Once the Fed is Ended then what?
People who want to End the Fed are under a very big tent. We all agree the Federal Reserve should be eliminated as a private bank, but the aftermath of that decision is still undecided.
1) There are followers of LaRouche that say we should have a Roosevelt inspired "New Deal" and socialize the banks and businesses to get America in the right direction. I've found no historical basis for this solution.
2) There are people who see a possibility in making the Federal Reserve a government institution that contributes interest earned back to the country.
The historical basis of this is found in the colonial scrip of the early colonialists and the resulting punishment of the Currency Act of 1764: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Act
Also this solution is explained in "Web of Debt" by Ellen Thomas.
3) And there are also people who don't think the government should meddle at all in the financial affairs of Americans. Americans should only trade in gold and Silver or other commodities. Some people think the coinage act of 1792 is the historical basis for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792
My thought is the coinage act was just a way to assign values and people who are supposed to assign values to coins used in currency. The coinage act never took away the power of Congress to determine the value of money, it just assigned a value to that currency.
Anyone able to show that currency is not supposed to be monitored by the congress?
I made the front page!
Yay! An honest debate about this is what I really got. Thanks to everyone. Looks like alot of people are getting that local 'scrip' is the way to survive a depression, and might be the way to save our currency system:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/end_the_fed_160.html
THE 39 END THE FED RALLIES held across America recently inspired
two Milwaukee neighborhoods to create their own local currency....This money is scrip, which has a long and noble history.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0%2C8599%2C1865467...
Alternative Currencies Grow in Popularity
By Judith D. Schwartz Sunday, Dec. 14,
Most of us take for granted that those rectangular green slips of paper we keep in our wallets are inviolable: the physical embodiment of value. But alternative forms of money have a long history, and appear to be growing in popularity.
(for you metalbugs out there, there's hope for that system too: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45182 )
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
Where in the Constitution
Where in the Constitution does it say they can coin copper? It says gold and silver. Copper was just a way to debase the currency.
grant
Actually, in terms of
Actually, in terms of Constitutional money, the Founders were well aware and accepted small cents in copper. The reason for that was obvious, it was better to use small denominations in base metals instead of dividing silver into such small coinage which would not be practical. During the early years of the Republic, all types of coins from all countries were exchanged in this country from the time the Constitution was ratified until 1858. Thus copper coins from other countries were readily accepted as money. Copper cents were minted by this country as well and Congress regulated the amount of copper that made up small cents, half cents and large cents.
http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre (1886-1912)
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
LaRouche is a complete whack job.
Is he out of jail on those credit card fraud charges yet?
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
What I think will
happen is the Fed and the government will be in such bad shape the IMF and UN will walk in and tell how it is going to be.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
I favor local currencies
I favor local currencies based on gold and silver. They should be minted by a state assay office and mint, for the owner of the metal, to guarantee value. If they either contain a full value of the metal or are fully redeemable for the metal, they should be accepted anywhere. With gold at the present valuation, you could pretty easily carry enough in your pocket to buy a large appliance or even a car.
Pat
BOHICA!!
Pat
BOHICA!!
Honest Money
Article I, Section 8, US Constitution;
"The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures..."
What does this mean? The first part, "to coin money" is straightforward. They can take any commodity and affix a stamp or insignia on it to indicate that it conforms with a set of standard weights and measures. Practically, this means the authority to mint gold, silver, and copper coins in recognized weights and measures.
The second part," regulate the Value therof, and of foreign coin" is where the Feds screwed us. To "coin money" meant to take a round of known weight and purity of gold, silver, or copper and impress a seal upon it that would "certify" the weight and purity. to "regulate the value therof" at the time literally meant "to make regular", in other words, to insure uniformity.
This is not what "regulate" has come to mean today. Because "regulate" now legally means "do whatever we want with", it in essence invalidates the implicit duty deriving from the first part. This should be struck down by amendment.
The congress should have the power only to strike rounds of known weight and purity of gold, silver, or copper with its stamp, period. It additionally should accept any and all lawful moneys in payment of duties and imposts. Nowhere in this section do I read the authority to empower a private cartel to print money, nor does it authorize nor forbid any state or other entity from coining lawful money (gold and silver).
