Want Liberty? Move to Qatar or the UAE

Although some of the more Western-friendly gulf states like Qatar, Bahrain and UAE may have some tantalizing financial opportunities, it seems Liberty is sorely lacking, as they are still Islamic states. If you don't cross that fine line, I'm sure you can do well. But should you cross that line, the punishments can be harsh.

You can't even bring a bible into Saudi Arabia, or you'll be arrested. People have been jailed for simply talking about Christianity. Non-Muslims cannot enter Mecca. I am not for religion of any kind, and having it sort of forced upon me, even indirectly, I find unacceptable.

Let's face it, no place is perfect... but I have been living in Thailand since before 9/11. Freedom FROM religion is quite nice here. Buddhists tend to not throw religion in your face at all... they barely even talk about it amongst themselves. Social freedom and tolerance far exceeds that in the US. Taxes are lower. There is a strong manufacturing base here, so we are weathering the Banker Takeover much better. There was plenty of good-paying tech jobs here, at least before the global recession. I used to work for large corporation here in Thailand, with stock options etc., but now my wife and I are starting our own business.

Plenty of gold in gold shops everywhere... almost like 7-11's on nearly every corner...and its mostly 24K. Guns are legal. Yeah, it has a few corrupt politicians... but these guys are small peanuts to whats going on in the US. I mean Thaksin, probably the most famous and prolific pillager, only got away with a couple billion dollars.

The catch is, as a foreigner, you need to either start a business under the BOI system, or marry a Thai to own property. This is good and bad in some ways - bad obviously because of the inconvenience; good as it helps keep the riff-raff and criminals out.

Not so bad for us men, as Thai women are totally hot (in general). Plenty of nice girls, despite what you may hear in the media and from Hollywood. Just stay away from the whores in the city of Pattaya, and Potpong district in Bangkok and you'll be fine. I met my wife, who is a college graduate, in Chiangmai; my favorite city in Thailand, which is located in the cooler northern region. Chiangmai still has a bit of the old culture mixed with modernity, has a slower pace and less stress, and has great weather. Wonderful cultural and natural diversity with many interesting and fascinating Hill-tribes to visit, waterfalls to enjoy, and forest/jungle trails to hike. Beautiful place to live.

Bangkok cops can be dicks, but upcountry, the cops can actually be kinda cool. Never any fear of them entering my house without a warrant, as they did in the US. Although ganja is technically illegal (thanks to pressure from the oppressive US war on drugs), I have seen it grown in the rural areas - heck, it used to be part and parcel of the culture. Local cops know this, and so don't enforce so strictly (per my observance, only if they don't like you). My father-in-law used to grow it, and used it for medicine - he made tea, soups and such to fight pain and certain illnesses.

Aside from a few inconveniences, I like living here. It may not be for everyone, but for me, the positives outweigh the negatives when comparing to the US.

Beware of false flags.

For a minute or two there I forgot that I was sitting in the middle of Rome, while it burns around me.

Sounds like a great place to start a new life. Thanks for the post.

I will try to answer as many as possible, but let me first reiterate a point that I made below.

These countries, like America, are not perfect. America has a higher level of social freedom in some respects, while I have a higher level of social freedom (even as a non-Qatari citizen) in others. For example, I will never get pulled over by the police here, and not just because I am American. That is largely irrelevant. It is because the police do not operate on the premise that I am a suspect simply because I exist, as they do in many cities in America. I have absolutely no fear of police ever entering my home.

On the flip side, as I mentioned, drug penalties are harsher. Indecency laws are stricter.

The rules for non-Qataris are different than Qataris, particularly for women. For non-Qataris, life is pretty normal. Legal rights are similar. Some restrictions still remain in business life, but the progress from a decade ago is phenomenal. The Qataris have literally made up about 150 years of feminist progress in a decade. That may not be fast enough for you, or you may view them as backward because of where they are now, but in political and religious context it is simply amazing.

For Qatari women, life is a bit stricter, which seems counter-intuitive to us. But the ethnic population still holds certain fundamental religious positions closely. These are loosening as well. Most Qatari women do not wear the abaya. Most drive, work, and go to school.

Similar unusual situations exist in other aspects of social life besides female status. Qataris are not allowed to drink, and are punished severely if caught, yet non-Qataris can drink. Clubs operate here. You need a license, as I mentioned to purchase alcohol, but not to drink it. It seems absurd to me to allow non-citizens more freedoms than citizens, but the struggle to integrate cultures continues.

I'm personally not familiar with gun laws out here (sorry!) but I will look into that get you an answer. I don't think there is a complete firearm ban but I will have to check. I live in a gated community with zero crime, security guards, and I rarely lock my front door before I leave for work, so I never really considered the need for a firearm. Besides, I'm an ex-Marine and I prefer to kill people with my bare hands :)

I suggest visiting many countries, not just the two I listed here. You don't need a visa to come here on a USA passport, you can buy one at the airport upon arrival, but it's a bit of a pain.

Line of work: I am a computer programmer for a private company.

Finally, let me reiterate again, that the point of this post was to show you that economic freedoms are alive and well, yet in a place that the majority of Americans (but no Paulians) would view as the enemy of freedom. It is a good life out here, but it certainly isn't perfect. Far from it.

I'm still looking for my Rothbardian paradise, but I feel certain about one thng, it will not be in America. Not because I'm not there to fight for it (I do donate to the LP and Ron Paul and Mises Inst, and others) but because the American government has made rational free market economic activity impossible. Only a total collapse of the American economic system will bring about the change needed. And maybe that collapse is coming sooner rather than later.

-David in Qatar

May I ask what occupation you have? What is the predominate language in UAE and Qatar. Is english widely spoken? What is the treatment of women like?

Freedom means 2 things. There's economic freedom, where we lag behind only a few (UAE, Qatar, Monaco) and there's social freedom, where we lag behind a few more (Netherlands, Switzerland).

But both are so dear to me and most Americans that we can't sacrifice one for the other. I would absolutely guarantee that you will never find a better mix of both social and economic freedoms as you do in the states. Canada's probably a close second.

If there were a magical land where you could truly be more free in both respects as you can in the US...I'd be paddling there tomorrow.

treated? Are women 2nd class citizens in Qatar & UAE? Your answer will be "YES" I will bet ya. Oh, Freedom is a longing for many & these 2 countries willnot do for "Freedom loving Families." What say you David?

No grass to cut, no leafs to rake, no skiing, no clouds, no mountains.

------
Conspiracy theory addicts destroy our movement from within.
Let Reason triumph over unreason.

The area seems to be unstable.

Questions non sarcastic:

Do they allow guys with long hair there?
Do they allow rock music, etc?
Do they allow mixing relations with their people, not marital necessarily?

: - ) just some fun questions.