Critique of Mathematically Perfected Economy
Abstract
I identify and evaluate the four premises underlying Mike Montagne’s Mathematically Perfected Economy™:
1) People trade things that are of equal value. If they trade things that are not equal in value, then one of them is being cheated.
2) Borrowers are trading more money in the future for less money now. It follows from premise #1 that they are being cheated.
3) Any monetary system subject to interest ultimately terminates itself under insoluble debt. It follows from premise #2 that, because the charging of interest is not currently prohibited, the world economy is destined to collapse.
4) There is class conflict between laborers and usurers as they battle over the unearned gain (surplus value) that is the proletariats’ due. By an argument similar to dialectical materialism, as the world economy collapses (see premise #3), the implementation of Mathematically Perfected Economy™ is inevitable.
Mr. Montagne denies that he is a socialist though I view his theory as being akin to Marxism and find fault with all four of his premises.
Read the complete critique at http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/montagne.php





















The text of Montagne's e-mail:
Where\'s your disproof of mathematically perfected economy, Victor?
I think anyone who can\'t carry half an elk 7 miles ought to think twice about calling a guy who can, a socialist. But then again, you don\'t seem to be such a bright guy. Where do you live, Victor? Where\'s your invalidation? What\'s the proof of your idiotic idioms?
We should meet sometime. Not of course to discuss the arguments you don\'t have. You\'re an asshole, Victor. Just a human piece of shit no one with half a brain would even suspect would even try to be accountable for any careless thing they have to say.
But I would quite enjoy knocking your teeth (if you have any) out the backside of your head. :‐)
Just kidding. I know you\'re really quite \"a man,\" in fact an intellectual power to be feared.
But we do want to see your invalidation. We\'ve been waiting for months, Victor, so please don\'t forget.
Last summer I went live with my Critique of Montagne's Mathematically Perfected Economy and posted a link to it on his forum. Over the next four months my post received four comments, two positive and two negative, but both polite. Montagne did not respond.
Apparently, Montagne was not monitoring his own forum because, on 21 September 2008 the thread disappeared and I received this e-mail from Montage.
I did not reply and, three days later, I received this e-mail from Montage.
I have still not replied. What do you guys think? Is a reply necessary?
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
No
I don't think that deserves a response, per se.
Of course, as far as I know Montagne is a nobody, but if you think he has some people paying attention to him and your response is solid, then you might want to publicize it in some way. I don't know how you would do that effectively.
Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) is paying attention
Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) is paying attention to Zarlenga, who is very similar to Montagne, though slightly more intelligent. Zarlenga and Montagne are both advocates of the Debt Virus Theory and have the same basic plan, though Zarlenga can write better and targets a somewhat higher-brow audience.
See my Debate Politics thread: Help me stamp this idiot back into his hole.
So, yes, there are people, even legislators, paying attention to the socialists.
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
I submitted my critique to Strike the Root
I submitted my critique of Montagne to Strike the Root, but Rob said that it was too "inside baseball."
Since he had previously published my Fascism: Socialism With Shareholders, I suspect that this is a euphemistic way of saying that he had not previously been aware that I was blacklisted by the Mises Institute but, having been made aware of that, he was honoring it.
If you know of any other online journals that would be interested in my Critique of Montagne's Mathematically Perfected Economy, please let me know.
Incidentally, I still have lots of bumper stickers reading "Fascism: Socialism With Shareholders," if anybody wants one. Just contact me.
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
After you stating that the
After you stating that the Austrian economic school was a cult with pedophilic overtones I don't really care what you have to say Shaka.
More money today, can either
More money today, can either be spent now, or put aside for the future, at the discretion of the owner.
Therefore, some owners will be some time equally content with the money in the future, and some will be less content that way. Noone can possibly be more content to get it in the future, as those who'd prefer it then can just save what they get now.
Hence, in aggregate, even completely discounting risk, money now is strictly more valuable than money in the future.
Hence the entire premise of 1) and 2) is pure bunk.
Regarding Montagne's first and second premises:
Regarding Montagne's first premise, I write:
"If I buy a candy bar for 89¢, I do so because candy bars are not equal in value to 89¢; they are greater in value, at least to me. Obviously, the candy store owner has just the opposite view – he’d rather have the 89¢. Why does the candy store owner have such a different valuation of the candy bar? Is he just a stupid person who doesn’t know how good they taste? No. It’s because he has a lot of them – whole shelves full. I, on the other hand, have none – and I’m hungry. So we both come away from the trade with something of greater value than what we brought to it.
"Montagne’s first premise is wrong. Neither now nor in the days of barter was it true that 'no one takes from the trade anything but the equal of what they contribute to it.' In fact, they always take something of greater value. It is not because of a vague 'propensity to truck and barter' (Adam Smith) that people enter into trades, but because they specifically intend to come away from the trade with something of greater value than what they brought to it."
Regarding Montagne's second premise, I write:
"Montagne’s second premise is no better. He does not seem to understand the concept of time preference. People value the same item more if they receive it sooner rather than later. How much more determines the rate of interest that they are willing to pay and is the inverse of the mean of the Distribution of Wealth over the Capital Structure, DWCS, as I proved in my Critique of Austrian Economics. In my Rejoinder to Mr. Murphy, I write,
"To get an intuitive feel for what the mean of the DWCS represents, ask yourself, “How much of my wealth is in my house, which is intended to provide shelter for twenty years, how much is in my car, which is intended to provide transportation for five years, and how much is in peaches or fashionable clothes for my girlfriend, which will be valuable for about a week before becoming overripe or going out of style?
