Submitted by OpenRevolt on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 20:47.
There aren't a lot of jobs left in the US -- especially ones paying above min wage.
That makes these jobs a valuable asset because these people will be put out of work and immediately start sucking money out of the Government.
We live in a country where most small businesses will fail and be wiped out unless they have strong foreign backing. It's not the American Dream of the past.
A lot of people say corporations should be able to run however they please and while I agree in spirit, the reality is that most Corporations have declared war against America and the American worker.
Thus, I don't believe CEO's, owners, etc of such companies have any rights.
Look at how much the military industrial complex, the oil industry, etc, etc has been sucking out of us and left us dry with their wars, illegal immigration, made-in-china crap, etc, etc. We don't have many if any alternatives and they fixed the system that way in advance.
I think we are at the point where we need to start breaking up these companies and regulating the sketchy ones because if we don't they are going to destroy what's left of the US.
Don't forget to mention H-1B visas, which companies abuse and use to hire overseas cheap labor, and can avoid hiring U.S. citizen workers. I used to know someone who worked at a U.S. based company that did this sort of thing, the boss specifically told the HR lady to pass over anyone from the U.S. who applied, even if they did give them an interview, there'd never be any chance they'd hire the American worker, they'd make up some excuse to not hire them. And not long ago, Bill Gates called for unlimited H-1B visas. If that happened, the fraud and abuse of the H-1B visa system would be through the roof. Here are some links that will tell you more
If I own a company and my job is to earn a profit for the shareholders, I will hire the man/woman who will work for me at the least expense. The problem isn't the business owner, the problem is the government "tinkering" with money and markets.
—
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Submitted by OpenRevolt on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 22:00.
If every company did that then America would collapse (ie like it is now).
How about all Americans refuse your product and choose a cheap Chinese brand?
You'd be out of business fast.
I and many other Americans would even support Gov intervention at this point where you would be unable to sell to Americans unless you employed only Americans. I have no problem with your company being crushed an wiped out by government regulation because you want to be cheap.
Blame the government for screwing with things, not me. Prior to 1913, this wouldn't have been necessary. I'm not going to become an American social welfare program.
A cheap Chinese brand? You are already buying cheap Chinese brands. Americans have made their choice. They like cheap things but want to get paid big bucks. It doesn't work that way.
I suspect you'd go crawling to the government's teat for a lot less than this.
—
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
I agree with you, the U.S. would collapse and eventually cease to exist if U.S. based companies had complete freedom to indefinitely discriminate against U.S. based workers and never hire a single one of them ever again, and instead hire from China or whatever other foreign country where people would work far below what any U.S. citizen would work for. Heck, there'd be so many U.S. citizens ready for revolution if that happened and they all got fired if they didn't accept wages that were only a small fraction of what they used to make(for instance a U.S. citizen high tech worker making 40k a year being forced to accept a job for 10k a year or else be replaced by a foreign worker who will work that cheap), it wouldn't be funny.But why even offer that kind of paycut to an American worker, because the foreign workers are always more exploitable than that American workers are, and can be used and abused, whereas an american worker will usually not put up with too much abuse.
Many workers in China make 6 cents an hour(not the high tech workers there, but still, try finding anyone in the U.S. who will work for 6 cents an hour, not even illegal aliens presently here will work anywhere near that cheap). I know it would be a dream come true for greedy unscrupulous companies who could care less about their fellow U.S. citizens, to be able to fire all their U.S. workers and instead hire cheap exploitable slave-like foreign labor for a small fraction of the price, and not just in the high tech sector, but all jobs sectors in the U.S..
We might not want complete freedom, but there are those who do(or seem to). And, how much is the right amount of freedom? Seems to be a common argument among RP supporters, those who want way more freedom than most of us are comfortable with(anarchist type libertarians for example), and those who want freedom, but not taken to extremes(most of the rest of us).
And what do you feel is the source of outsourcing?
Submitted by elrococco on Fri, 12/12/2008 - 10:55.
on your heart strings for the auto industry, please read The Alpha Strategy by John Pugsley. In that book you'l find clear explanations as to how you have been duped in to supporting your own demise by supporting government intervention in the free market.
