Feds raid company that deals in precious metals

This is pretty scary stuff and reminiscent of a time in Germany...I wonder if the motivation was our wonderful $4.3M day?

The details:
FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollars
Bernard von NotHaus, WhatReallyHappened.com

November 15, 2007
Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people's hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don't let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus




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I have been smeared...

I have been smeared at this website, not once but twice and I have put them on notice for a retraction. If I don't get one I will definitely pursue it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/ron_paul_is_a_useful_...

I have never made any comments that would suggest I'm a 911 'truther' nor have I ever slandered any ethnic group. Apparently these people don't understand the right to own precious metals or that no crime has been committed and that we see how they are attempting to smear our candidate.

I suspect a person or persons from that website came here, signed up a few days ago and posted ethnic slurs, then wrote an article pointing to it. I found two, and deleted them. If that person attempts to post that garbage again, he will be banned.

I stand by my idea that our rise in the polls and exceptional fundraising and the only true conservative message which is catching on, is what scared some into trying to derail the campaign in any way they could. This was a last resort since nothing else has worked. The above website's attempt to suggest Ron Paul was involved in a scam is completely inappropriate.

Jane Aitken, 35-Year Veteran Teacher
Ron Paul 2008 Consultant
GOP Woman of the Year 2009
Founder NH Tea Party Coalition (NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY FAKE 2009 GROUP)
Founder USPEINetwork @ Yahoo (Nat'l Edu Activism Group)
Board Coalition of NH Taxpayers

Thank You

Thank you for helping on this website. You are doing an excellent job. Don't let these people get you down. They just want to start some trouble. You have been working hard for this campaign, I guess that puts you on their radar. We all know what's going on here. Just imagine how Ron Paul must feel. He is dealing with slander every day.

Gandhi's Daily Resolution:

. I shall not fear anyone on earth.
. I shall fear only God.
. I shall not bear ill toward anyone.
. I shall not submit to injustice from anyone.
. I shall conquer untruth by truth.
. And in resisting untruth, I shall put up with all suffering.

Liberty Dollar and the U.S Silver Eagle Dollar

I believe the timing of the raid actually coincides with the latest victory in Nevada where the plaintiffs won thier case against the IRS because they were paid wages in Silver Eagle Dollars. This is our ace in the hole because the government has been badly cornered by this case in what is actually legal tender in this country and the msm total ignored the story as if that is a surprise. There is no difference between a Liberty Dollar and a Silver Eagle except one is minted privately and the other by the government, the content of siver is the same. I urge everyone to get themselves up to speed on the Nevada case as this is more than likely the reason the government has gone after the Liberty Dollar.

correction

The Nevada case actually had the defendants win, they were the company that paid wages to the employees in Silver Eagle Dollars and the employees themselves well over a hundred of them!

Oh Shit! My Camel Cash!

So, I guess I won't be getting that cool Camel jacket? The Feds came and took all the merchandise?

The FBI affidavit and warrant is online

Rumor Mill reading room has the link to the official FBI documents. The big mistake was not putting NOT LEGAL TENDER on the coins. The timing of this I find highly suspicious. We must use worthless paper money or else.

Santa Dollars?

Ok, when I told my sister about the LD raid she told me how she was in line at the corner store behind someone trying to pay for goods with dollars that had Santa on them.. I had to look this up just to add to the confusion.

http://www.santadollars.com

I like the bunny bucks better : )

http://www.bunnybucks.com/
Or if you're not into that, how about berkshares
http://www.berkshares.org/localcurrency.htm

IRS because they were paid

IRS because they were paid wages in Silver Eagle Dollars. This is our ace in the hole because the government has been badly cornered by this case in what is actually legal tender in this country and the msm total ignored the story as if that is a surprise. There is no difference between a Liberty Dollar and a Silver Eagle except one is minted privately and the other by the government,
clomid

Mods, Spam alert jeilo92x

.