The Liberty Guys
Promoting Liberty, Peace, and Free Enterprise
www.libertyguys.org
www.campaignforliberty.com
The Liberty Guys
Promoting Liberty, Peace, and Free Enterprise
www.libertyguys.org
www.campaignforliberty.com
These Are Not Local Currencies
Gold and silver are traded on the world market. Such coins would not keep wealth circulating locally unless the government outlawed trading coins from other jurisdictions.
End the Fed
The Fed cannot become a government institution because it is a cartel. To do this would require nationalizing all the member banks.
We must abolish the Fed and replace it with nothing. The only function of the Fed is to create money out of nothing; that's it, and it's the very reason we must be rid of it.
We should return to non-fiat money, competing currencies, and interest rates determined by the market. Congress should be able to get money only from the Treasury.
But without the instant access to endless amounts of money, the government would have to be reduced drastically. Many departments would have to be abolished. The foreign occupations would have to end. Hundreds of thousands of government jobs would be lost. And many, many more major changes would occur.
The Fed would have to be phased-out. And one way to do so would be to allow competition to the system. We would also need congressmen to be willing to stop using the Fed.
...
"Talk all you can about all you know all of the time."
.
...
Enjoy www.freetalklive.com
I found the answer again
And it was again supplied by Ron Paul. Check out the "Free Competition in Currency Act": http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2007/cr121307h.htm
Before Ending the Fed we could make money free.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
stunned
All of the answers I took the time to read below think we need another govt run money. Really? Do you understand RP at all? Replace the IRS with nothing? Why, why, why, why, would you leave money in the hands of the govt to fail ONCE AGAIN? How about letting people and the market CHOOSE what currency will win out? Maybe it will be many types of currency, what's wrong with that?
Gold and Silver
are not suitable forms of currency unless the government mandates that they be stamped with its seal and used as a payment for taxes.
If you want a currency that conforms to voluntarism, there is only one option: a mutual credit system or LETS (Local Exchange Trading System).
For example, I grow apples and bring them to my local co-op. The co-op gives me credits which I can use to buy carrots grown by someone else. If I am a doctor and don't grow food, I can trade my services for credits to purchase food at the co-op.
Simple. Voluntary. Democratic. Local.
What if you are a nuclear physicist?
How about an astronaut or a virologist?
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Stop monetizing the debt and cut gov't programs. Decentralize!
"New opinions often appear first as jokes and fancies, then as blasphemies and treason, then as questions open to discussion, and finally as established truths."
"The use of 'Conspiracy Theorist' or 'Truther' as a derogatory -- as an epithet almost -- is something the propagandists have perfected over the decades, and it's a useful tool for eliminating articulate dissent."
The Fed doesn't need to be ended
It just needs to have its monopoly status broken up.
Look, Americans are a competitive bunch. You've got AL vs. NL in baseball, AFC vs. NFC in football, the (false) left/right paradigm in politics, rock vs. rap, country vs. disco, American Idol, Survivor, Ford vs. Chevy, Britney vs. Paris, and on and on and on...
My point is, competing currencies not only can work, we MUST have them. It's the only way to keep the public aware of what can happen if they don't pay attention to money.
Can you imagine an honest money system where public awareness of money takes precedence over the mundane topics I mentioned above? We wouldn't need a whole society of Ludwig von Mises's or Ron Pauls, we just need a system that will benefit people's natural tendency toward friendly competition.
The type of money you choose to use could be a personal statement (like the credit cards people get with their own customized pictures on them, only based on something real and tangible). It would become a natural conversation starter, and young people would dig it because it would make picking people up in bars much easier!:
He:
"Hey, can I buy you a drink?"
She:
"That depends on what kind of money you have."
He:
"I've got gold backed dollars, sponsored by the Humane Society."
She:
"Oh I looove puppies! Golden retrievers are my favorite! I'll have an apple martini!"
The Fed can go on printing its funny money out of thin air just based on the signatures of any suckers who fall for their scheme. It just wouldn't be worth squat.
************
http://www.pyrabang.com - the Patriot newsfeed machine that will take a huge bite out of Google's ad profits and put them in your pocket!
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
We still need to get rid of the FED
as they are part of the international banking cartel, why do you want to keep them other than your suggestion so that we could all have great pick-up lines?
