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Dennis Kucinich to introduce legislation against the Fed and Fractional Reserve Lending


He still wrongly believes in spending our way out of the recession...

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Poor Dennis

The guy has a good heart and means well. But this will go down in flames the way his Impeachment initiative went. The guys on the hill can't stand him and won't put up with his nonsense. It is not nonsence, but it's a threat to the staus quo. He won't last long, sorry to say.

Ron Paul is, on the other hand, admired. They quash his bills with regularity but usually with the privat caveat, "I wish I could have voted for this Bill, but I play tennis with these guys."

Sorry, I think he is a

Sorry, I think he is a little clown.

You are misunderstanding what DK is proposing

Remember he only had a minute to make this little speech. When he proposed "moving" the Fed, I don't think he was speaking literally.

I am recommending (for the 3rd time) that anyone who wants to understand what he's proposing watch the video, Money as Debt. It can be accessed here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

What Dennis is proposing is

What Dennis is proposing is the "incorporation" of the Federal Reserve under the US Treasury.
Basically the govt will run banks that issue "United States Dollars" and fractional reserve banking will be no longer, as the Fed will simply just issue real dollars in place of the "Fractional reserve credit" that we currently use and the reserve requirement will be 100%. That is the essence of his plan.

What Dennis wants would be

What Dennis wants would be much, much better than the system we have now.
The problem with the current system is there is no way control the money supply when you have private banks issuing government-guaranteed currency.
When the govt is the sole issuing power of govt money, you can acutally control the money supply and tie it to growth in productivity.

a drunken monkey,

randomly pulling levers would be better than the system we have now.

"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."

You mean

that's not how it's done?

"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"

"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"

The problem with a gold standard is that ...

... as a nation increases in wealth, its money supply cannot expand (due to limitations on the amount of gold it has) and this creates problems for the economy. If there's not enough money in circulation to buy the goods being produced, production stops. Another problem with gold is that it can be manipulated ... made superabundant or scarce. In a complex, capitalistic economy, where greed is a virtue, there are definitely problems with a gold standard.

I think the cartoon video, Money as Debt, addresses the sort of system Dennis is talking about. You can access it here: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

It's definitely worth a look.

There is no problem....

...math works infinitely in both directions. Let's just say there was a fixed amount of gold and we had a gold standard monetary system. The pressure of greater production and wealth would act to push prices downward and make the purchasing power of the monetary unit (gold) greater. This would reward renters and savers. The positive gains from competition and innovation would be realised in lower prices and greater purchasing. The only real problem here is the change as the monetary unit becomes stronger and therefore methods of division become greater in demand. Oh yeah, and the resistance of shop owners to lower prices even though real profits have increased.

the increase

The increase in the value of gold would also lure people to gold exploration while still providing a check on the expansion of the money supply. There are many other rebuttals to the "gold won't work in a modern economy" argument, I'm suprised more haven't posted here. Gold is what nature has chosen as money over thousands of years, it is much more suitable than paper and electronic money clearly needs a tangible tie to reality.

"It is the responsibility of the patriot to protect his country from its government."

— Thomas Paine

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

Ron Paul belongs to the Austrian School of economics.

Check out www.mises.org

Paul Grignon (the creator of "Money As Debt") belongs to the "Social Credit" school. The "Money As Debt" film is riddled with fallacies.

The "interest can never be paid back" myth is a real stinker. Edward G Griffin did the best rebuttal of that one.

Ron Paul advocates a return to the gold/silver standard as per the US constitution.

Paul Grignon advocates a highly inflated, government distributed fiat currency with a prohibtion on interest bearing loans.

"That Socialism would be immediately practicable if an omnipotent and omniscient Deity were personally to descend to take in hand the government of human affairs is incontestable." - Ludwig Von Mises.

I watched

the film about a year ago and found it to be highly instructive, but then, I'm not an economist. If 4God really knows his stuff this could be an interesting discussion.

As things stand, I'm in favor of competing currencies.

"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"

"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"

Hey y'all! Don't "eat your own!"

Dennis may be a lefty but he is against corruption and foreign intervention. Remember what Reagan said.
"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul

"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul

A lone representative cannot

A lone representative cannot "enact legislation" by himself. It takes a majority of congress.

"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." -- General John Stark.

"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." -- General John Stark.

I Think The OP Meant "Introduce"

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels



What Kucinich wants is WORSE.

What Kucinich wants is WORSE. Giving Congress the printing press would be much worse than an independent Fed.

The problem is the printing press, period. The solution to stop government spending is not to give government the printing press! It's to have a gold standard so that money can't be printed in endless supply.

Kucinich wants the Democratic Congress to have control of printing press to be able to print money whenever it wants to spend on socialist programs.

Don't think because someone speaks against the Fed that he's on your side. What he wants is SOCIALIZATION. He wants to NATIONALIZE the Fed, and then the entire banking system. With that power, the Democrats would be able to print money endlessly for socialist welfare programs and purchase any industry it wants in pursuit of Kucinich's socialist paradise.

Yes the Fed is evil, but giving Congress the power to print money without commodity backing would be even more hazardous.

Eliminate the Fed by going to a gold standard. Don't just turn the printing press over to Congress.

Kucinich is NOT our friend.

It's not like he has a chance in hell anyway

It's the thought that counts. He's OK, just misguided.

Without fractional reserve lending

you can't have out-of-control spending. Take that away and you rein in Congress.

Fractional reserve lending

is mainly a product of having a fiat currency. That wouldn't change just because the Treasury is the one printing the fiat cash.

And the cash Congress spends doesn't come from fractional reserve lending. It comes from the Fed giving it to the Treasury. They call it loans to the Treasury, but in reality it's just giving it away because the Treasury pays the interest with further money borrowed from the Fed - ad infinitum.

No, that's not correct

Fractional reserve lending is a result of debt money being borrowed into existence which is not what Dennis is proposing. His system would have the government create money to pay for infrastructure and that money would trickle into the economy. As I said in another post, you should watch Money as Debt at:

I think it provides a good explanation of what DK is proposing.


for this explanation. Makes sense.

nice. go dennis! at this

nice. go dennis! at this point... anyone who dislikes the fed is a friend to us.


getting the question "on the table" at this point, is progress. my hope is that we are beginning to see people wakeing up.

" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien

I reject that.

The federal reserve is only a symptom of tyrannical, corrupt socialist government, not the cause of it.

Support the Constitution of the United States

Support the Constitution of the United States

You have in backwards

The Fed is the cause of corrupt, socialist government ... it is the very embodiment of corruption. Take out the Fed and most of our problems would be a lot smaller, assuming we don't replace it with its twin. Remember, the debt we owe is mostly owed to the Fed who do nothing but pull money out of thin air, with which they bribe all politicians willing to do their bidding. Then, they have their lackeys tax our wealth (work) and with it, buy up all the real assets of the country.

The upper echelon of the Fed belong behind bars .... for life. They are murderers, thieves, liars, and cheats.

I didn't understand Rep Kucinich

to say that he wanted to end the Fed, just move it under Treasury's authority. I don't know about you, but I want it GONE!!!


What Kucinich wants accomplishes nothing.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

rep kucinich

i want the fed gone too, but maybe this is a step in the right direction.

maybe putting the fed under the treasury's authority will at least stop the interest payments.

or maybe putting the fed under the treasury will at least make monetary policy a campaign issue every 4 years.

the situation can't get much worse than it already is (i hope).