S because they were paid

S because they were paid wages in Silver Eagle Dollars. This is our ace in the hole because the government has been badly cornered by this case in what is actually legal tender in this country and the ms
lexapro

bigmikedude's picture

Thank you poq

I blocked it.
Now I'm curious as to how that one got through with as much as the current filter grabs.

money. We have no products.

money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our
meds

wolfe's picture

It actually copied out of an existing comment...

And just added it's own, probably well formed link to the end... Hard as hell for a filter to catch something like that I would imagine.

I popped in because I saw a post by Jane who I hadn't seen around here in years and was curious... :)
_________
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

Turn US dollars into Ron Paul dollars?

Since the Feds have declared war on the Ron Paul dollar, maybe Ron Paul supporters should declare war on the U.S. dollar. Wouldn't it be great if every Ron Paul supporter desecrated the U.S. currency by writing "www.ronpaul2008.com" on Federal Reserve notes? What a wonderfully subversive way to get Ron Paul's message into the hands of the masses and express our contempt at the government's money.

Feds Raid

I have a Ron Paul stamp and I AM already stamping all my paper dollars!!!

If many people did that think of the advertising as all that money changes hands In fact it is my small way of spreading the word and now it is my protest against what the Feds have done.

There are hundreds of companies that issue coins and they chose the one that produced the RP coins!!! Tells us something

First Ignore.
Then ridicule.
Then fear.
Then attempt to destroy.
Then We the People elect him.

Carole
Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool ---- Plato

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.---Dresden James

Carole
Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool ---- Plato

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually t

Stamp them

I use my RP stamp on on all small bills

Disturbing inflationary thought

You could also write on the fed res note (if you can fit it on there), "This note is losing 1% of its value every 60 days so spend it quickly."
Pathetic huh. And that's been going on for the last 7 years.

This is so much better then TV

This is scary and serious. But I have not had such great itellectual banter in years. You people make me laugh. "The copers stole my copers" "Hitlery and Ghouliani." it just rips me up.

Watch freedomtofascism.com

Patriot News
http://redpillpost.com
*
Stand up For your Civil Rights
http://SueBadCops.com

This is like the e-gold seizures

See this link:

http://tinyurl.com/2zua3t

Just government doing its usual thing, stealing money from people. This will happen more and more as the dollar flops. They will grab any hard cash they can find.

Owning Precious Metals

Owning precious metals and using them for barter is no different than gift certificates, paper checks or a pan of lasagna for the person who cleans your garage out for you.

There are many companies that sell gold and silver and people have invested heavily. This company should be no different. If people agreed to use it to exchange as a unit of value, there is no law against that either so long as you do not try to trick someone into thinking it's government money (why you would do that I don't know). So, clearly the rights of this company have been violated and their property has basically been stolen, in my opinion. I hope everyone will join the lawsuit against the FEDS. One news outlet wrongly suggested that a customer was suing LD, but he was not. He was joining their class action suit.

Jane Aitken, 35-Year Veteran Teacher
Ron Paul 2008 Consultant
GOP Woman of the Year 2009
Founder NH Tea Party Coalition (NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY FAKE 2009 GROUP)
Founder USPEINetwork @ Yahoo (Nat'l Edu Activism Group)
Board Coalition of NH Taxpayers

Decentralize the Minitng of Liberty Dollars

Seeing as now the company minting the Liberty Dollars won't be making anything any time soon, they should release the designs for the coins to the internet so people can set up shop and keep printing them.
Put the Fed out o' business overnight.

brilliant

gleidy

brilliant/decentralize

gleidy

illegality

Both groups say the other is in violation of the Consitution, but only one of the groups is willing to use guns and force on the other. Funny how that works. If nobody has claimed to have been injured by this outfit, who exactly is the FBI and secret service protecting?

Who is FBI protecting?

Hitlery and Ghouliani.

The state has no duty to

The state has no duty to protect, the supreme judges have said so over and over again. Retalitaion is their game.

Liberty Dollar

Looks like MSM has picked up the story and already started spinning it into some sort of hit job.

CNN:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/16/illegal-ron-...

MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21836699/

Notice how they immediately call it illegal money?

