What Makes You Believe the Government's Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory?
In other words, why do you believe the government's official 9/11 conspiracy theory? I do not pose this question for the sake of trivia. It is a simple and rational question with a complex answer.
I want to know what you think.
What I am interested in, at least in this thread, is either proving or disproving beyond a reasonable doubt the government's official explanation (or conspiracy theory, because, do not kid yourselves, the government's explanation was that of a criminal or international criminal conspiracy) of the events of 11 September 2001.
In all candor, the present thread is in response to the thread found here. I thought it was appropriate to give my question a thread of its own.
I submit that my question is also a request. My request is that you would please cite the self-consistent, relevant facts, empirical evidence and historical precedent(s) that lead you to believe (or to disbelieve) the government's official conspiracy theory concerning the events of 11 September 2001 that 19 Arab Muslims "collapsed" three (3) buildings with two (2) aircraft, penetrated the Pentagon's (U.S. Military Command Center) defenses with an alleged commercial airliner and allegedly crashed a commercial airliner in Pennsylvania.
I make this post because free and rational discourse and debate are at the foundation of a free, open and democratic society. Without the rigorous and exhaustive interrogation of discernible, observable, measurable, and empirical evidence, the percipience of genuine truth by humankind would be only a fallacy.
From a philosophical perspective, we all, through our very nature as physical beings limited by our five senses, three discernible physical dimensions and what we call “time”, intrinsically discern the singular truth of the reality of our known physical universe, often times subconsciously. In our commonplace, daily lives rarely do we need to be told what is real and what is unreal or what is truth or what is untruth. We know and understand the existence of the force of gravity exerted upon our bodies and (to a reasonable degree) upon our environment and surroundings because we have directly experienced gravity throughout our lives. This concept of the “certainty” of our existence in this physical world can be applied almost infinitely to our lives (i.e. we know how certain foods taste or smell, we know what the colors red, white and blue look like, we know what a whistle sounds like, etc.).
I go to these lengths to describe human perception and discernment of truth, because, indeed, I contend that there is a singular truth to discernible reality.
To answer the question, "what happened on 9/11?", I begin with two other questions: what is the most rational mode to discern the truth with a reasonable degree of certainty? Is it not from a neutral point of view, employing the scientific method, and comparison to relevant historical example, that rational human beings have traditionally discerned truth?
It is time to set aside the irrational predisposition to ad hominem and straw-man arguments, red herring and a priori reasoning that merely impede free and rational debate, and focus on the scientific, forensic-based evidence that best answers the question, "what happened on 9/11?".
As I have articulated previously, the clinical, dispassionate interrogation of the observable, measurable and empirical evidence and relevant historical example regarding the events of 11 September 2001 should, naturally, be exhaustively and rigorously applied by anyone who wishes to discern the truth (not just the 9/11 truth movement).
It is time to discard the religious myth of 9/11 whereby those who reject the government's official conspiracy theory are treated heretically—and for people of good conscience to clinically and dispassionately discern the truth of the reality of 9/11.
Thanks and have a great day! :-(|)
"Truth, crushed to Earth, shall rise again." -William Cullen Bryant





















Because the simplest answer
(and thus the most reliable) is that 19 people hijacked 2 planes and flew them into buildings which collapsed from fire aggravated structural damage.
CHA-CHING!
Here's my article from 5 years ago at lewrockwell.com:
I explain here why we aren't facing terrorists who hate our freedoms and way of life. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/vancleave4.html.
It makes all the more sense now that we've realized that 9/11 had to be an inside job.
Where to start?
The fact that FDR knew about what was going to happen in Pearl Harbor well in advance, but informed no one?
The fact that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was staged by America to falsely engage us in war?
The fact that our government has overthrown elected Middle Eastern officials and manipulated the Middle East into hating us, yet uses the media to tell us that they hate us because we're free?
