Urban or Farm?
A couple of months ago I posted a question concerning my family moving to a farm. We are somewhat at a standstill, a family divided, if you will.
First of all I am married with three young children--ages 4 to 11. I am unemployed, but thankfully, we have closed on our family business and pocketed mid six figures. I am 42 and my wife is 36--both of us relatively young and very healthy.
We live in Jacksonville, Florida in a very economically and racially diverse, historic neighborhood that we absolutely love near the downtown. As a whole we don't care for Florida or Jax, but like I said, we love our very "community" oriented neighborhood. Lots of friends.
We are struggling with the idea of moving to the "land." We would surely lose the community that we enjoy here. Secondly, my wife and I have never lived off the land. I have been reading and studying everything that I can get my hands on concerning the farming "way" of life. Anything from Barbara Kingslover's book "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle," to other gardening books with such topics as "how to grow organic fruits and vegetables," and also reading all the farming magazines i can get my hands on such as "grit" and "Mother Earth News." So its definetly not for a lack of study that we would fail.
Having said all of that, we are leaning on staying in Jax, but in the back of my mind i'm thinking that's not the wise thing to do. We are concerned with the rising prices of food and energy, the possible collapase of the US economy, unrest in the cities, etc. I love the idea of simplicity, farming, self sufficiency, healthy homegrown food, the beauty of being rooted in the land.
I've found a few farms anywhere from 5 to 10 acres in Tennessee and North Carolina. A couple of properties are completey set up for organic gardening and raising livestock.
We would certainly entertain the idea of doing it with a couple of other families, buy 40 to 60 acres of land and build a community of like minded people. Would even consider trading acerage with another couple who have the ability to build.
Well, i would really appreciate any thoughts, ideas or different perspectives.
Grace & peace.
Neither.
Small town house with big backyard for growing.
And a greenhouse if not enough land.
Ella...
Greetings from right down the road in Tallahassee, I have been shopping around for a small "farm" for the past few months and plan to go look at one this weekend.
It has to be within a couple of hours from Tally, so that we can visit it on weekends and start planting permanent things like fruit trees, grapevines, asparagus, nut trees, etc. It has got to have a pond or two so that we can grow fish. There are pretty many of these within 3 hours of Tallahassee, mostly in south Georgia. They're usually 50-100 acres, for roughly $100-350K, but I'm betting they will be wiling to haggle as things get worse.
I realize that you can grow food on an acre as many have mentioned, but as many others have also mentioned, if the SHTF then I want to be nowhere near a city. I want some place to be able to retreat to.
I wouldn't want to be partners with anybody (also discussed here), but if I run across a big tract that I can't afford, perhaps we could split it and be independent neighbors. Let's keep in touch, along with anybody else interested. Contact me at "mitch at bugware dot com" if you like.
Thanks to all for the great comments and ideas.
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
-Steppenwolf 1969
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
"racially diverse" Jacksonville
"I've found a few farms anywhere from 5 to 10 acres in Tennessee and North Carolina."
Are these farms in "racially diverse" areas?
I would not want to live in
I would not want to live in a diverse area!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
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If You're Looking For A Farmette
If you're looking for an established homesite, you might want to take a look at our place in the beautiful Ozarks. We are at least an hour and a half from any large urban area. We have 28 acres, two ponds with fish, a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom renovated older home, a large, old barn, a greenhouse, good garden plot, and an established fruit orchard with pear, apple, peach, and cherry trees.
We have good, friendly neighbors and the neighbor across the road from us has horses and a live spring on his property. As we are getting older, we would like to sell and move closer to our son.
ozark farm
May I ask what your asking for your farm?
Ozark farm
We have decided to price our property at $200,000. Our next door neighbor just sold their home with 3 acres a few months ago for $125,000 so we think we're in the right price range.
Know yourselves and your priorities
You asked for advice; here's some from a city person who moved to the country about 10 years ago.
I still miss the city: restaurants, beaches, world-class shopping, people, capable assistants, business opportunities, culture, and vibes; it's what I enjoy. Even frequent traveling does not make up for having these things available when you simply want to go there.
I don't miss the traffic congestion, human congestion, and attitudes.
I don't really enjoy gardening, although I do enjoy the results, and the ability to simply walk outside and pick fresh ingredients for dinner. As someone who has in the past delegated those tasks I don't have time to do, I don't really enjoy the lack of qualified assistants (due to low local population and generally low-skill area) to run my household, from gardeners to maids to handymen to contractors.
I've found that rural living is not as friendly as I expected; people who live on large properties moved there to put lots of space between themselves and other people -- they tend to not get chummy with their neighbors unless it involves water rights (investigate these carefully), common roads, or constantly-barking, unleashed dogs (most people around here have large dogs that are given the run of the property and, sometimes, beyond.)