Guilty until proven-innocent

Is typical for "journalists" when covering privately-issued currencies. I know from the e-gold lawyer-welfare-program that's been going-on for years. This kind of bias is nothing new, but it IS particularly-blatant, and it was predictable-enough that I predicted it (IIRC right here!).
JMR

promoting at the same time?

I remember our discussion quite differently JMR.

http://friends-n-family-research.info/FFR/Merrill_TWA_Collec...

AP is always at risk

AP is always using sensational headlines that could get them into real trouble with the campaign. First of all the coins are NOT 'fake' metals, and secondly, they are NOT 'Ron Paul's'.

info@ap.org is where to write.

Jane Aitken, 35-Year Veteran Teacher
Ron Paul 2008 Consultant
GOP Woman of the Year 2009
Founder NH Tea Party Coalition (NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY FAKE 2009 GROUP)
Founder USPEINetwork @ Yahoo (Nat'l Edu Activism Group)
Board Coalition of NH Taxpayers

Is this all they have to do?

The typical FBI agent is a patriotic American. I have never had any contact with the Secret Service, so I can't comment on them. Most government employees are decent, honorable people. I used to be one. The corruption is at the top.

It is the unscrupulous, sycophants that rise to the top of these departments, agencies and bureaus. I wonder what they told the agents that were involved in this raid.

How do you convince FBI agents to steal private property from a company that is selling legal products? While our immigration laws are flounted, we have a former Attorney General who has admitted violating the rights of American citizens in his enforcement of the ill-named Patriot Act, and yet, the FBI raids a company that is selling gold and silver coins which do not represent legal tender. They are in fact, real money as specified in the Constitution.

All I can say is that if we ever get this government back under the Constitution, there are a lot of high ups in our government who are going to jail. They are violating the law, and they know it. They think the American people don't, but that is changing.

Every time an incident like this occurs, it is more proof of where we are headed. We need to steer clear of some of the whacko conspiracy theories that are bandied about. Let's stick to the real, provable conspiracies, and exposed the criminals who are involved in them.

We should

focus on RP winning the election at this point. When Ron Paul wins, we can take care of these people and try them for treason. They have names just like you and me.

I'M APPLAUDING

Clap - Clap - Clap - Good Point.

Is this all they have to do?

The typical FBI agent is a patriotic American. I have never had any contact with the Secret Service, so I can't comment on them. Most government employees are decent, honorable people. I used to be one. The corruption is at the top.

It is the unscrupulous, sycophants that rise to the top of these departments, agencies and bureaus. I wonder what they told the agents that were involved in this raid.

How do you convince FBI agents to steal private property from a company that is selling legal products? While our immigration laws are flounted, we have a former Attorney General who has admitted violating the rights of American citizens in his enforcement of the ill-named Patriot Act, and yet, the FBI raids a company that is selling gold and silver coins which do not represent legal tender. They are in fact, real money as specified in the Constitution.

All I can say is that if we ever get this government back under the Constitution, there are a lot of high ups in our government who are going to jail. They are violating the law, and they know it. They think the American people don't, but that is changing.

Every time an incident like this occurs, it is more proof of where we are headed. We need to steer clear of some of the whacko conspiracy theories that are bandied about. Let's stick to the real, provable conspiracies, and exposed the criminals who are involved in them.

Sorry...

I guess I don't understand what a "liberty dollar" is....i was under the impression that it was some sort of fake dollar bill w/ RP's info on it.

it is also

...hard currency...I have "several" silver coins with RP on it.

and while everyone is paying attention, you should now go to:

www.apmex.com and buy all of the physical gold you can afford befor the Fed raids them next!

A Receipt

It's a receipt for a particular quantity of a valuable metal stored in a vault. Someone might agree to trade you something they own in exchange for the receipt.

Toward manking Gold Ownership Illegal

The "liberty dollar" is legal and does not represent itself as the dollar of the government of the united states. It is ownership in Gold.

The FED simply working toward outlawing owning Gold. This is facism pure and simple. Theft, harrasment, illegal, and further proof that our government is nothing but a puppet government. The president is a figurehead only and the true boss is Bernanke the Govenor of the US under the World Bank.