"The House-passed bipartisan legislation protects taxpayers,
Right out the gate, she hits us with this whammy. As if a bailout of the automobile makers somehow actually protects taxpayers! Ha ha ha!
preserves environmental standards
See what I mean? She's such a card! That's funny, Nancy! Declaring that bailing out companies is what preserves environmental standards -- quite the belly laugh, there!
and places tough accountability measures on the auto companies to help ensure their long term viability and competitiveness.
Oh, the tears in my eyes from laughing are making it hard for me to read the rest of her statement! Yes, accountability, Nancy! Just like the accountability we are stringently holding bankers to! My, aren't their feet to the fire, eh?!? Ha ha ha ha!
The House-passed bill demanded deep concessions from all parties -- the executives, shareholders and the union.
Okay, in that list of those making concessions, she forgot to include: the American taxpayers. But her delivery is so spot-on, that I'll just overlook that unimportant little tidbit!
“Senate Republicans’ refusal to support the bipartisan legislation passed by the House and negotiated in good faith with the White House, the Senate and the automakers is irresponsible
OH, THAT DID IT! I'm about to pee my pants, I'm laughing so hard. Ha ha, Nancy says that the Senate Republicans are the irresponsible ones -- not the people who run their businesses into the ground, but those who say we shouldn't rob from Peter in order to pay Paul. My sides are achin' I'm cracking up so hard!
...is irresponsible, especially at a time of economic hardship. The consequences of the Senate Republicans’ failure to act could be devastating to our economy,
She just delivers 'em one right after the other, in rapid-fire delivery! Oh, you Nancy! She even jibed senators by implying they "failed to act" when they just "failed to act as Nancy wanted them to act." She doesn't miss a beat!
All of the preceding was just the warm-up; now, here comes the biggest punchline:
detrimental to workers, and destructive to the American automobile industry unless the President immediately directs Secretary Paulson to explore other short-term financial assistance options, including TARP and those available to the Federal Reserve. That is the only viable option available at this time."
Get it??? If Congress doesn't behave properly, we'll just have the President (is he still around?) take charge of the situation. Like when kids are misbehaving in the back seat of the car, and the dad turns around and gruffly warns, "Don't make me come back there!" But we all know dad is all bark and no bite these days, and the actual situation will be handled by someone(s) else. As if "dad" or these "someone else"es could really solve the problem! Ha ha ha ha!!!....
what about the passage of the strictest emission standards ever for trucks and buses in California. In the face of a depression, and a debt of 50 Billion dollars, California is going to raise these standards, thereby raising taxes on every truck and bus in that state.
Submitted by Tessie101 on Fri, 12/12/2008 - 10:09.
Instead of renegotiating contracts, and doing what was right, they chose to keep all those employees tied to higher wages that the industry can no longer sustain. When businesses slow down, or can no longer afford to pay workers they must start letting them go, and make drastic changes in order to survive, until the storm is over, if that happens. The contracts these unions have with the Big 3 are simply way out of hand. One needs to remember that a lot of these employees have been sitting at home collecting a full paycheck because it is cheaper for the Big 3 to do that instead of having them work and make cars that are not selling. In my opinion the Big 3 should have told the unions a year ago that they were going under, and gave them a time line to renegotiate contracts, and the Union should have reduced wages to match other car makers.
needs an overhaul. We need to reduce corporate/management salaries to be more in line with the workers and then use the excess cash to self finance as much as possible. This would let any company ride out the storm and create more unity. Right now some of the Corporate Elite make 400 to 4000 times the avg worker. That's ridiculous plain and simple.
"New opinions often appear first as jokes and fancies, then as blasphemies and treason, then as questions open to discussion, and finally as established truths."
—
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
Submitted by Tessie101 on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 18:48.
Do you believe an owner of a small company should make the same wages as those he employs? If you do, you have never owned a business, or have ever been in management. More responsibility equals more consequences, and also equals higher wages for the risks involved.
I do say the higher ups at these auto makers should be fired period.
Submitted by Tessie101 on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 18:13.
Where in the Constitution does it give any government official the right to spend tax payers money to bail out poorly run companies that deserve to go under because they have over spent, and gave to much to their managment staff, and union employees? If a small business fails I don't see the government bailing them out to save the jobs of the 10 - 20 employees they have, most companies downsize, or end up closing their doors.
