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Gravity: Horizontal or Vertical Force?

Since 11 September 2001, reality has been turned on its head.

One of the ways that it was turned on its head struck me yesterday here, when a commenter tried to argue that gravity could cause the evisceration of the human body into centimeter-sized bone fragments and eject them laterally.

So, now I just want to know what you believe. Does gravity cause vertical, downward acceleration, or does it cause horizontal, lateral, sideways acceleration?

Thank you.

Update: It looks like Sir Isaac Newton postulated a theory of gravity as a vertical force.

Update II: 1,151 human beings were dismembered such that no forensically-identifiable remains were recovered on 11 September 2001, leaving their grieving loved ones nothing to inter. God rest their souls.

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When I read the header I

When I read the header I just had to post this.

Gravity is not a Horizontal/Vertical force. Gravity is pull towards gravitational center. See how the moon's gravity pulls on the ocean to produce high and low tide.

Now in the aspect as you are putting it, since earths core is the most prominent gravitational center we feel, we experiance it as a vertical force.

Compression?

So "compression" pulled flesh off of what bodies? How many people were in the Towers below the impact zones at the time of their explosions? Turns out the poor people trapped above the impact zones comprised the majority of the murder victims, but am I to understand that the undamaged floors above compressed those people to death as they (the floors) fell unimpeded to earth in 15 seconds?

Please go to www.strike-the-root.com and read "Why Does the World Feel Wrong" for its discussion on the cause and consequence of non-existent critical thinking skills.

You missed the point completely ...

JKap was referring to the large radius of the debris field ...

I offered an alternative suggestion to explosives ...

That is all.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

No, actually, rhino, I didn't

miss the point. You missed the fact that I got the point completely...the utterly abysmal stupidity of the "compression theory". Believe me, I got it.

Just wanted to make sure you were clear as to what ...

we were discussing.

Thank you for clarifying that you were clear.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

fireant's picture

Compression?

Just asking. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the compression built up inside the building.

Undo what Wilson did

What exactly is your question?

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

fireant's picture

There had to be compression built up

inside the floors immediatly below the falling mass of the upper floors, released laterally as each floor or "compartment" gave way, yet I have have never heard this discussed as a force to account fo some of the lateral ejectile.

Undo what Wilson did

Compression would have caused some lateral ejection of

material I agree but the Towers had very open floor plans area that would not have restricted air flow very much so the amount of energy exerted by compression would not account for the distance and mass of the material ejected.

Now if you took the volume of air in each floor and forced it through an opening about 2" in diameter in 1/10 of a second that would work... That is the amount of force that it would need to eject 30 ton chucks of debris 400ft but that alone still would not account for the pulverization and disintegration of concrete and human beings.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

400 ft is the entire radius of the debris field ...

I think you will have a hard time finding evidence that 30 ton chunks landed that far away.

Secondly ...

your math is incorrect ...

Assuming a round building instead of a square one, the average velocity of the air would exceed 65 mph, with a maximum speed well in advance of this just before the two floors meet. That is just the lateral force from the air of course. There were many lateral forces besides this. (Not including explosives since this is a proposed alternative theory)

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

Some material that was 4 tons was ejected 600ft.

Roof damage to the Winter Gardens is 600 feet from the base of the tower.
http://www.csi911.info/exit_speed_54MPH.jpg
http://www.csi911.info/Exhibit_G.jpg
http://www.csi911.info/Exhibit_B.jpg

Downward Acceleration of the North Tower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG2y50Wyys4&feature=channel_page

I appreciate your feedback but my calculation of the force needed to eject a 30 ton mass 400ft was done and checked by five independent physics majors.

The Question remains... what caused these massive ejections to the distances recorded?

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

You said 30 tons in your above post ...

O.K. now we are at 4 tons.

And I think it was part of a wall which gives it quite a bit of surface area.

So you have a lot of wind force since the surface area is quite large ...

then you have other forces similar to snapping a toothpick.

Assuming that the distance is 600 ft ...

And assuming that the debris came from close to the impact floors ...

That debris had to be traveling approx. 88 mph.

That doesn't seem unrealistic.

Assume that the mass had a surface area of 32 sq.ft. tell me how much force would have to be exerted on the object to create a velocity of 60 ft/sec (88 m.p.h.).

