Feds raid company that deals in precious metals

This is pretty scary stuff and reminiscent of a time in Germany...I wonder if the motivation was our wonderful $4.3M day?

The details:
FBI Raids Liberty Dollar – Confiscates All Ron Paul Dollars
Bernard von NotHaus, WhatReallyHappened.com

November 15, 2007
Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people's hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don't let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

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Where's the Gold?

The real question is where is the gold that the FED has? Some Congressmen have asked for an audit of the gold and silver with no response. Maybe the American people should raid the FED and confiscate all of OUR gold and silver. Our own government is corrupt and the FED (who guarantees our money up to $100,000 per account) is a PRIVATE organization. This does it for me, I'm cashing in all of my CD's and retirement fund and buying gold and silver.

I'm a Meetup Organizer from Lib Dol hometown: Evansville, IN...

and yes it happened. here are the local news clips, one's pretty well done, the other one, not so much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_sSipUrBG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8P9dNXTEg

The information in the NBC affiliate's coverage is flat out wrong, the man they are speaking to who has ordered $5K dollars worth of their product is filing a class action lawsuit (as are many) WITH Liberty Dollar against the Government (not against liberty dollar). Also, if any money is funny, I think those of us here know what that would be...

Let your haters be your motivators!

Donate even more to Ron Paul!

Reach out to even more people!

Fight the good fight with even more zeal!

Ron Paul is the great uniter, the income tax fighter...the military-supported, defender of the border...the political apathy solution and the champion of the Constitution! Doctor Paul is on-call!

Sadly not a hoax

Search and seizure warrants can be found at the link below. I still don't know why the feds seized the paper certificates. And yes, membership lists were on the search warrant - holy polaris missiles batman!

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

Crime committed?



Doesn't this amount to theft and unlawful seizure by the FBI/Secret Service-?

What gives the government the right to barge in and rob you of all your gold, silver, assets, property, etc.?
If they had "an issue" with The Liberty Dollar, why couldn't they file an injunction? file specific charges? bring them into court?, etc.

There is no due process here. Where is the ACLU?
What is Liberty Dollar doing to fight back on this?

Just what laws were broken by Liberty Dollar, and if none were then what can be done about this?


U.S. Mint says:

"Under 18 U.S.C. § 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law."

(Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25)
"§ 486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal
Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

The argument here is over 3 things:
1) The definition of "current money". Some say that the money has to claim to be legal tender for it to be defined as current money...the U.S. Mint, of course, will disagree.
2) Whether the law is even Constitutional. Not allowing trade in any metal or metal alloy, based on its "intended use"?
3) The paper bonds that Liberty Dollar used do not fall under this law, as they are not coins of any type of metal, but are paper. The Director of the U.S. Mint admitted this in a letter to Senator Bill Nelson.

Also, libertydollar.org claims that their liberty metals are not coins, and asks people to not call them "coins". Don't know how well that will stand up in court, but I suppose we will see. I don't know anything about the difference between medallions/bullion/coins/doubloons/etc. so I have no opinion on that.

Significantly worse than simple crime -- "under color of law"

See http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/242fin.htm

TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

The above means that the INDIVIDUALS who participated in these actions can eventually be charged and fined or imprisoned, regardless of which agency they belong to. (Of course, that could happen only with a non-corrupt Justice Department and Attorney General).

under color of law

Who's law are we talking about. If you go in to a court, what jurisdiction are you under? Do you know? Are you guessing?

Have you seen the US Flags that have the gold fringe around three edges of the US flag popping up all over. Like when you see a congressman or senator on tv there is sometimes such a flag in the background.
Most people think it to be the US Flag with some nice decoration on it.

IT IS NOT THE US FLAG! It is the admiralty flag representing Maritime law (international law).

The flag represents the jurisdiction of the court you are in. These flags are now in all courtrooms in the country. So you should know how to challenge jurisdiction properly. If you enter a plea you have surrendered to the jurisdiction. If you in any way behave as if you are subordinate to the court you have surrendered to the jurisdiction. If you sit when told or stand when told Raise your hand when told you are under their jurisdiction.

If you are asked if you are a resident of the state and you answer in the affirmative. You have now declared that you are. What they won't tell you is the legal definition of resident, the hidden adhesion clauses, laws, rules and responsibilities as resident you are now under.
You said you you are a resident, you made a statement in a court of law so they take your word for it and hold you to it legally.

