UPDATE: The U.S. Dept. of State STILL refuses to grant me a passport.
Unless, I send them more info.
I originally applied for a passport in early Oct. this year. I submitted my birth certificate and filled out the paperwork and paid the $100 fee. 3 weeks later, I get an envelope stating that "the information you provided is not sufficient for passport purposes." They said that I sent them a Texas Birth Card, or Birth Abstract, and not a Long-form birth certificate. I didn't know that there was a difference, and the passport application didn't say anything about a long-form birth certificate, but I still decided to contact Austin and pay them to produce and ship me a copy of my birth certificate-- around $30.
So in about 8 weeks, I get my new birth certificate and send it to the Dept. of State. (Charleston, SC)
I get a letter yesterday saying that "the information you provided is not sufficient for passport purposes."
It now asks that I send them 5 photocopies of personal documents (like former state IDs, yearbook photos, school IDs, voter registration cards, social security card, and then traffic tickets, newspaper/magazine articles with a photo and name?! medical records etc.) to help confirm my identity.
But not only do they ask for me to submit copies of my personal information, but they're also demanding that I complete a supplemental worksheet that asks (with locations and dates) for former residences, employment history, personal information of my parents, spouse, and siblings, and school history. (With the worksheet being in English with Spanish translations...)
I am so frustrated with this system. All the passport application asked for was a birth certificate and a fee. I think I even remember the lady making copies of my social security card and ID card and submitting those along with my birth card. What further proof do they need?! I sent them the damn long-form birth certificate!
There should be no doubt that I am an American Citizen. I don't know why or how the government will use the information they're requesting. If they wanted to know this stuff, I have NO DOUBT that they would be able to find it if they did a little research. I refuse to give them this information.
A friend suggested I contact a senator or a representative. I don't know what to do... I just want to be able to leave the country whenever I please... :(
Any advice?
Here's the final paragraph on the letter I received:
If we do not receive the requested information within ninety (90) days or the information you submit is insufficient to establish your entitlement to a U.S. passport in accordance with the relevant provisions of Part 51 of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations, your application will be denied and your evidence returned to you. Any special return postage will be returned or refunded.
UPDATE: (as of Dec. 11, 2008)
So last night, I went on Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson's website, clicked the "Passport Assistance" tab, and faxed her the form for Passport Assistance.
Today, I get a call from a Carolyn Covey (or Covee), one of Sen. Hutchinson's lackeys who specializes in Passport Assistance, and she asks me questions like, were you born in a rural area? no, were you delivered by a midwife? no, were you born in a hospital? yes, how old are you? 22, when did you file the application? oct., why do they want to know more information? I don't know the customer service representative didn't know, why didn't you make a copy of your long-form birth certificate when you received it? cause I didn't think that they'd give me much hassle, (and she replied rather surlily, "Yeah, I bet."-- Southern Hospitality at its finest.) She said that she'd give them a call and see what she could do.
About 15 minutes later, I get a call from her again and she says that I'm gonna need to give them the information. That the station in Edina where I filed my Passport didn't ask for all of the necessary information, so I needed to submit more. That the fact that I filed for a Passport in Minnesota, when I'm a Texas resident, that I sent them a birth card the first time instead of a birth certificate, that I don't have a driver's license, that I had someone present at the admitting station sign an oath vouching for my citizenship, and that I had a Texas Senator's office calling them when my delivery address is in Minnesota, is enough grounds for them to suspect that I'm not an American Citizen, and that I may have submitted false information.
She asked if I was Catholic, and I said, well, yeah,
Covey: "Well, we can submit a copy of your baptismal certificate. And we can also send them a yearbook photo. And were you ever in the newspaper for sports or anything like that?"
Me: I was in the paper for high school band...
Covey: "Okay, as long as it has your name and photo we're good."
Me: "But when I was at the station, all they asked for was a birth certificate, and a driver's license, and I think my Social Security card...
Covey: No they wouldn't have accepted the Social Security card.
Me: ...And I had a college transcript on hand that I was willing to give to the lady, but she said that it wasn't necessary.
Covey: "Well, that wouldn't have been much help cause they want documents from the past."
Me: "Is there anyway to get around submitting the information.
Covey: "No, these are the rules you're just going to have to follow them."
