Dr. Paul stand beside me now, and beside those widows? I put so much aside for him, so much on the line for him, and now...?

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

People died and that's it.

People died and that's it. Shit happens, as the saying goes. It'll never be acknowledged as anyone's fault other than the people and organizations who planned and carried out the attacks. That I can almost guarantee. Ours is not a very reflective nation, we are a nation that acts before we think.
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Have a good laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

FJV = ASTOUNDING IGNORANCE

What is the Hegelian Dialectic? Problem, Reaction, Solution.....

Now go and study.....Run along
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm

No, that wasn't "it"...

It was the excuse for the freedom-grabbing so-called Patriot Act, war ("pre-emptive" war at that...), TORTURE, indefinite imprisonment(Guantanamo), etc.

No, it wasn't "people died and that's it".

Even if it is never acknowledged as anyone's fault as you say above, doesn't mean you just go "oh well" as you have done by saying "People died and that's it. Shit happens..."

Those things happened after

Those things happened after the fact and as a ham-fisted political reaction to the events. Political showboating has never been a good substitute for well-reasoned policy that strengthens our Constitutional values.
................
Have a good laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Patriot Act was not dreamed up after the fact.

Are you serious that you think the things I listed were knee-jerk reactions, or "ham-fisted political reaction to the events" as you call them above?

Wow!

I have so much to say... but still a bit speechless by the [near] totality of your post.

Please stick around or check back soon enough... I want to try and respond to this, even if I'm only talking to myself.

At minimum, I can write here and now... that I do so hope our dear friend Ron Paul is being exposed to words such as yours... even Obama... and taking the deepest and most sincere effort to meditate upon such a hinge point of our age; The survival and renaissance of humanity if only for honestly examining the exponentially expansive awareness achieved through studying the complete ugliness of one modern day.

I do not want to self-bump this

I have checked back a couple times, but the last post dragged it off the bottom so I will stop checking. Please feel free to email me, it is in one of my replies below.
Peace!

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

paul4won,

You do not have to leave just because RP caved on the 9/11 thing in that debate response, or whether he believes there was any hanky-panky involved in 9/11 or not.

Gasp! Did stephanoreillyluvsrp just say that RP caved? Yes. He caved. He got backed into a corner by the moderator in that debate and did not stick with his FIRST responses about not telling his supporters what to do.

His first response about not telling his supporters what to do was MUCH more consistent with everything he has ever stood for than the final response that has been the "basis" for keeping people from seeking the truth about what really happened on 9/11. Not sure why others couldn't see that... but anyway...

Sabbotage? (as someone below thought you implied..) No. Just human weakness. How many of us could have withstood all that RP had to go up against?

Just because RP was weak on that, whether he believes any foul play in 9/11 or not, doesn't mean you have to leave.

Many of us are seeking truth, too. We are not all at the same place, and even if we ever will be, we may not get there at the same time. :)

Sorry Not sure what the problem is.

and can you explain this comment in a simple way?

"The truth is, Ron Paul gathered a large group of truthers, got the most politically engaged and activist minded of them to SHUT UP en masse, and continues to keep them from discussing the BIG LIE that sustains the entire smoke and mirrors game. Regardless of his intent, what Master is served by his deeds?"

I have also left this website in frustration a few times. Bet many of us have done the same. But I keep coming back because this is an intelligent and sensitive group, and that includes you. We are like minded people.

By the way I too worked in the medical field and got out when I started seeing the truth, as you did. My family listens but still are brain washed by the system. This corruption is like tentacles that are woven into virtually every facet of our modern civilization.

I think Ron Paul is well aware of the corruption, but he has to walk softly and speak his words carefully, or be viewed as an extremist, and then no one will listen,

Hate to lose an intelligent observer. Hope you come back.