So much for Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism"
Submitted by Flame on Fri, 01/23/2009 - 15:19Her claim is that disastrous events, including economic calamities, are used to "shock" the public into accepting the introduction of free market capitalist policies (and that that's a bad thing, in her opinion), such as elimination of government welfare programs and government jobs, deregulation, privatization, elimination of price and wage controls, and free trade. I see the opposite. They've been using this economic situation to bring in more socialism and more regulation. And does she not remember the Great Depression and the New Deal? It's more like Disaster Socialism.
Here is a film of her summarizing her claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJKZSpXDmr8
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Ms Klien has the same confusion I once had.
It centres on the difference between "capitalism" and "corporatism".
Let me use Britain's NHS system as an example. Britain introduced a "socialised" healthcare system after the second world war. Taxpayers paid "National Insurance Contributions" to finance it.
When NHS "reformers" paid private companies the taxpayers money to do NHS work, people complained that the NHS was being "privatised". They didn't stop to consider that people were still paying tax for it!
The NHS is a good example of corporatism. Taxing the public to pay private companies.
Since "privatisation" - really corporatism - NHS standards have dropped off a cliff. Instead of blaming socialism, Brits blame "capitalism".
Sound familiar?
http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
http://lpuk.blogspot.com/
http://northwestlibertarians.blogspot.com/
Margaret Thatcher and Milton Friedman
The selective "De-regulation" of Thatcher and Friedman is not (Austrian) free market capitalism, just as free trade of NAFTA/NAU is managed trade.
This is the same see-saw we always see, back and forth between "left" and "right", all the while promoting statism. I absolutely agree with the OP: I think Naomi Klein is a little behind the ball here, as the "easy money" = "free money" = "free markets" of Greenspan have already been criticized in the media and now the solution offered is "Nationalism" or "Socialization" of "our" banks and businesses.
edit: I refer to implementation of Thatcher/Reagan of Friedman, as the theory is not the same as practice as other posters mention.
edit2: When the British empire was transitioning from colonial imperialism to economic imperialism, "free markets" and "free trade" were the same talking points for their protectionism. It's cyclical. Naomi's just not right at this particular moment.
What do you mean Friedman
was not a free market capitalist? He certainly was - all the way through saying he was for the abolition of the Federal Reserve.
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The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul
i completely
i completely agree.
everything she complains about is due to government. in fact after disasters; its the free market (whats left of it) which helps the people/area.
I like
Naomi Klein. If a real third party arises, I hope she's in.
Weak dude
There seems to be a small contingent of people on the DP who are predisposed to falling for snake oil salesman. I guess it comes with the territory of having one man at the center of the movement. You get those who join because of Ron Paul's ideologically and then you get cult of personality types who don't really understand why they are here.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
Not very nice your honor!
"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
Interesting
How do you square that with the principles of freedom?
Big tent
in a Nation of over 300 million
disaster statism is just fine
I think it is OK to think of it that way.
The issue is she claims Milt Freedman and the Chicago provided the intellectual cover and the story of "free markets" as well as the economic training for the people that were brought to power by our State.
All over the place.
South and Central America, Southeast Asia, etc.
It is worth a read, even if you have a hard time with her nomenclature.
Intellectual "cover"
That's true that the ideas of Milton Friedman did influence the Reagan and Thatcher administrations. Both of them used it in their rhethoric (but unfortunately not in practice).
You may be interested in this criticism of her book
Defaming Milton Friedman
Naomi Klein's disastrous yet popular polemic against the great free market economist: http://www.reason.com/news/show/128903.html
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The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul
no thanks
I am done. I just had to ask.
My point is that she has good points. Her lexicon is not so sharp, but so what?
She describes the functionality of the American Empire well.
Freedman is dead. I don't worship him or condemn him, either.
no thanks
I am done. I just had to ask.
My point is that she has good points. Her lexicon is not so sharp, but so what?
She describes the functionality of the American Empire well.
Freedman is dead. I don't worship him or condemn him, either.
no thanks
I am done. I just had to ask.
My point is that she has good points. Her lexicon is not so sharp, but so what?
She describes the functionality of the American Empire well.
Freedman is dead. I don't worship him or condemn him, either.
I don't know much, but, I know this
The government has grown from 2% of GDP in 1910 to about 35% today.
I know that the financial system is in the process of being nationalized.
The auto makers are being nationalized.
As California goes into default, it too will be nationalized.
"How" is ok to talk about, but what good does it achieve?
The results are above for all to see.
Our government was taken over by their creditors long ago,
The list above is just the next group in the planned sequence.
Do any of the economists state that the above is a plan that has been unfolding for a century or two?
Plain as day....wouldn't you agree?
Once a person is dependent on the government, they are owned by the government and the plan is complete. They can slap a tag on ya and throw you in the pen with the rest. Basically a farm animal waiting for his feed....talk about dependent.
Can't we just tell everyone what is going on?
Isn't the truth more powerful than intellectual debate?
Unify
Klein is ignorant
I was pulling my hair out trying to read her book. Statism is NOT free-markets. It makes no sense to link state coercion and free-markets together like she has.
"Greater than the force of mighty armies is the power of an idea whose time has come"
- Victor Hugo
"Greater than the force of mighty armies is the power of an idea whose time has come"
- Victor Hugo
still appears to be an issue of terminology
She specifically mentions Chicago School of Economics (not free market) and Milt Freedman, and links them to aggressive state-sponsored socio-economic intervention from the US to the target country for the purpose of looting it of its resources.
This is a description of Imperialism.
She states that they use the crisis to lower the resistance to the outside force that is taking the goods. The description is excellent.
The terminology may not be spot on, and that is the rub here, it seems.
I don't believe that's true
I don't believe that's true. See here. The reviewer pulls numerous direct quotes right out of the book where she uses the term "free-market."
Not to mention, Milton Friedman
opposed the invasion of Iraq - said it was "aggression."
-------
The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul
right
I read that already.
I think that Ms. Kline does a poor job with her terminology, as I said.
I read the book, and not the reviews. I don't trust reviews.
Read the book and make up your own mind.
OK
That's fine. I just wanted to point out that she had in fact made numerous uses of the term "free-market." That's all.
flame
you never said if you read the book
No, I haven't.
I've only seen her explain it interviews.
-------
The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul
Excellent!
Disaster socialism. That's more like it.
Someone actually wrote a review that's pretty close to that--they called it Disaster Statism.
Review of book: The Plop Doctrine
http://libertariananarchy.com/2008/11/the-plop-doctrine/
flame, did you read the book?
To call what she was talking about "capitalism" is not accurate, which is why I think she called it "disaster capitalism" but perhaps she should have used a different moniker for it.
She was talking about is perhaps more accurately described as "opportunistic public-private government sanctioned looting."
Capitalism does not require death squads.
Why do you think Rahm Emanuel said it would be terrible to waste a perfectly good crisis?
She was right on the money, and still is.
She includes free-market reforms
such as elimination of price and wage controls, deregulation, reduction of welfare statism, free trade, etc.
-------
The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul
I haven't read the book,
but I've read some articles and listened to a speech by her, and I agree with Flame. It's my understanding that she claims that disasters are used to bring in free-market reforms.
Shes pretty clear about that
in the film someone posted below.
-------
The Fed is not a private bank. PRIVATIZE THE FED!!!
"The Federal Reserve Banks should simply be regarded as governmental agencies." -Murray Rothbard
"I now call the Federal Reserve the fourth branch of government." -Ron Paul