The fact that the Federal Reserve was a dubious act passed on Dec. 23, when virtually no Senators were present to vote against it?
I could go on here... The question is, what in God's name would make you think that with all the lies that have historically emanated from our government and our government-manipulated media, what in God's name would cause you to believe the official story? Look at all that 9/11 has accomplished for the central bankers. Things are JUST where they want them.
FDR was a sh!tbag
Suggested readings:
Flyboys
http://www.amazon.com/Flyboys-Story-Courage-James-Bradley/dp...
Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor
http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/07432...
With Our Own Eyes: Eyewitnesses to the Final Days of Amelia Earhart
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Own-Eyes-Eyewitnesses-Earhart/dp/0...
With the freedom of information act it is clear that our government lies to it's subjects all the time. Big lies, REALLY BIG LIES.
The 911 fable simply does not stand up to any reasonable scrutiny.
Ron Paul for President 2012
Ron Paul is my President.
Right on!
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
On September 13, 2001...
On September 13, 2001, I wrote in my journal: "I keep asking myself, 'who are the terrorists?'. My only answer is that this has to be a conspiracy funded/planned by the world bankers to destroy the constitution."
(Really. That's what I wrote.)
I had learned a little about the globalists from my neighbor Zak, who was a full-blown, anti-government anarchist.
Shortly after, I read the book "Rule by Secrecy" by Jim Marrs and then a couple months later I was in Afghanistan flying medical rescue missions with a very heavy heart.
Three long years went by and then "Loose Change" came out in 2005. I was totally blown away. They had finally done it. I remember watching it jumping up and down screaming 'YEAH!'
Soon after that I found Infowars where I watched "Freedom to Fascism" which is where I first heard about Ron Paul.
When I heard in early 2007 that Ron Paul was running for president, I was completely addicted to Youtube and the Daily Paul and Google News, which has led me to study finance and socio/economic theory.
Thanks to Peter Schiff, I still get my fix of free market rhetoric 3 times a week packaged in the shiny wrapper of the MSM.
Anyhow, there will always be two sides debating about whether or not 9-11 was an inside job.
The real question is, can YOU choose a side? =)
Concerning Loose Change
http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html
Nice hit piece on Dylan
Nice hit piece on Dylan Avery, one the few Americans asking legitimate questions and putting forth alternatives to the LIES that are being force fed in the MSM. Loose Change to me has many inconsistencies, is reaching on some things is down right wrong on others but at least it has the courage to get us thinking about some alternatives.
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
"charred bodies"
that article states that "charred bodies" were found at the Pentagon. Any report of that available, besides bodies of the "employees" of the Pentagon.
"hundreds of people cleaned up airplane parts and charred bodies"
Charred bodies from the "plane wreckage"?
For your viewing pleasure!
http://rattube.com/blog1/2008/12/08/wtc7-nist-finally-admits...
911 Truth: The Bogus NIST Report & The Lingering Questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBZTsa6j0Ag&feature=channel_page
John Gross (NIST) denies (Lies) existence of molten metal at UT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqf5tL887o
9/11 Truth: What Happened to Building 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4&feature=channel
Collapse Footage WTC7 from multiple angles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o0o1yXkGV8&feature=channel
ZERO.Investigation.Into.911
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2296490368603788739
911 Science vs. Conspiracy Theories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PawC4u1U7k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG6i6WBHM3U&feature=related
Is the Media lying about 9/11/2001?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PZ1yn6r-c&feature=channel_page
9/11 Blueprint for Truth presented by Architect Richard Gage, AIA
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032...
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
A better question is "Why don't you voice your doubts?"
The powers that be control conversations much more than they prove things.
Getting people to voice their doubts is the 'magic bullet' to change.
Until then, we must compete with a media presence of our own...and not some 3-mile transmitter or some internet radio show...real media.
I haven't belleved anything
I haven't belleved anything the feds have said since Ruby Ridge. For me, that was the end of any credibility at all on their part.