On the plus side: LOVE the quiet, being able to see the stars every night (no city lights to distract you), no traffic jams, being able to walk for a long time and rarely see other people, fresh air, clean water.
Here's the advice: think long and hard about the lifeSTYLE you prefer for you and your family. What do you LOVE to do every day? What is your ideal day like and how often can you live that ideal day? Do you homeschool your children? Do you eat out a lot, or love to eat at home? Do you rely on delivery of food or catalog orders (some places charge extra for rural delivery)? Where do you shop? What kind of people do you prefer to be around? Is high-tech important to you? Internet access? How self-sufficient are you?
You might check into sustainable communities.
Whatever you decide, make it your own decision; you are the ones that must live with it.
Land here is around $2,000.00 per acre...
In North Central Pennsylvania. When the new year rolls in and the economic turn down gets in full swing I have a hunch that homes and land will be pennies on the dollar. I say this because people won't have jobs and will be selling it for 1/8th of what they're asking now. They will need money to live. There will be great buying opportunities for land in 2009. I think the old Green Acres song sums it up best....
"Farm livin' is the life for me!"
All that being said you don't really own land in America unless you have a Land Patent and exercise Allodial Title.
go to www.TeamLaw.org
I grew up on a farm. Be
I grew up on a farm. Be prepared to never go on vacation ever again (if you have livestock). You must be a jack of all trades. Your equipment will always be breaking, you will be more mechanic than dirt farmer sometimes. It would probably be necessary to buy a welder and learn how to weld, again, the breaking of the equipment thing again. You will at the mercy of too much rain, and not enough rain. You will start praying either way, depending on the season.
But there is a great feeling to own your own land, and produce enough for your family by yourself.
Good luck with it, and keep us informed.
Oh, if you have a creek or a wet area like a small swampy area or a pond, the government will tell you what you can do and cannot do, they seem to think they own all the "wetlands".
I also grew up on a farm/ranch....a very large one.
It's difficult for me to envision that someone who doesn't have any experience with the rural life will really know what they're getting into. It is definitely an adventure, and can be a wonderful one if you are willing to put up with hardship and setbacks.
Expense is a big concern, to start with. If you have a lot of money, you will be able to get the tractor, implements, land, living space, animals, animal shelters, etc. If you don't have a large sum to outlay for these things, don't even think of raising row or grain crops. I like what a poster said earlier on this thread ... they live by the Amish and hire them to put up their hay, etc ...on shares. That is very very smart. So if you are looking for a small farm, it would be wise to locate somewhere where there are neighbors, etc. who will be willing to work with you on that.
You will need to use every reference you can ... neighbors, extension services, other ... to learn the knowledge you will have to have to be successful. Growing season? When plant? When/how harvest? Storage after harvest? Plant/animal disease and their treatments? What meds for what diseases? Can I treat an animal on my own, or do I need a vetrinarian? If I can treat an animal on my own, how do I do it? Can I personally give a shot, pull a calf, neuter a steer, bottle feed a calf, kill and butcher an animal? How DO I butcher an animal. How long do I let a steer hang before cutting up? Do I know the cuts of meat to divide an animal into? Do I have the sticktoitiveness to be there day after day, sometimes morning and nights, to take care of my animals? Do I have freezer space to preserve a year's worth of meat at a time? Vegetables, too .... or do I have the equipment/knowledge to can vegetables or meat?
Don't forget the vet costs, which can be astronomical. Also, do your research on how much pasture land in your area it will take to sustain cattle, or whatever animals you intend to have. How many acres per cow, etc. It is different in different parts of the country depending on rain levels,etc. Raising smaller units of animals are easier, ie chickens, rabbits, goats, sheep, or maybe even a hog or two.
If you plan to live off the land, prepare that that will be "your job". You will be growing and preserving food. If you plan to have another job, make sure someone in your family doesn't have another job, otherwise you won't have enough time in the day to do everything. Also, think about the things you will actually need money for, ie land taxes (hopefully not a land payment), vehicle taxes and fuel, clothing, fences, animal equipment and vet supplies, etc. etc. Make sure you somehow are going to have money for those things. It is going to be more expensive than you dreamed.
Also, it would be really good if you have spent some time getting familiar with the area you will be located in. For instance, (don't mean to hurt any feelings here, anyone), in some parts of the country the locals don't really take well to outsiders...."clannish" is the word. Someone told me about areas of Missouri in which this is true (no experience of my own to know if this is true). But I would definitely talk to other DPaulers in the area you are moving to, if you can, to scope out the lay of the land and the social climate.
hydroponic question
The concern was brought up that hydroponic gardening wasn't as nutritional as traditional gardening. Is there someone who can address this issue with any facts?