This is clearly an act of aggression and war by the FED.

Copper Pipe Theft

In other news two men were charged with grand theft for stealing copper pipe.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7227724?nclick_ch...

potential lawsuit

jean allen

You might wish to talk to Bob Shulz of WethePeople Foundation. While not an attorney, he has 30 years of litigation experience. He is the instigator of NCEL (of which I am a plaintiff). He is an expert in the "redress of grievance" area. He is also a huge Ron Paul supporter.
I was not a customer of yours. However, if "potential" customers can sign up, count me in. I'm angry that I can't do business with you now or in the future.

jean allen

How can they be so sure

If the FBI doesn't acknowledge that they took the money, maybe this was a robbery with people posing as FBI. Perhaps, the owner should file a robbery report and have the police investigate.

not unrelated

check out the docs at http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf

now i can't say for sure whether or not there were crimes committed here, but it sure seems to me like the entire Liberty Dollar operation has been completely transparent. and when accused publicly of doing something illegal, they challenged that assertion in court, trying to get an official declaration on whether what they were doing was illegal. the response was to come in unannounced and take everything.

if you look, the judge trying the lawsuit also signed the search warrant. he absolutely knew everything that was going on. the last filings in the lawsuit were filed on Nov 9th, 5 days before the raid.

whether or not LD did anything wrong, this whole thing stinks.

coppers stole my coppers!

ok, I only had 10 coppers left on order. I bought them for their bullion and commemorative value not as a form of currency.

The points of contentions with the government apparently are:

The mint is the only people that can mint coin. But since these are made of almost pure metal it is arguably bullion. So they may be in trouble because it is round and not square I guess.

Their should be no issue with the paper since corporations are allowed to print non legal tender currency. This is usually done to keep money local to a community. You convert the money to the local non legal tender for 90 cents on the dollar and use it at local participating stores in the community. Essentially the stores offer a 10% discount to people using the money in order to keep it local and small shops thus compete with larger corporations like walmart which drains local economies of money. This is legal as long as the money is not passed off as "REAL" IE you as long as you dont try and spend it at a non participating store.

Check these out...
http://tinyurl.com/2uhjab
http://tinyurl.com/3572au
http://tinyurl.com/2ohg8m

Liberty dollar was doing the same thing except their dollars were backed by metal and not corporate fiat.

Did You sign on to the class action suit?

Get on over to that cyber attorney and get on the suit to get Your goods. The attorneys must also point out LD has operated since 1998 without incident. Looks like a political hit job to Me, and the jury will probably see it that way too. I think the suit link is on the LD site, do it now!

Why hasn't the Fed confiscated all

Disney Dollars? They have a "monetary" value and are printed on much like real dollars. Yet the government ignores that...probably because Disney is a large influential corporation. I hate hypocrisy.

"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.

http://disillusionedrants.blogspot.com/

This is NOT okay

A commenter wrote that this act by the FBI (government) is "OK and normal" "If the RP Liberty dollars were true $One Dollar Bills - although obviously fake - they still are subject to seizure.
This has nothing to do with RP, just the Secret Service doing what they believe their job is."

But the Liberty dollars are nothing of the sort.

I am a bearer of several dollars worth of Liberty dollar silver certificates.
And it is clear, with the seizure of precious metal from the warehouse of the Sunshine Mint, where the backing for the certificates are warehoused, my property has been taken without due process of law (4th Amendment violation).

I have joined the class action lawsuit and I have put a call into my congressman.

Ultimately I will have to wait for events to unfold. The chilling part of this for me is a reading of the search warrant and the seizure warrant. The descriptors are so broad that my innocent purchase of the precious metals and paper silver certificates may be construed by the government to view any association/purchaser as a co-conspirator.

All I wanted to do by purchasing the precious metal was to protect the purchasing power of the fruits of my labor.