That should be simple enough for you.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

This should answer your second question...

4-Ton Girders: Blowing in the Wind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKLOlIhang&feature=channel

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

If in fact explosives were used ...

I would expect a more regular pattern of heavy material blown near the peremeter of the debris field.

He notes one single example of a 4 ton girder.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

"a more regular pattern of

"a more regular pattern of heavy material blown near the perimeter"
The debris field that was left was quite uniform with some anomalies which is why explosives make sense to me. Chandler's example is one of many that he plotted to verify the speed of the ejections. Thanks for the discussion.
http://www.csi911.info/debris_field_lg.jpg

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

I, too, wish to thank you for a civil discussion ...

But the general radius of the debris field does not prove explosives ...

The average mass of the debris field broken down by concentric circles could prove explosives were used.

But this was never done.

I wish you well on your journey.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

My point was that debris was ejected further than 400ft

I have watched all of David Chandler's video's and found them to be extremely well done and verifiable. Here are a few...

High Speed Ejection from WTC1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2hTMOlD5s&feature=channel

Another High Speed Ejection from WTC1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djwBCEmHrSE&feature=channel

High Speed Ejection from WTC1--Further Analysis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9YjireIPCQ&feature=channel

South Tower Coming Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atSd7mxgsGY&feature=channel

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

I understand this ...

but these ejections are isolated incidents and therefore a logical conclusion would be that for these small examples ...

While air force played a part ...

other forces were probably prevailing ...

You are quite certain that it was explosives ...

I am significantly less confident of this ...

In fact I would still assert that that is improbable.

Picture a steel beam being bent and snapped like a toothpick.

What would happen?

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

I brought it up real early in this thread ...

And was called a troll and an idiot.

Prof de la paz even calculated the weight of the air within each floor.

Eric explained that that kind of air pressure could potentially pull flesh from bodies.

And we were dismissed as kooks that have no understanding of physics.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

Thank you for the update, rhino

I missed the part where I was dismissed as a fool who had no understanding of physics. Fortunately, Oregon State University didn't doubt my comprehension when they conferred their degrees upon me for my double major of Physics and Mechanical Engineering.

But then, most of my education takes place outside of school hours.

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Aye...

You just don't get it Rhino! You're asleep! /sarcasm

I'll withhold the rest of my snarky, and satirical (and extremely inappropriate) comment so as to avoid starting an internet war.

I've seen this thread get reposted a few times... I guess the guy just really wants someone to explain some basic physics to him.

fireant's picture

Yep

I just was not aware of any debate on air compression being the potential cause of squibbing below the collapse line. I see now it has been considered.

Undo what Wilson did

I do wish to confess one thing ...

I do in fact consider myself a kook, so I did not consider it an attack.

But honestly, the word kook never came up ...

I was merely paraphrasing.

LOL.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

This blog post...

Is not very educational or entertaining.

Oh hello.

Meet my friend. He used to transform gravity into lateral motion all the time before he was replaced by a big loud black guy. Now he sits around and throws college students into lakes for fun- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet

If you come up with a response containing something along the lines of "complicated mechanical system" you really are kinda blind.

CHA-CHING!

Trebuchets are really cool... we used to fire them off at

Rice Univ. years ago before the age of ambulance chasing... Your point here doesn't take into affect the amount of energy required. Some of the energy of the collapse would have caused lateral ejection but when you do that calculation the lateral energy required wasn't present, according to the official theory, with regards to what actually occurred. Something else had to have created that energy to disintegrate and eject that enormous mass.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

Like thousands of tons of building falling down?

If a trebuchet can throw a three hundred pound rock I would expect a building to be able to throw some debris...

CHA-CHING!

I understand your argument

I understand your argument but if you do the calculations they don't add up. As I said there was enough energy to create some lateral ejection just not enough to cause the disintegration of material including human beings and ejection over 600 feet in some cases. I think if you follow your own argument it will lead you to a very different scenario.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies."

"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."

Do what calculations?

Calculate the trajectory of every piece of debris? Its mass? Its initial position? How do you plan to calculate every joule of energy involved?

Disintegration of human beings? Do you see the concrete grinding into great clouds of dust in the videos? Do you see the pieces of debris raining down around the building as it collapses? A human body wouldn't stand a chance.

CHA-CHING!