Submitted by liberty4us on Fri, 12/12/2008 - 15:53.
I don't care how much somebody makes. If someone is willing to pay it then good for them. But when that can no longer be sustained like the Beg 3 then they will be forced to make cuts or go out of business and lose the paycheck. That is their problem.
Your thoughts to limit how much someone can earn is flat out socialist? Get off the envy train!
—
_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now
You should care how much somebody makes. Because in a phony economy what someone is willing to pay is also phony. The difference between what the executives are making and what the workers are making is much to distorted. Once again if all companies ran themselves somewhat like the NFL things would go a lot smoother. It's simple. Open the books. Show the numbers. So much of the profit must be paid to the employees. Not just upper management. Capitalism does not have to be one man trying to screw everyone else to get as rich as possible. Besides when these men become so enormously wealthy it leads to bad things. Evil things.
In the end I think the only way capitalism will work is to limit the accumulation of profit for any one entity. Be it an individual or corporation. While not ever restricting the right to collect profit there has to be a limit to where it becomes a disadvantage to hoard money past a certain amount.
Yes they do. As long as it's not federal government. State Government could. No one told the NFL to open their books. The owners realized it was the only way to have peace and stability. As soon as all major companies realize this the better.
Ron Paul is anti big FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. He is not anti government at the state level.
Submitted by e_goldstein on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 19:17.
subsidizing the nation of distorted?
sorry, had to say it.
—
--------------------------------
"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
----------------------------
Glad it didn't pass but...
There aren't a lot of jobs left in the US -- especially ones paying above min wage.
That makes these jobs a valuable asset because these people will be put out of work and immediately start sucking money out of the Government.
We live in a country where most small businesses will fail and be wiped out unless they have strong foreign backing. It's not the American Dream of the past.
A lot of people say corporations should be able to run however they please and while I agree in spirit, the reality is that most Corporations have declared war against America and the American worker.
Thus, I don't believe CEO's, owners, etc of such companies have any rights.
Look at how much the military industrial complex, the oil industry, etc, etc has been sucking out of us and left us dry with their wars, illegal immigration, made-in-china crap, etc, etc. We don't have many if any alternatives and they fixed the system that way in advance.
I think we are at the point where we need to start breaking up these companies and regulating the sketchy ones because if we don't they are going to destroy what's left of the US.
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
Don't forget to mention H-1B
Don't forget to mention H-1B visas, which companies abuse and use to hire overseas cheap labor, and can avoid hiring U.S. citizen workers. I used to know someone who worked at a U.S. based company that did this sort of thing, the boss specifically told the HR lady to pass over anyone from the U.S. who applied, even if they did give them an interview, there'd never be any chance they'd hire the American worker, they'd make up some excuse to not hire them. And not long ago, Bill Gates called for unlimited H-1B visas. If that happened, the fraud and abuse of the H-1B visa system would be through the roof. Here are some links that will tell you more
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2007/...
http://www.baselinemag.com/index2.php?option=content&task=vi...
http://programmersguild.blogspot.com/2007/11/lou-dobbs-chall...
Yup, I remember seeing that on Lou Dobbs
We have double the amount of tech graduates to jobs available and they are giving them all to foreigners.
Microsoft
- crappy OS
- crappy Word
- crappy Encarta
- crappy Internet Explorer
- crappy MSN
crappy everything!
Bill Gates probably only was allowed to do what he did because he is such a strong supporter of the NWO.
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
Should the government step in and force private business to
hire Americans?
If I own a company and my job is to earn a profit for the shareholders, I will hire the man/woman who will work for me at the least expense. The problem isn't the business owner, the problem is the government "tinkering" with money and markets.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
That's selfish and stupid thinking
If every company did that then America would collapse (ie like it is now).
How about all Americans refuse your product and choose a cheap Chinese brand?
You'd be out of business fast.
I and many other Americans would even support Gov intervention at this point where you would be unable to sell to Americans unless you employed only Americans. I have no problem with your company being crushed an wiped out by government regulation because you want to be cheap.
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
Capitalism is not for the weak-hearted.
Blame the government for screwing with things, not me. Prior to 1913, this wouldn't have been necessary. I'm not going to become an American social welfare program.