But if you were informed you would make no statements but ask questions. Like why do they want to know? They might say they need it for their records. You might ask if you are responsible for their records.

If feel you absolutely must make a statement then say I am not a resident but I am a Citizen with a Capital C as described in the US Constitution.
I am under the jurisdiction of These United States and it's laws to which I pledge my allegiance. Then walk out!.
Better yet never ever enter.

If you can afford it, you

If you can afford it, you can still get the RON PAUL Silver Liberty Dollar on eBay http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbr.... but, then, of course you can always bid on a Hillary Clinton 3 Dollar Bill for only 99 cents instead http://cgi.ebay.com/Hillary-Clinton-3-Dollar-Bill-2-99_W0QQi.... LOL!
It's very tempting to buy one of these Liberty Dollars, since it's now a rare collector item, thanks to the Feds. Personally I'd rather donate my money to Ron Paul.

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

This is OK and normal.....

We used to have a lot of $1 Million Dollar Bills that had a Gospel message on them. They were clearly fakes...no such thing as a $1,000,000 dollar bill.

Anyway, one day the Feds caught wind of these gospel tracts and they came to a ministry we were involved with and they confiscated ALL OF THEM.

If the RP Liberty dollars were true $One Dollar Bills - although obviously fake - they still are subject to seizure.

This has nothing to do with RP, just the Secret Service doing what they believe their job is.

Not so Bomy

Liberty Dollar has been in operation since 1998. The timing of this raid will cause the prosecuters case to stink of politics in a jury trial. This was just another gov. snafu. In a brazen attempt to prevent the citizenry from using precious metals promoted by a company that denounces the federal reserve as the sham that it is. We are scaring the establishment cigar smokers to death with all this talk of liberty and sound money. These mattoids will stop at nothing to derail the freedom train. We must re-double our efforts at educating the zombie masses in the ways of true freedom.

Not normal or OK

bomybomy, you seem confused as to what Ron Paul dollars are. We are not talking about "real" US Federal Reserve Notes that have been altered to add Ron Paul stuff to them, or "fake" FRNs that could be considered counterfeit. The Ron Paul dollars that were confiscated were real gold, silver and copper dollars (legally they cannot call them coins, but thats what they are), and it wasn't just Ron Paul dollars, it was everything that Liberty Dollar produces. It is absolutely legal to use other things than FRNs to exchange for goods and services if both parties agree.

What the government says is that Liberty Dollar is misrepresenting their alternative currency as being "legal tender" which is something only the federal government can produce. Of course this is BS because Liberty Dollar is very clear that what they produce is not legal tender, but an alternative form of currency for those who want to opt out of using the Governments money that has no real value.

Since the government has all the records I wounder what will happen to all of us who purchased Liberty Dollars. Scary times.

Note

If any of you have proof that this is a hoax, please, send it to me.
I fear that this is in reaction the fact that no amount of name-calling against our squeaky clean candidate (crank, wacko, fringe, nutcase, looney, terrorist, anti-semite) is going to stop the revolution...so confiscating their assets is another way to try. Plus, they have all your names on a list now...consider that. All you terrorists who own gold and silver.

Jane Aitken, 35-Year Veteran Teacher
Ron Paul 2008 Consultant
GOP Woman of the Year 2009
Founder NH Tea Party Coalition (NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY FAKE 2009 GROUP)
Founder USPEINetwork @ Yahoo (Nat'l Edu Activism Group)
Board Coalition of NH Taxpayers

Not a Hoax

I had around $225 of my own personal assets seized in the raid. I lost the 25 Copper Ron Paul Liberty Dollars that I had ordered to give out to friends and family, and $200 in silver that was backing up my paper certificates at the Sunshine Mint.

money

well hopefully you didn't invest more than you could afford to loose. That is why I never purchased any myself. As a business owner, I was going to join there web site and accept liberty dollars.

This sucks

I've got over $800 digital and about $300 in paper I stand to lose. I've signed up on the lawsuit as well. It should be a slam dunk for Liberty Dollar in the decision, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Sign on now

Join the class action suit on the LD site and do it now.

No it is not a hoax, local

No it is not a hoax, local news published a story about it and NORFED sent out a news letter.