"Debt" is an emotion

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Besides a feeling of indebtedness, what else is "owing" anyone anything? I know there's force of law and threat of retaliation, but put that aside and debt is a feeling.

I'm starting to feel like I don't owe banks squat.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND. I AM NOT SAYING STOP PAYING YOUR DEBTS. I AM SPEAKING PHILOSOPHICALLY HERE.

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Product of Consciousness

The concept of debt/obligation is a product of consciousness. Without conscious thought (self awareness), there can be no morality. Without morality, there can be no concept of obligation because it is a moral abstraction in thought.

The American Indians had no "concept" of individual land ownership, although they did have territorial boundaries.

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"Let the good heart speak words of true peace, not inciting others to further war." -- B.I.S.

Debt is not an emotion

emotion is a feeling
1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness.
2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.

debt is an obligation
1. something that is owed or that one is bound to pay to or perform for another: a debt of $50.

In other words debt is not even close to emotion,

wake up!

Thanks for the dictionary defintions

I don't think you're following what I'm saying. Remember, this is PURE philosophy.

If the lender "feels" like giving the money instead of lending it, the debt goes away. If the borrower stops "feeling" like paying, it's not getting paid.

Maybe I should have said the MECHANISM that makes debt work is emotion.

This post is an exercise in free thinking. Dictionaries are not permitted.

How very Zen of you...

and how very hillarious that you would ban a source of information from 'an exercise in free thinking.'

My cursory analysis thus far:

1) 'Debt' is most definitely a word with an explicit meaning... (I'd go look it up, but that's a no no.)

2) If the lender "feels" like giving the money instead of lending it... Then the Borrower is a charity case, the Debt is a gift, and the lender is a donor.

3) If the borrower stops 'feeling' like paying... Then the borrower is a thief, the 'debt' is stolen goods, and the lender is a victim.

4) You need to come up with some better riddles, or a more interesting topic to be 'zen' about.

Great Followup

Or maybe more generically stated that emotion is the physical joinder to get real men and women mobilized to serve imaginary debt with real changes in state of physical being; work. Yep, indeed "to owe" is only a perceived appreciation, and this is still the primary driver for getting thoughts implemented through the manipulation of people.

I think you have it right on.

"Free your mind, your ass will follow."

Are you agreeing

with "debt is an emotion", I'm not sure I follow your post

Yes.

At the level of "meaning" thought determines reality. The primary means for controlling sentient beings is to give real meaning to actions.

I have stated before that we can no longer out-produce the food supply; so that most of our "work" is extraneous entertainment at best. As we can destroy the world ten times over so we could feed it too, if the notion so arose.

All that is left is to produce a "feeling" of need for transmutations of energy both physical and non that yield a result of real motive force of other sentient beings who would otherwise do something completely different. Debt in and of itself can only be experienced, it is not physically tangible. I do also agree common definitions are important. I should think I could just as easily restate the debt definition emotionally as:

1. A sovereign entity's recognized realistic feeling of servitude to reconstitute another's loss to the service of the same's interest.

Only a sovereign entity can bind oneself to anything and that binding is in and of itself purely a thought. In terms of the physical layer of the universe all that can be delivered of real value is physical and thus requires real force. Therefore it is not a binding of owedness(still just an idea) but a binding of servitude to reproduce that of same real value. I think this states the same definition in terms of human emotion. Though surely this could be reworded to be more accurate and true to thought.

Ultimately debt is not the value itself, but the feeling that the value must be served; it is the realtionship between two sovereign entity's.

This is a fantastic and very necessary discussion.

(Apologies if you read this already, had to edit...)

Great post!

You encapuslated my original thought perfectly. It is a great mental exercise. I'm really enjoying this discussion.

Oh come on now

No dictionaries here, are we banning correct word usage, just say what we want, whats this new philosophy or do you mean sophistry.

sophistry
1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2. a false argument; sophism.

Why not?

A global one month freeze on work and money exchange would jingle some power strings... With the internet this could be organized rather easily. It would show how ridiculous most of this slave labor is.

i dig that notion!

i'm in.

The dollar is a bill.

Then join in...

I stopped working, qualified as slave labor for FRNs, in November. I really don't have any plans to go back, but I might who knows for sure.... I do still perform tons of actual work on my own behalf in the form of research research research and more research, and maintenance of air water food and shelter for this shell of a body.

And start sending proof of loss and invoice of value requests to all debt holders of "loan notes".

Every bank balance is a DEBT. Not a BAILMENT.

When people say they have "money in the bank" that is actually FALSE under the fractional reserve system. What they actually have is the bank's debt. That might seem like a hair-splitting distinction. It isn't. Its the reason we have an "economic cycle" of boom and bust.