A cheap Chinese brand? You are already buying cheap Chinese brands. Americans have made their choice. They like cheap things but want to get paid big bucks. It doesn't work that way.
I suspect you'd go crawling to the government's teat for a lot less than this.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
.
.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
.
.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
I agree with you, the U.S.
I agree with you, the U.S. would collapse and eventually cease to exist if U.S. based companies had complete freedom to indefinitely discriminate against U.S. based workers and never hire a single one of them ever again, and instead hire from China or whatever other foreign country where people would work far below what any U.S. citizen would work for. Heck, there'd be so many U.S. citizens ready for revolution if that happened and they all got fired if they didn't accept wages that were only a small fraction of what they used to make(for instance a U.S. citizen high tech worker making 40k a year being forced to accept a job for 10k a year or else be replaced by a foreign worker who will work that cheap), it wouldn't be funny.But why even offer that kind of paycut to an American worker, because the foreign workers are always more exploitable than that American workers are, and can be used and abused, whereas an american worker will usually not put up with too much abuse.
Many workers in China make 6 cents an hour(not the high tech workers there, but still, try finding anyone in the U.S. who will work for 6 cents an hour, not even illegal aliens presently here will work anywhere near that cheap). I know it would be a dream come true for greedy unscrupulous companies who could care less about their fellow U.S. citizens, to be able to fire all their U.S. workers and instead hire cheap exploitable slave-like foreign labor for a small fraction of the price, and not just in the high tech sector, but all jobs sectors in the U.S..
Oh, for godsake, we wouldn't want "complete freedom"!
You might want to look at the source of outsourcing before you cry foul.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
We might not want complete
We might not want complete freedom, but there are those who do(or seem to). And, how much is the right amount of freedom? Seems to be a common argument among RP supporters, those who want way more freedom than most of us are comfortable with(anarchist type libertarians for example), and those who want freedom, but not taken to extremes(most of the rest of us).
And what do you feel is the source of outsourcing?
For all of you feeling the pull...
on your heart strings for the auto industry, please read The Alpha Strategy by John Pugsley. In that book you'l find clear explanations as to how you have been duped in to supporting your own demise by supporting government intervention in the free market.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Not Dead...Just on Hold
Michigan Electoral College
Democrat Party List
www.michigandems.com/newsroom.php?id=110
Recognize any names?
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Oh, this is priceless. Have you read Nancy Pelosi's midnight statement about the Senate's refusal to pass the automobile bailout?
Excerpt (emphases and comments mine):
Right out the gate, she hits us with this whammy. As if a bailout of the automobile makers somehow actually protects taxpayers! Ha ha ha!
See what I mean? She's such a card! That's funny, Nancy! Declaring that bailing out companies is what preserves environmental standards -- quite the belly laugh, there!
Oh, the tears in my eyes from laughing are making it hard for me to read the rest of her statement! Yes, accountability, Nancy! Just like the accountability we are stringently holding bankers to! My, aren't their feet to the fire, eh?!? Ha ha ha ha!
Okay, in that list of those making concessions, she forgot to include: the American taxpayers. But her delivery is so spot-on, that I'll just overlook that unimportant little tidbit!
OH, THAT DID IT! I'm about to pee my pants, I'm laughing so hard. Ha ha, Nancy says that the Senate Republicans are the irresponsible ones -- not the people who run their businesses into the ground, but those who say we shouldn't rob from Peter in order to pay Paul. My sides are achin' I'm cracking up so hard!
She just delivers 'em one right after the other, in rapid-fire delivery! Oh, you Nancy! She even jibed senators by implying they "failed to act" when they just "failed to act as Nancy wanted them to act." She doesn't miss a beat!
All of the preceding was just the warm-up; now, here comes the biggest punchline:
Get it??? If Congress doesn't behave properly, we'll just have the President (is he still around?) take charge of the situation. Like when kids are misbehaving in the back seat of the car, and the dad turns around and gruffly warns, "Don't make me come back there!" But we all know dad is all bark and no bite these days, and the actual situation will be handled by someone(s) else. As if "dad" or these "someone else"es could really solve the problem! Ha ha ha ha!!!....
...hey, how come you guys aren't laughing?