Pat
BOHICA!!
Pat
BOHICA!!
So 100% lies now?
Ok, so Janet Reno f_d up in the nineties, and now, what, scientists and engineers are no longer trustworthy? You'll have to elaborate on this.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
100%? Maybe, maybe not, but
100%? Maybe, maybe not, but they lie so much that I sure won't take anything they say at face value. It's certalinly not only the FBI, look the president and his BS about the SPP, the NAU, the endless lies about Iraq, the unlikely explanations for the collapse of the twin towers, the list goes on and on.
Pat
BOHICA!!
Pat
BOHICA!!
You are like the
guy who pushes the "climate warming" agenda basing your info on gevernment paid Scientists and Engineers. Forgetting that there are a whole lotta independent Scientists and Engineers who provide us with evidence to the contrary.
Can I call you Al Gore?
"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERLtsBIqDg
Hannity and O'Reilly are on... your missing it Brian!
AL GORE - Bill your hours someplace else please.
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
JKap....86theFed...others....I admire your perseverance.
I have done hundreds of hours of research into this event,since 9/12/01.
You obviously have as well.
You should start to see rhino's game by now. He/she/it, purposefully remains on the fence, and will lure you into maddening circular arguments.
He/she/it likes to play the "I'm still not convinced" game,so that the more attention they can get,the better. It is an attention thing,nothing else.
Others will remain focused on one particular element,and refuse to look at the bigger picture of problem,reaction,solution.
I know it must be frustrating for you and 86 and others,to have invested so much time and effort bringing forth information,to still not spark ANY understanding of the reasons for this event.
I'm sure it feels like beating your head against a brick wall.
I say,screw 'em...
Let them find out the hard way,when another false flag event happens. They will remember your words and efforts,and they will sting like acid,because they did not listen to you and prepare accordingly.
I know the feeling of wanting to awaken others that have the common bond of Ron Paul. But,the truth is,some of us are not on the same side regardless of affiliation.
I don't want to tell you what to do with your time,but you can see that some of the efforts here have been fruitless.
I focus on loved ones,and those that have the ability to see the larger agenda at play.
We can't awaken everyone,and there comes a point where you have to make sure that things are in order in your camp. The others will have to be left in the trenches,sucking their thumbs,while we move on.
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
You Are Right, Jeff ...
...tell the truth when the occasion permits, without fearing, nor coveting, the consequences... let the chips fall and move on.
Nice Thread, JKap
Thanks..Way to sum it up LibBerte
..It's easy to get sucked into arguments with these types. I must focus my energy elsewhere.
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Outside The Wall
"... focus on loved ones,and those that have the ability to see the larger agenda at play."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV-HlBCmnDY
Just a few reasons why the official story is ridiculous
1. 23 Warning were officially sent to the US warning of the coming attacks from 11 foreign governments, many specifically mentioning the use of planes and symbolic urban targets.
2. Two weeks before 9/11 the head of security for the Twin Towers, Marvin Bush, brother of the President, shut down power and security to the Twin Towers and rewired the building for "Ethernet". The week before 9/11 he removed all bomb sniffer dogs.
3. 3 months before 911, in June of 2001 the U.S. government started a express visa program eliminating the need for any interview or background checks for visa’s. The program was only imitated in Saudi Arabia. Deputy Sec of State & PNAT member, Richard Armatage, rejected challenges by justice department regarding the terrorists that applied through the special program.
4. As a known terrorist, hijacker Mohamed Atta who trained at Wally Hillard's Huffman Aviation, was also enrolled in U.S. Air Force International Officers School of Aviation.
5. FBI Agent Harry Sanett, warned his superiors over 70 times that there was going to be an attack. FBI Agent Coleen Rowley wrote that the Minneapolis FBI agents became so frustrated that they began to joke that the FBI headquarters was becoming an “unwitting accomplice” to Osama bin Laden’s efforts to attack the U.S. FBI Agent Robert Reich resigned and sued FBI for blocking his efforts to investigate the terrorists.