Mike, I strongly suggest you read "The Mystery of Banking". Its a free download:

http://mises.org/Books/mysteryofbanking.pdf

“Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy”

“Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

-Hermann Goering.

Oh, I actually don't even care

I just thought of this and figured I'd share. But thanks.
Personally, I'm gonna let others worry about what form money takes and hope to get some of it.

You don't care WHY the economy is in the shitter?

Ron Paul seems to care. Alot!

“Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy”

“Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

-Hermann Goering.

And Ron Paul's a congressman, I'm a signmaker

I can't fix it, I don't even try to pretend to know how.

You are important and you can make a difference.

If Ron Paul was standing in front of you right now, he would tell you that. I'm not "channelling" the guy, but I think I'm right about that ;-)

“Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy”

“Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

-Hermann Goering.

I every way that doesn't involve math, I'm good

but thank you. I'm working hard, just on other matters.

No math required. I swear!

If you're smart enough to be a Ron Paul supporter - you're smart enough to understand the basics of Austrian economics. The school of economics that Ron Paul subscribes to.

“Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy”

“Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

-Hermann Goering.

Money does NOT exist as a thing per se..

But is nothing more than a highly emotionally charged idea.
Gold only has value because we believe it does just like that paper.

It is all only an idea and an emotion.
Nothing more ,, nothing less...

One Voice, One Vision, One Love ~ Liberty.
Good Thoughts, Good Words , Good Deeds.
That is the Ron Paul rEVOLution Creed.

One Louv. ;-)..

No gold has value because it

No gold has value because it actually takes physical labor to dig it out of the ground. Also it has many industrial and artistic uses and it doesn't degrade over time and can not be counterfeited.

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Only dead fish go with the flow...
Get Prepared!

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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Is there a web site that is

Is there a web site that is Earth based?

oxen

Morally or Financially?

Morally, as libertarians like Harry Browne and Karen Kwaitkowski quoting earlier philosophers note that feeling morally indebted to authority, tradition, culture, et. are impediments to rationality and freedom.

Fiscally, playing the devil's advocate, debt is a blessing! Since money is a store of value and medium of exchange, debt is contrived wealth on the premise it can be repayed with interest tommorrow.

And if it can't? Just keep doubling-down and open a bank!

When ever I want you all I have to do is dream.

Isn't the matrix awesome?

oxen

You’ve been listening to too many educated idiots.

Debt is not an emotion. I figured you knew better, Mike.

Jackasses in government also say that debt doesn't matter; that it's just a state of mind. People like that are liars. But if you want to believe liars, knock yourself out. After all, ignorance really is bliss.

Any such underhanded philosophy is simply a shifty con job. But, once again, if you want to subscribe to nonsensical "feel good" ideas, have fun.

--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa
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December's song: Joy to the World by Mannheim Steamroller

Ciff, I haven't been listening to anyone, it was an observation

I was speaking very philosophically. Seriously, what is debt but a feeling?

Debt is an obligation,

Debt is an obligation, whether or not the contract is enforceable or that the contracted entered into is "fair" or not is immaterial. As it stands, you will pay your debts or you will face the consequences.

Of course, most of the time it's fraudulent usury, but that doesn't make it disappear like a passing emotion.

http://federalfallacy.com

"I know there's force of law and threat of retaliation"

"I know there's force of law and threat of retaliation, but put that aside and debt is a feeling."

everything is

as I've said in another post everything is a "feeling" but what does that have to do with borrowing something?

You cant just decide you dont owe money to someone you borrowed it from. You dont simply go "I dont feel like I owe this person" removing a feeling doesnt change the reality that you still took something from them.

Remove all feelings and sure you can do just about anything you want. Without guilt or remorse etc... you could steal from people, murder people, destroy peoples lives, lie, cheat, everything the government does.

But I am willing to bet you are better than that.

Debt isnt an emotion it's a reality; the result of an action. If you remove the feelings such as guilt, and remove concepts of morality and honor then sure dont pay it back, but you will be no better than the criminals you say you despise.

If you borrowed from the

If you borrowed from the bank you didn't borrow anything you were deceived into thinking you borrowed. There was no money to begin with and there is no money now but you are required to make money that doesn't exist to pay back money that never existed either.

Not all debts are false some are real where real money or property was exchanged lawfully there is a legitimate obligation such as a private contract with a land owner, but bank notes are fraudulent. That is why the real estate market is imploding because the banks bought all that property with nothing then sold it to you at interest and they will end up with it all again and try to start the process over again (at a discount of course) when they get all the property back from all the foreclosures.

You have no moral ethical or even lawful obligation because the contract was fraudulent. Yes the will enforce the fraudulent contract just like the mafia will enforce there protection rackets.

And look at all the sheep here who still insist you must pay the false debt.

-----
Only dead fish go with the flow...
Get Prepared!

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!