If this is terrible for the auto industry,
what about the passage of the strictest emission standards ever for trucks and buses in California. In the face of a depression, and a debt of 50 Billion dollars, California is going to raise these standards, thereby raising taxes on every truck and bus in that state.
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/12/12/2208058-california-...
Thanks fanofwalt for Pelosi rant.
Reminds me of a song......
Tell me lies!
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
Bush may throw a TARP over it.
Bloomberg just said that Bush and Paulson are considering taking bailout money for the UAW, er, I mean GM, out of the TARP slush fund.
The Union leaders and the Big 3 were at fault here...
Instead of renegotiating contracts, and doing what was right, they chose to keep all those employees tied to higher wages that the industry can no longer sustain. When businesses slow down, or can no longer afford to pay workers they must start letting them go, and make drastic changes in order to survive, until the storm is over, if that happens. The contracts these unions have with the Big 3 are simply way out of hand. One needs to remember that a lot of these employees have been sitting at home collecting a full paycheck because it is cheaper for the Big 3 to do that instead of having them work and make cars that are not selling. In my opinion the Big 3 should have told the unions a year ago that they were going under, and gave them a time line to renegotiate contracts, and the Union should have reduced wages to match other car makers.
Wrong... Our complete corporate structure throughout america
needs an overhaul. We need to reduce corporate/management salaries to be more in line with the workers and then use the excess cash to self finance as much as possible. This would let any company ride out the storm and create more unity. Right now some of the Corporate Elite make 400 to 4000 times the avg worker. That's ridiculous plain and simple.
"New opinions often appear first as jokes and fancies, then as blasphemies and treason, then as questions open to discussion, and finally as established truths."
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
I believe you are a Socialist..
Do you believe an owner of a small company should make the same wages as those he employs? If you do, you have never owned a business, or have ever been in management. More responsibility equals more consequences, and also equals higher wages for the risks involved.
I do say the higher ups at these auto makers should be fired period.
I am not wrong...
Where in the Constitution does it give any government official the right to spend tax payers money to bail out poorly run companies that deserve to go under because they have over spent, and gave to much to their managment staff, and union employees? If a small business fails I don't see the government bailing them out to save the jobs of the 10 - 20 employees they have, most companies downsize, or end up closing their doors.
Are you a Socialist?
I don't care how much somebody makes. If someone is willing to pay it then good for them. But when that can no longer be sustained like the Beg 3 then they will be forced to make cuts or go out of business and lose the paycheck. That is their problem.
Your thoughts to limit how much someone can earn is flat out socialist? Get off the envy train!
_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now
BullS##t
You should care how much somebody makes. Because in a phony economy what someone is willing to pay is also phony. The difference between what the executives are making and what the workers are making is much to distorted. Once again if all companies ran themselves somewhat like the NFL things would go a lot smoother. It's simple. Open the books. Show the numbers. So much of the profit must be paid to the employees. Not just upper management. Capitalism does not have to be one man trying to screw everyone else to get as rich as possible. Besides when these men become so enormously wealthy it leads to bad things. Evil things.
In the end I think the only way capitalism will work is to limit the accumulation of profit for any one entity. Be it an individual or corporation. While not ever restricting the right to collect profit there has to be a limit to where it becomes a disadvantage to hoard money past a certain amount.
No one has any business
No one has any business telling private businesses what they should pay their employees! What is this Leftist nonsense?
Why aren't you posting this stuff on CommonDreams.org, instead of on a Ron Paul site?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
So you endorse slavery?
Yes they do. As long as it's not federal government. State Government could. No one told the NFL to open their books. The owners realized it was the only way to have peace and stability. As soon as all major companies realize this the better.
Ron Paul is anti big FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. He is not anti government at the state level.
"The difference between what the executives are making and what
the workers are making is much to distorted."
The workers can go work somewhere more equitable. Nobody is chaining them to their "cubies".
They can also buy shares in the company and vote on CEO remuneration.
Choices...
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Why are American workers
subsidizing the nation of distorted?
sorry, had to say it.
--------------------------------
"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
----------------------------
Good point.
I stand humbled.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
IamVoting4RonPaul...
Thank you, you are one of the few that actually get it.
Thanks Tessie.
Ron taughted me goodly.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!