Me: "Well, seeing as how I'm from Texas, I've got a little bit of a Libertarian streak in me, and I just don't feel like I need to give them more information, they have my birth certificate and my ID."
Her: "Well, I don't care what you think, they don't care what you think, these are the rules ever since 9/11, and if you want to get a passport, then you'll submit the information, otherwise they'll cancel the application, and you'll have to file for another passport."
Me: "Will they refund the money if I don't send them the information?"
Her: "NO. But they are willing to accept faxes of documents from my office, so if you could just send them over..."
Me: I'm in Minnesota. I don't have access to those documents.
Her: Well, does your mother have access to them.
Me: Well... yeah... but...
Her: Are your parents divorced?
Me: Yes.
Her: Sorry for butting in, but I'm just trying to understand the situation.
Me: That's fine.
Her: Well, can you contact your mother about getting this information?
Me: No, not really.
Her: Are you estranged from your parents?
Me: Well... Yes. (lies.)
Her: Well, I don't know what to tell you, you're gonna need to be sending these documents over if you want to get a passport.
Me: Well, let me get this straight: I've submitted them a birth certificate, they made copies of my ID card, I had someone vouch that they've known me for over 2 years, and they still want more information to prove my Citizenship?
Her: Ever since 9/11 the rules have changed.
Me: But the documents they're asking for can be easily forged!
Her: Well, I don't make up the rules.
Me: So let me get this straight, if the federal government doesn't feel that they have enough evidence to prove my Citizenship to grant me a passport, then maybe I shouldn't pay taxes. So, what, am I not a Citizen!?
Her: Well, if you want to stop paying taxes that's your choice. Look, ever since 9/11 there have been a lot of conflicts with people getting passports. I have this one case of someone who'll probably never get a passport. He was abducted or illegally adopted when he was younger, and has no birth certificate, or no knowledge of where he was for his first 4 years. He was raised in America thinking he was American, but he'll probably never get a passport. And you know... ever since 9/11, we have to have more security, after what those people did, you know?
Me: So then, we just make it harder for people without citizenship to leave the country?
Her: Well, the passport is there to help bring you back into the country once you've left.
Her: You should see the amount of documents they receive that are forged.
Her: Should I contact your mother?
Me: No... I haven't spoken to her in like 2 years, but I'll try to give it a shot. (more lies.)
Her: Well, I can call her if you'd like.
Me: No, that's fine, I'll call her.
Her: Well, why are you planning on visiting Mexico?
Me: I don't know, to go clubbing with friends.
Her: Well, that doesn't look like it's gonna be happening without your passport!
Me: Well, before I had my passport, I was planning on going and just using my birth certificate to get across, but I can't do that either, cause the government won't give me my forms back.
Her: Well, then fax us the forms and we'll get you your passport.
Her: Just give me a call, when you're ready to fax over the information.
Me: Bye, Ms. Covey.
AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting. If you were
Interesting.
If you were born in Kenya or immigrated to Indonesia when you were a kid they probably would simply let you slide.
...
Why don't you wan't your mom to know your goint to Mexico?
That is the real question...
Everything else seemed like standard operating procedure.
If you want a passport your going to need to have a couple copies of all those documents just in case and plan 6-8 months ahead.
And, then you have to think of if any of the countries your going to require visa's. You'll have to mail your passport off to them with documents.
Se la vi !
You've finally made it..
Yea !
Christmas surprise.
That and I wanted to be see if Ms. Covey would offer any alternatives to my sending any extra personal information.
She didn't.
I'm calling the Dept. of State tomorrow. again. It doesn't make any sense. The documents they want me to fax to prove my citizenship have no sort of standards for authenticity. I mean my baptismal certificate?! do you know how many churches have their own types of documentation regarding baptism? And then if I was in a newspaper? Hello, Federal government, I could easily scan my picture into a magazine and change the caption to include my name. It's not rocket science. All it takes is a computer and a scanner. The fact that they want them faxed makes it even easier.
Government documents are used for acquiring passports primarily because they're hard to fake. If I was able to make such a convincing copy of my birth certificate, wouldn't I be able to make tons of fake Mickey Mouse documents?
I think I'm going to cancel the charge on my credit card. It's extortion. Give us your life history, or we'll steal your $114.00 and probably put you on a terror watch list.
Regrets.