If you reread what I wrote
You will realize that all I am saying is that the Fed and its corrupt practices will die of natural causes if put up against some honest competition. Competition would foster knowledge about fractional reserves, precious metals backing, etc. amongst the general public. If you get a few good pickup lines out of it, so much the better for you.
************
http://www.pyrabang.com - the Patriot newsfeed machine that will take a huge bite out of Google's ad profits and put them in your pocket!
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
Every dollar the FED prints
is tacked on to the national debt plus interest, it will take to long for it to shrivel up and die. I suggest we figure out a way to get Congress to do their job before its to late.
This fiat system is unsustainable and will crash. It is sad to watch this happen. We all here at DP have tried to get the word out and still do, but their matrix is pretty damn strong, anyways good luck with your ideas,at least we are all trying.
In a sense we're both right
It comes down to Public Money vs. Private Credit, as represented by U.S. Notes/Greenbacks, etc. (as championed by Ellen Brown in her book "Web of Debt") vs. Federal Reserve Notes (and previous to that private scrip issued by banks).
There are excellent discussions of this issue here. Interestingly enough, debt free U.S. Notes that were so famously championed by JFK were never formally pulled out of circulation. The author of the post I linked to asserts that you can still trade in U.S. Notes when you do your banking by properly endorsing your checks and referencing Title 12 USC ss411. It's a very interesting interpretation of the law.
When I say that the Fed doesn't necessarily need to ended, all I am saying is that their "private" status needs to become public knowledge. Then congress needs to have the balls to enact a law like Dr. Paul's "competition in currency act" and to also issue debt free U.S. Notes directly from the Treasury (as I said the power to do this is still there). If this were to happen alongside free competition in private currency, then the whole Fed scam would be exposed in huge way.
************
http://www.pyrabang.com - the Patriot newsfeed machine that will take a huge bite out of Google's ad profits and put them in your pocket!
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
The US Treasury should perform the task of the FED.
They should migrate the $USD back to the gold standard in some form.
Change the legal tender laws to accommodate the gold standard.
Try to convince the rest of the world to link their currencies to gold or the newly revived $USD via the Global Currency (Foriegn)Exchange Markets.
All kinds of good sound money ideas will come if we go back to linking our currencies to Gold and Silver.
The US Constitution Art. 1, Sec. 8, clearly gives Congress the authority: "To coin Money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."
I would say from that, that they are charged with monitoring the currency in several respects.
Not exactly.
The fed's task is to inflate the currency. That's what it was created to do.
The treasury's job is to deal with the fiscal matters of the executive branch of the federal government, and that's ALL.
The congress has the power to coin money, not the executive. The US Mint should resume coining gold and silver, and it should not be in any way involved with the treasury department or any other executive agency.
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
The fed does not need to end ...
If the federal government allowed competing currencies ...
It will self diversify over time ...
As it stands today ...
most transactions are electronic and can be completed instantaneously ...
The market will take care of the rest ...
We are living in wonderful times...
Not only is this possible, but it is inevitable within one generation.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Yeah right
A competing currency would be outlawed after another 9/11 attack or some BS legislation after they greased a few political palms.
We are really up against a near monolithic form of evil and control.
It will not surrender, and it will continue to fester unless it is completely destroyed.
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
We never had to destroy the English crown.
We broke off instead.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Dooooh!
I think you need to think that statement through....
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Kevin?
Did we?
Turns out we should have....
The trouble has always been that the crown and its close associates always skate while the people attack their puppet governments.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
It can fight all it wants ...
We will have free markets ...
It cannot be denied.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
It's funny
When you connect the corresponding connections in media, you realize that each media outlet is in collusion with corporations examples include Viacom,Disney, etc... All of these outlets saturate American society and hide the truth.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong" - Voltaire
" Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. " - George Washington
There are more things than the Fed that need to come to an end
The media needs to be held accountable for lying/brainwashing/propaganda.
Abused monopolies need to be busted up and broken apart.
Small business need to be invested in over big business.
All levels of the government, military and law enforcement need to be flushed clean and new (and hopefully moral) people installed/elected.
Citizen trust needs to be rebuilt brick by brick and it's going to take a long time.
If this does happen it will most likely be after Civil War 2 and if we fail to act then the World Bank will simply replace the Fed and the old bosses will have a new screen to hide behind -- and they will be more powerful than ever.
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643