6. On August 22, 2001, John O’Neill, the FBI’s leading authority on Al Qaeda, resigned from the FBI because of the repeated obstructions of his investigations into Al Quaeda. Following his resignation he was offered a job as head of security for the World Trade Center and was moved into his office in World Trade center on the day before 9/11. On the eve of 9/11 he tells his colleague Jerry Hower “We’re due for something big” – O’Neal was killed on 9/11.
7. Lt Cornel Anthony Shaffer associated with the military’s Able Danger Unit indicated that their unit identified Mohammed Atta and three other hijackers more than a year before the attack. Military lawyers blocked the unit from sharing the information with the FBI. Shafer was threatened by his superior that if he did not ignore Atta he would be fired.
8. Cibell Edmonds a translator covering 9/11 for the FBI, has had more government gag orders placed on her than any other person in the history of the U.S. She stated: “I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa’ida would attack cities with airplanes.. I gave the commission details of specific investigation files the specific dates the specific target information, the specific managers in charge of the investigation I gave them everything so that they could go back and follow up. This is not hearsay, these are things that are documented these things can be established very easily.”
9. Congressman Curt Weldon indicated that they have a government witness who has come forward who was ordered to destroy 2.5 Terabytes (to give you and idea of how much data that is it is HALF OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS)of data regarding hijacker Atta in summer of 2000.
10. On the morning of 9/11 the CIA just so happened to be running an alleged simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.
11. Newsweek learned that a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly cancelled their travel plans for the next morning of 9/11 for security reasons
12. Unprecedented Put trading options betting that United & American Airlines stock price would crash were placed just before 9/11. The number three man in the CIA, Buzzy Kongard, managed the bank that placed the suspicious put options on the airlines.
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
I've seen many of these "points" stated before
but where is the supporting evidence? How do you know this is all true?
As for your #2 point...ridiculous! "...shut down power and security to the Twin Towers and rewired the building for "Ethernet". Are you claiming that all the electricity was shut off so Ethernet could be installed in the entire building? How long did it take to rewire the place? Do you even know what "Ethernet" is?
h-daddy
Ethernet is...
Ethernet is a diabolical plan that includes thousands of engineers, scientists, and government officials. The old plan was something called "Arcnet".
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
A heightened WTC security alert was lifted on 9/6/2001...
The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed. [NY Newsday]
...there was a power down in WTC 2 the weekend before 9/11...
On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up... "Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower." [WingTV]
...Bush's cousin had a fortunate change of venue for a September 11 business conference...
President Bush's cousin should have been in the World Trade Centre when it was attacked. Jim Pierce, managing director of AON Corporations, had arranged a business conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower where its New York offices were based. But his group was too large so they decided to move across the street to the Millennium Hotel. [Annova]
...and it just so happens that Marvin was in New York on 9/11.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/625247/9_11_mysteries_power_down/
"The use of 'conspiracy theory' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent and other points of view, and information that might be in
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
Concerning the power down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IergOYj63oE
Concerning Marvin Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh8hErn2UZU&feature=related
Thanks. The people who say this sort of
stuff ought to just stop for a minute and think about it. A little common sense can go a long ways. Unfortunately, common sense isn't actually all that common.
h-daddy
That's freaky
"6. On August 22, 2001, John O’Neill, the FBI’s leading authority on Al Qaeda, resigned from the FBI because of the repeated obstructions of his investigations into Al Quaeda. Following his resignation he was offered a job as head of security for the World Trade Center and was moved into his office in World Trade center on the day before 9/11. On the eve of 9/11 he tells his colleague Jerry Hower “We’re due for something big” – O’Neal was killed on 9/11."
They set him up and lured him in to be killed. I bet they put on quite the show when offering him his "new job" and making sure he was hired and in the building by that date.