I should've just called Ron Paul. I'm also thinking about calling Sen. Amy Klobuchar from Minnesota cause apparently I'm no longer a Texas resident.
Why would you bother Ron Paul with this?
You don't think he has slightly more important things to do? You don't even live in Texas.
Look kid, you sent them the wrong birth document and, from how it sounds, didn't fill out your application properly. In addition, you didn't note your application number on the certificate you sent nor take a copy of that document.
They are inept and you pressed the "extra ineptness" button by making a mistake or two.
Give them the info. and get your passport or let the application die and start over.
What is it you would like us to do for you?
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Whoa, watch it there, buddy.
I did figure Ron Paul had better things to do (I think in an earlier comment I said that he probably has "bigger fish to fry.")
I'm posting this because I was wondering if anyone else was going through the same thing I was concerning passports. I googled "passport troubles" and didn't really produce anything substantive, so I figured I might as well post my grievances on the Daily Paul (as so many others do). I talked it over with some friends, and some of them (the Hispanic ones) said that they had to go through similar troubles. One said this: "They made me jump through those hoops as well but the final slap in the face was when they made me contact the doctor that delivered me and three teachers from middle school." She added it was because her last name was Spanish, like mine.
And what, should I be punished for being between states? I study in Minnesota, but my family lives in Texas. I'm not a Minnesota resident yet (just look at my tuition fees...), so I tried to contact my Texas Senator. I was even a delegate at the Republican county convention in Texas!
I'm just trying to get a passport. I don't appreciate being hassled by the federal government. I'm just telling my story.
(And why would I make a copy of my birth certificate? What am I going to go to a government office and say "here, this is a copy of my birth certificate, I'd like some service." ? They'd ask for the real one.)
And, please, don't "kid" me. It's rude.
I'm not a "buddy".
Your Hispanic friends are having trouble because a major scam has come to light in Texas regarding the legitimacy of Texas births where Mexican midwifes were present. Many midwifes have been caught registering Mexican-born babies as US-born. Many of them are now adults and are finding out they are not US citizens and are facing deportation. How is it that I know about this and you don't? Didn't it make your news?
Because your surname is Spanish and you were born in Texas at the right time for this scam, they are requiring extra information from you. Suck it up.
You are an adult. If you leave Texas for a certain period of time, you are no longer considered a resident. It doesn't matter if your family is there. I suggest keeping your Texas driver's license.
Why would you make a copy of your birth certificate? You can get a copy notarized and, in many cases, it's as good as having the real thing.
Please, don't tell me what words to use. I'm sorry if you found it rude. When I was your age, it was no big deal for someone older to call me "kid". You must be more sensitive than I was.
Good luck.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Oh!
This is a woman! That completely changes the tone of your comment! Women calling me 'kid' is fine.
Just when a guy calls you 'kid', it usually implies condescension.
I've never heard about the midwife news, though I don't doubt that it's true. My birth certificate shows it was from a hospital. Both of my parents are American. I've only been gone from Texas for like 4 months.
And like I was saying before, if this is how governments are rounding up illegal immigrants, it's a pretty flawed system. What, kids who grew up being Mexican but thinking that they're American don't have any records from church, or the public schools they've attended?
I can't see how giving them extra information will help 'prove' that I've been a Citizen this entire time. That was my birth certificate and social security card's job.
And for the record, women can be buddies too. Remember, we all love Dr. Paul on this site!
its too bad!!!
Your not running for president because you would never be subjected to this kind of scrutiny! *** Never go quietly into the night *** Dylan Thomas
Ha!
You took the words right out of my mouth!
“The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.” Ron Paul - The Revolution
Have you had a previous passport?
Two years ago, about this time, I was asked to acquire and deliver a yacht from Honduras. I discovered my passport was expired, and opted for the express treatment. Within four days I had my new passport.
And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
Nope this is my first one.
I'm gonna see what sort of support I can get to have this go through first, and then I'll consider cancelling the request, and filing a new one using the express treatment.
Hmmmm,
this could be a blessing. If you can't prove your a citizen then why pay taxes? If things get real bad ask to be deported. LOL If your not a citizen then they can't draft you.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
LOL
I gave her that argument. She didn't seem very amused.