Ellaforlibery, There doesn't
Ellaforlibery, There doesn't seem to be any hard science on the nutritional value of hydroponics, but I can tell you from experience that my lettuce tastes fresh. I found this article that you might like to read; http://www.nsbdc.org/what/success/?successid=54
“A hydroponically grown [plant] will have a higher nutritional value because it is living in the perfect conditions and getting the correct amount of nutrients, and there is no breakdown where pathogens are allowed into the plant,” says Tom.
The Blounts plan to investigate the nutritional differences between regularly grown produce, organics and hydroponics.
Also, remember that soil loses some of it's minerals after a few crops. That is why plant rotation in the fields is needed as well as time for the soil to rest and rejuvenate. Hydroponics doesn't have this problem, plus no bugs!
“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero”. Voltaire-1729
www.4HUTS.com
“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero”. Voltaire-1729
www.4HUTS.com
If you can keep your hydroponic solution cool
and all the other parameters right,you can grow up to 5 times faster than soil. Micro nutrients can be added to hydroponics,just as they are in soil.
You are welcome to check out the tutorials section of our website if you are interested.
www.bihydro.com
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Google "Nutritional Value Hydroponics"
I know nothing from personal experience, but when someone brought this issue up earlier in this thread, I googled "Nutritional Value Hydroponics". It looked like to me (from just reading the titles of the links) that one said there was no evidence one way or the other, and then several said that hydroponics produced MORE nutritional value over other methods. So ... it's on my to-do list to read, research and explore further. So ... for what it's worth .... there's what I did/know ........ Anybody else?????
Probably depends
on whether or not you do it right. just like anything else.
Move to the Free State
http://www.freestateproject.com
http://NoOneButPaul.com
Maryland?
not such a hot idea. I know you're talking about NH, but MD's motto is "The Free State". And besides, there's only a couple hundred free staters. At this point, every state in the nation has more liberty-minded people than NH. I'm guessing that even little Delaware has more than 600.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
It's easier to say than do
In 1996, I left city life ( and corporate america) for the counrty life. 80 acres in the rockies' foothills. It was a great move for me. Since then, I've seen many city folk move into the area thinking it would be easy - they are no longer here. My 2500 acre "community" has 16 miles of PRIVATE roads. We maintain them (roadbase / gravel). It's a pain in the ___, but the goverment accesses our roads by invitation only. And, we don't have "cruising around" traffic, because our private roads are controlled by electronic gates, and anybody without explict authorization is tresspassing - and we enforce that. (I'm well armed, but compared to my neighbors, I'm a pup - nobody is voilent, but defensive - seriously, I can only think of one house I can walk into without knowing that there is at least one loaded / chambered gun, and the rest of us assure her protection) City folk that have left here, think it is worth relinquishing sovereignty to have street lights (and street lights really suck in the country!) and city snow plows.
The harshness of counrty living is generally a pretty good sieve. I have family members (daughter & family) that couldn't (more likley, wouldn't)survive here. How long are you comfortable without public electricity? What do you really know about a water well & converting the well into household potable water pressures? When was the last time you ran a tractor(driving a hay ride does not count)? Stored 20 tons of hay? Maintained a mile of personal driveway?...
Ron Paul - Hope for America
Ron Paul - Hope for America
Go Farm Young Man Go Farm - Do what You fear & the fear will dis
The land farm is what we all are made out of, go farm, & teach your children to fish, for with that knowledge you will feed them for life.
Go Farm - Do what You fear & the fear will disappear.
A message to Ron Paul supporters.
With the Fed cutting interest rates to ZERO - the Fed indirectly validated mathematically perfected economy. If there will be a will to establish mathematically perfected economy, or call it what ever you want, like 100 percent sustainable economy, we could change things on the dime by morning figuratively speaking. Gold, silver is great for storage of wealth but not anymore for economic back-bone.
We must build a political will beyond anything ever build in history of mankind & then we make it happen & establish it, for the political will is in a number of people aware of such possibility.
There are less then 2 percent of almost (7B) 7,000,000,000 global population with higher education, & those 'educated' are actually grossly mis-educated. Seven percent of any population is a tipping point of no return - the rolling snow ball cannot be stopped - if Ron-Paulers would make up that seven percent of US population wanting mpe - than we are on the way to new economic paradigm big time. It is all in numbers.
Marry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Best of New Year 2009
P.S.