"For wealthy people, the mean of their personal DWCS is around twenty years, that is, most of their wealth is in long-term projects. Their interest rate is about 5%, slightly less than what they get on certificates of deposit. For middle-class people, the mean of their DWCS is around five years, that is, most of their wealth is in their car. Their interest rate is about 20%, slightly more than what they pay on their credit cards. For people living in hardscrabble conditions, their horizon does not extend beyond a month and their yearly interest rate is about 1500%. This is slightly more than what they pay at the pawn shop when hocking their possessions.
"So, in answer to Mr. Montagne, when one person loans money to another at interest, it does not imply that the latter is being cheated; only that two people have different time preferences. They made a trade based on that difference in the same way that the candy store owner and I were able to make a trade because we had different valuations of a candy bar. The only thing new about this theory is that they are trading present goods for future goods, whereas the 89¢ and the candy bar that I traded it for both existed in the present."
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
A self-described communist has responded to this paper
A self-described communist has responded to this paper at Debate Politics. His name is Khayembii Communique and he lists his party affilliation as "communist."
If any DPers are interested in lurking or joining and posting a comment, you are welcome to drop by.
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
24 comments and 277 visitors at Debate Politics.
It's shaping up to be quite a debate over there.
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
Couldn't agree more, Shaka
This is more of Engles "scientific" management of the economy, which of course utterly fails in practice. The Soviets thought they could throw the word "scientific" in front of everything to make it sound practical. It amazes me that even today we still have fools in academia believing this crap. We seriously need to get the Austrian economic theory front and center in the United States if we are going to thrive in the future.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
Regarding Engel's scientific socialism, I write:
Drawing a timeline to world-wide economic collapse and calling oneself “mathematically perfected” is very similar to Marx predicting the inevitable collapse of capitalism and calling himself “scientific.”
Joshua Muravchik (2004, p. 60) has written about the “spectacular inversion” of what is meant by the term “scientific socialism:”
"What is science but the practice of experimentation, of hypothesis and test? Owen and Fourier and their [utopian] followers were the real “scientific socialists.” They hit upon the idea of socialism, and they tested it by attempting to form socialist communities. In all, there were scores of these tests in America and England – and all of them failed, utterly and disastrously.
"Then Marx came along and said never mind these experiments at bringing about socialism by human devices, it will be brought about by the impersonal force of history. In other words, under the banner of “science,” Marx shifted the basis for socialism from human ingenuity to sheer prophesy."
http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/montagne.php
However, you conclude, "we seriously need to get the Austrian economic theory front and center in the United States if we are going to thrive in the future." Actually, Austrian economics has problems of its own.
Specifically, I have identified seven serious problems with Austrian economics.
1) As discussed in Section II, Hayek was unclear whether his structure of production represents a yearly flow of goods or a distribution of wealth. Mises and Rothbard, like Hayek, seem to mean one and [I]also[/I] the other. Skousen is at least consistent but, unfortunately, he is consistently wrong. He definitely means the amount of goods flowing by every year. This author’s work (1999) is about stock, not supply.
2) As discussed in Section III, Hayek’s triangle is printed sideways and backwards. The former problem can be corrected by rotating the graph but the latter problem is more fundamental. Hayek is speaking from the perspective of the owner of the final product looking back on his costs of production. He is speaking from Marx’s perspective. The perspective that we want is from right now, at time zero, looking forward into the future.
3) As discussed in Section IV, there must be some temporal measure or the Hayekian’s incessant references to “lengthening the period of production” would not mean anything at all. Their theory of business cycles depends on credit expansions lengthening the period of production and on the inevitable contraction shortening it. It is impossible to talk about something being lengthened or shortened unless one knows how to measure it.
4) As discussed in Section V, Hayekian theory depends entirely too much on the specificity of capital goods. In reality, many companies make products or provide services which are used in all of Hayek’s five stages – and they experience cyclical behavior too. Rothbard was wrong when he said “To the extent that the new money is loaned to consumers rather than businesses, the cycle effects do not occur” (1970, p. 940 footnote).
5) As discussed in Section VI, Garrison’s conceptions of the natural rate of interest is faulty. The Hayekians are naïve to cling to this mythical concept. There is no such thing as a natural rate of interest. In any case, credit limits are more important than interest rates. The necessity of a bust following boom times is adequately explained by the transfer of capital from smaller companies to larger ones.
6) In Garrison’s own words: “the [Hayekian] theory of the business cycle is a theory of the unsustainable boom. It is not a theory of depression per se. In particular, it does not account for the severity and possible recalcitrance of the depression that may follow on the heels of the bust” (2001, p. 120). In 1930, Hayek could explain how the depression started. In 1936, he could not explain why it still persisted. See Section VII.
7) Austrian economists seem naïve because their belief in a natural interest rate implies an ethical judgment on what is natural or unnatural, their discussion of the inevitable collapse of a credit expansion is typically presented as a sort of morality play and because they advocate an impractical 100% reserve requirement based solely on ethical considerations. See Section VIII.
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com
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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com
WOW Shaka WOW how did You arived at those conclusions? WOW
“A depression is a large-scale decline in production & trade...
there is nothing in the nature of a free-market economy to cause such an event.”
-Nathaniel Branden's essay, Common Fallacies About Capitalism
“...From now on depressions will be scientifically created.”
-Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr., 1913, on the Federal Reserve Act
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
& the intelligent are full of doubt". -- Bertrand Russell
"1) People trade things that are of equal value. If they trade things that are not equal in value, then one of them is being cheated."
WOW SHAKA, people do not trade things that are not equal in value.
mms
economist entrepreneur proprietor
sound money economic policy advocate
google! PFMPE and prosper for ever & beyond
mms, economist, entrepreneur, proprietor;
abolish interests on debt policy.
what is mathematically perfected economy™?