Also, if you're not a
Also, if you're not a citizen you can go to any hospital emergency room and say you are broke with no money and they can't legally turn you away, and never pay a dime. No wonder so many illegal aliens come here when they can so easily take advantage of our system, and law enforcement is so lax.
Its sad to think that in this country, non-citizens are sometimes better off than citizens are.
maybe because
he's on the Daily Paul?
Has anyone else gotten a phone survey
after the election? Last night I got a call from (couldn't catch name of survey company) in Alexandria, VA...lady named Lopez. She said it was a survey to see how the American people feel about the government and the direction the country is taking. After a couple of questions, I got a little uncomfortable with it...why ask questions now, the election is over. She wanted to know if I vote, if I vote Republican or Democrat, if I was happy with the direction the country was going. Then she said "this is a bit unusual, but we'd like you to rate a number of people in the government, using a scale of 1 to 100,"...at that point I excused myself.
Then after I got off the phone, I went back to watch a program on American Citizens and guns on NGO (the type of slant you would expect) and there was an ad featuring young people and urging them to give a year of their lives working for change.....! Change, over and over, young smiling faces. Yikes, time to turn off the TV and go to bed. It's too cold to stay up late anyway...this global warming is not producing here in Nevada.
IT'S DOABLE
Alpacas - IT'S DOABLE
Let me get this straight. So
Let me get this straight. So if you can't prove your an American citizen then yo can't leave the country?
So what's next a visit from immigration since you couldn't prove your citizenship... Sigh
Hey wait a minute then you must be eligible for all the government freebies given to illegals.
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Get Prepared!
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
8 weeks?! I opted for the routine/non-rush processing and my...
passport only took 9 days from application to my mailbox...a full 5 days quicker than the more expensive expedited/rush service. Go figure...
This is a great opportunity
Bureaucrats are creatures of habit and fear. Mostly fear of their boss and losing their precious little kiss-butt job. Find out who the guy's boss is. If you can find out who the boss's boss is. Send in your strongest worded letter possible, being polite but unrelenting in law and possible libel for action. Send one copy to the boss boss and one copy to the boss TWO days before you send the original to the fraidy-cat bureaucrat. The bureaucrat will catch holy hell before he even knows what is going on. He will look foolish before his Almighty Boss. Almight Bosses do NOT LIKE to be caught up in something an incompetent did or didn't do - makes him look bad too. This tactic has worked for me over and over - it has never failed.
You don't think they have some sort of list do you?
Now to find out who the boss' boss is...
Sorry to hear that.
The two logical things that come to mind (being one who is well-versed in international travel and the BS that comes with it) is
A) your name popped on a watch list. This recently happened to a colleague of mine and he had to go through a ton of hoops. (his name was similar or same as a different guy, so it was a clerical error).
or
B) Typical incompetent bureaucracy. I think this is the most likely reason. The vetting required nowadays is a simple nightmare because they keep changing the rules more frequently than their underwear. You think a passport app is bad, try going through ten times the rotor-rooter treatment and obtain a TS or SCI clearance. It took me 19 months before mine went through. I swore I'd never go through that crap again.
You need to do an Obama
You may get your passport if you don't do the following, it's the only way they can confirm your a Citizen of the united states.
Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released
Certificate of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released
Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released
Punahou School records -- Not released
Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport (Pakistan) -- Not released
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
LOL
I'd cuss 'em and send them a copy of this.
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multicultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat."
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
That's odd
because I got my passport after 9/11 and all I had to show was two forms of ID. There was no problem. I wonder why they are making you jump through hoops.
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
Man that is not right at
Man that is not right at all. I filed for one last year and I got it in about 8 weeks. I didnt have to go through the hoops like you did. Now for granted I did have to get one for my job and I had a letter with me but I can't believe You have to do that crap.
I feel like my hands are tied.
I've already told friends that I'm not submitting the information. But they're going to charge me regardless... and I don't just have spare $100 bills for buying passports laying around...
And yet you don't need to
And yet you don't need to produce a birth certificate to be president. What a strange country.
Hmmmm
I wonder of your name has shown up on one of the gubermint's watch lists? Have you taken an airline flight recently? If your name is on a watch list, the letters"SSSS" will appear in the lower right hand side of your boarding pass.
Have you purchased a weapon recently? Applied for a concealed carry permit or anything else that might flag your name?
Do you think purchasing a legal weapon
will put someone on a watch list?