It blows my mind how 65,000,000 voters go hypnotized by obama -
330,000,000 /65,000,000 = 19.69696969...percent
how? use of proportion!
330 millions of Americans = 100%
65 millions of votes for obama
so
65x100=6500/330=19.67%
PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy™ : the singular integral solution to 1) inflation and deflation, 2) systemic manipulation of the cost or value of money or property, and 3) inherent, irreversible multiplication of debt in proportion to a circulation.
www.PerfectEconomy.com
mms
economist entrepreneur proprietor
sound money economic policy advocate
google! PFMPE and prosper for ever & beyond
mms, economist, entrepreneur, proprietor;
abolish interests on debt policy.
what is mathematically perfected economy™?
Great info...
we are looking for a farmette.
Simple decision-Concrete or Dirt
Refrained from comment. Can't anymore. Self-reliance or "community-whatever." Chart your path, as far from idiots as possible. A single acre of garden, that is 200 miles from a city will be priceless. Neighbors are great ....till they are very hungry....then....!
Flee the city! Stock up, learn and work, very, very hard.
"..shall not be infringed."
"..shall not be infringed."
The sooner the better
I think it's a great plan. Though indeed you would have to part with what you know and are used to now, in the long run it would be wise to adapt to rural, more self-sufficient living. And for the next few years especially.
Though I don't believe that it's a matter of survival to do so. You could stay where you are and survive, but under a different set of hardships.
The hardship you'd be faced with in farm life is basically the fact that you're new to it. Though I am not very experienced myself, I have started gardening and raising chickens. And I know, "next year I'll do better". And the year after that, and so on.
In other words, it is something that requires hands-on experience and time to get used to. No matter how much you read about it (which is good to do!), unless you have experience it's not something you can expect to get right into. Your best bet would have to have someone with experience teaching you the ropes, right at your side for at least three seasons.
I'm sure you already realize this. But the point is that if it's something you want for your future - which I think is a great idea for anyone - it's better to start sooner than later!
...
"Talk all you can about all you know all of the time."
.
...
Enjoy www.freetalklive.com
Thank you all so much for the useful information
This is one of the most informative series of forum comments I have ever read on the Internet, and comes at a very opportune time since although I will not be able to do most of this for another couple of years, I can start planning now.
Thanks again, everyone, and best wishes to all!
MDLibertarian (now TXLibertarian, I guess, hehe)
great posts
I just want to thank everyone for all the thoughtful advice and feedback. We've been on the road for most of the day today travelling from Jax to Knoxville, Tn. to spend a few days with family for Christmas. I've just been able to skim the posts, but I can tell much of the feedback will be helpful. I will definetly respond with some more questions when I get some time. Didn't want everyone to think I was being rude. Again, thank you so much.
Urban Farmscaping
Convert all of your yard and planter space into food production. If it's not an herb, fruit, vegetable, or spice, don't grow it.
If you truely wish my opinion then respond ...
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Why not buy acreage and stay
Why not buy acreage and stay in the city at the same time?
Isn't Jax surrounded by rural land? Yes, it's a big metropolitan city, but it's not one of the ten largest US cities and it's not packed into a population corridor like many northeastern cities.
If this is a survivalist issue, you shouldn't count on farming to feed your family anyway. I live on 130 acres, around 70 of which are professionally grain farmed, and I realize that a cataclysm would threaten my food supply if it occurred suddenly during most months of the year. Only a few months of the year could we count on subsisting on corn or wheat.
I recommend buying something proximal, building a cabin, planting a fruit orchard, and stockpiling food and seeds (but mostly food) at your current home.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Start small
Get some land within driving distance of Jacksonville and start doing some things to get an idea of if you like the life. My family used to grow food and keep animals far from where we lived. It worked out fine.
(If you keep a significant number of animals, it's wise to get a trailer tenant to live on the property, just to discourage theft, though.)
Defend Liberty!
For those who can't afford
For those who can't afford to buy the farm, remember you can grow your own food 365 days a year with a small kitchen hydroponic garden. I do this and it is easy plus economical. The key to successful indoor gardening is a grow light. I am growing lettuce, tomato, pepper and just planted strawberries. This system doesn't take up a lot of space which makes it ideal for those who live in an apartment, condo, townhouse or retirement villa. It is a great way for you to grow your own food without having to purchase land.
Lettuce grows really fast in this system and you can make a meal out of a salad by adding chicken, tuna or grilled salmon.
So don't despair if you live in a small space and you want to grow your own food. You can do it. Click on this link http://www.4huts.com/products/nourishing-food/homegrown.html to learn more.
“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero”. Voltaire-1729
www.4HUTS.com
“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero”. Voltaire-1729
www.4HUTS.com