Well surely
the superpower with the mightiest military in the history of the world can be brought to its knees, its citizens forced to give up basic rights and groveling in fear, all because of a small group of about 100 or maybe up to 1000 or so yahoos hanging out in deserts and caves (and under your bed too) conspiring against us because they hate our freedoms and coordinating it all from laptops.
And even though we caught the #2 guy like...14 times now...we just can't seem to find the mastermind..even with all this technology, like being able to see clearly from space down to about 1 meter anywhere on the planet, tapping all the phones, scanning emails, and tracing electronic money transfers; Man they are sneaky. And they seem to have an unlimited money supply although it's not really worth it to follow the money trail.
Forget about Russia or China - it's not like they could do real damage to us; we've got to worry more about these stateless spectres that seem to follow us around and show up in other countries after we invade them. I'm sure if we invaded Finland, that they'd follow us there too. They seem to be able to go anywhere even though there are so few of them and everybody is supposedly looking for them.
And by the way, everyone knows that only the likes of Commies, Nazis and Muslims are involved in conspiracies...Americans would NEVER do that.. we're the GOOD guys! So if you continue to hold on to some laughable theory that an American could ever be involved in a conspiracy, I suggest you fix that leak in your tin foil hat and get back to drinking your kool-aid and chasing UFO's.
Ok, I'll stop now. The whole thing just gives me cognitive dissonance.
My suspision began with the goofy behavior of
our Commander in Chief in the Florida elementry school. Watch Fairenheit 9-11 a couple of times, and his behavior was undeniably questionable. Just a coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. Then comes the irrational response from the greatest military force on the planet. No scrambled planes, no interception, even over the Washington D.C. When golfer Payne Stewart's private jet was off course in Florida for only 10 minutes, military planes were scrambled and made visual contact within another 10 minutes. These commercial airlines with constant radar control were off course for almost an hour. This was starting to get a little more than interesting. Then, the perfect fall of the twin towers, which had just previously changed ownership because the Port Authority couldn't get a permit approved to condemn the buildings for a planned re-build. The new owner, Fred Silverman, employed a security firm that had on it's board, of all people, a Bush cousin. Coicindence? Maybe, maybe not. Mr. Silverman added a brand new insurance policy rider to the building complex, called "terrorist risk" just months prior to the attack. By all accounts, he was well compensated for his participation. I think it is pretty well documented that all Isreali firms were evacuated on that day. Then comes Bldg. # 7, wasn't even hit by anything, yet it goes down in perfect manner. It housed several offices of importance to the Wall St. NeoCon groups, such as Rudy's internal securtiy office.....what a joke! Then, one must question the Pentagon attack. This whole thing could be put to rest IF one photograph could be produced that showed a commercial airliner slamming into the Pentagon. That shouldn't be too hard, should it. Don't show me a little ball of fire, and call that a commercial airliner. The Pentagon is the most heavily secured building in the world. They have 24 hour cameras wathching the grass grow. There is even 24/7 satellite coverage of the building and grounds, yet NO picture of the commercial airliner ANYWHERE in the vacinity. The approach alone would have taken 5 minutes to zero in on the target and decend to the hit, yet NO photo. And then in the rubble of the twin towers, our guys "find" the paper passport of one of the suspected pilots?!? Give me a break! I can't believe anybody believes this bull. Oh yeah, and then Bush doesn't even want to "investigate" the issue. His exact comment was, "We know who did it, there's no reason to form a commission". Wow, how amazing. It stinks to the high Heavens, and the Allmighty will set thing right at some point, but we Americans have lost our will to rise up because the government has succeeded in making us all dependent on them. Too bad.
alan laney
Mulish defiance of reason
The mulish defiance of reason we see from the likes of rhino, et.al render them at this point utterly and painfully boring and predictable. These types may in fact profess a commitment to liberty, but their obstinance on this subject reveals ultimately their uselessness in that cause.