The following is excerpt from the Liberty Dollar website. You can read the whole page here:

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/legalopinionletter.htm

Elect Ron Paul for Peace, Prosperity and Freedom.
Sincerely,
MichaelP

Here now is the excerpt, the conclusion by an attorney:

"Counterfeiting, Similitude and other U.S. Laws"

"I find that the Patriot is not in violation of any Counterfeiting or Similitude statutes of the United States. In the first place, the design and shape of the Patriot distinguishes it from the similitude regulation issued by the Treasury Department. The Patriot is considerably wider and shorter than is minimally required to avoid a similitude violation as to the size. Further, the Patriot makes no claim of issuance by the United States Government or the Federal Reserve. Secondly, there can be no confusion relative to the terms of the paper instrument of its face and back with Federal Reserve Notes. Finally, statements concerning its use and acceptance as a petition to the U.S. Government to repeal the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code demonstrates that the paper instrument is also a petition or a statement of the bearer relative to their protected speech. This distinction in use and acceptance should convincingly remove the instrument from considerations of counterfeiting or similitude type of violation since the basis of its use is set forth as a petition of grievances and not as a copy of the existing Federal Reserve Notes as money in the United States.

In summary, it is my opinion that the Patriot is a valid, negotiable paper instrument pursuant to the Laws of the Merchant codified in the UCC Article II, Ill and VII. As a negotiable warehouse receipt, a sales receipt and a document of title, this document is satisfactory in all respects. Relative to its intended use and proposed acceptance as a cash substitute, the exercise of the First Amendment rights by the bearer afford both the bearer and the issuer the protections of fundamental First Amendment rights. The Patriot is not purporting to replace or confuse the present legal tender in the United States. The Patriot is, in fact, an intentional distinction from Federal Reserve Notes used as money in the United States in its nature, design and message."

very useful, thanks

We purchased some Liberty (Ron Paul) items . so am thankful for your information.

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

www.dailypaul.com/280083/jesus-christ-vic

Run away!

They took the computers! All of you with liberty's are soon going to loose them. The dollar is about to crash! Run to the gold and silver American eagles. The world has lost faith in the FRN American dollar! Those of you on the border with Canada, get Canadian money. AAAAAHHHHH! Run from the dollar! Run from the dollar! Pull your money out of the banks. Run!

Kind of funny but not really.

How weird things are getting.

Watch freedomtofascism.com

Patriot News
http://redpillpost.com
*
Stand up For your Civil Rights
http://SueBadCops.com

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;

when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
(Thomas Jefferson)

The Feds have a lot of explaining to do.

"OK Shaggy, you and Scoob check out the cave, me and the girls will stay here in the cabin"
~ Fred

Bring down the Federal Reserve!

Bring down the Federal Reserve!

We should get back to Ron Paul, but this is a subject that Ron Paul backs and by the Constitution we are protected against illegal seizure. Are we going to stand by until they confinscate all Ron Paul's donation money? I bought and paid for Ron Paul Dollars to hand out as campaign memorabilia. It has been stolen, just like FDR stole gold from my ancestors. I want real money, the Constitution guarentees that I have rights, included amougst these are the right to Real Money. How long do we have to wait. Ron Paul will be elected by the people if we stand up as one, if we back down, then we have allowed it to happen and only we are to blame. Ron Paul for President sure, but we must demand that the current administration follow the Constitution until then and that the Congress sees to it that he does. I want the gold that the Federal Reserve has in reserve to be exchanged for the dollars that I have in my pocket, it only took a presidential order to have gold removed from the system, so it will only take a presidential order to require the Federal Reserve to take my notes in exchange for gold. The president could mandate that gold be fixed to the current exchange rate which is about $800 dollars, the Federal Reserve than would be required to exchange their gold in reserve for my Federal Reserve Note. Don't tell me it couldn't be done, FDR stole my Grandparents gold by hoodwinking them. In return he gave them paper. So now I want gold in exchange for paper, perhaps it should be for $35 dollar per ounce, plus interest, but I'll settle for $800, deal? Of, course we all know that this isn't going to happen, but if nothing else at least the Federal Reserve will know that we are serious. Every time we take a step back they will take a step forward. Ron Paul for President. Time for tea!
grant