before the SHTF or the complete collapse/depression? For months I've been hearing it's either days, weeks, months. Obviously, that's very vague and not at all helpful in planning and preparing. Can anyone here pin it down a bit for me?
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Fits and starts, not overnight all at once, and not smooth.
If you look at any progression, things move in waves, punctuated with periods of stability. You don't go from here to there instantaneously, overnight. And only if you step back and take a long term view does it look like the move from here to there was smooth.
And when you are watching on a day to day basis, it will be like waiting for water to boil. The time frame is too big to notice the overall picture when watching from day to day. You just see the minutia, without a map to show where you are and where your final destination is.
The depression we are entering could easily be a multi decade long event before a temporary bottom is reached. Housing prices are probably only one third of their way to bottom. Unemployment might be 10% now, on its way to 30% or 40% or even 50% at the bottom. Bankruptcies have just begun.
And when we do reach bottom, don't expect an instant, or for that matter any return to boom times. One significant fact that most people seem to miss is that this financial collapse was triggered by energy constraints. Yes the monetary system was an accident waiting to happen, but the underlying cause of the contracting economic pie is lack of energy to keep the industrial age running. If you look at the economic growth from the 1930's, expect that to unwind in a disorderly fashion between now and 2030, so that we end this first major down wave with worse standards of living that were experienced at the bottom of the last depression. Most people alive today can expect economic contraction for the great majority of their lives.
Politically, I don't think the US federal government will survive. It will go the way of the USSR which collapsed in the 1990's under even less severe financial conditions. I doubt that those in power will give up easily, however, and the possibility for civil war is very high. And even if the federal government goes out of existence peacefully, there will be struggles for political control, possibly violent, in the new confederations that different States join. Expect major violence before 2020.
The whole process is driven by nature in an attempt to bring the human population back into balance with the ability of the earth to sustain our species. The population collapse associated with these events will be beyond anything that you can possibly imagine or accept from the perspective of today. Just consider that the world population before the industrial age was under 1 billion and we now are 6.5+ billion, all heavily dependent for survival on a crumbling system.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
Well I understand
what you are saying. I decided to calm down and pace myself. Do what you can and keep your eyes and ears open. If bank failures start increasing rapidly, if you have more closed commercial property than open in your area.
If you no longer have neighbors and their houses are vacant. If every person you talk to says things are bad (sheep have awakened). If grocery stores post security guards at the front doors. If you see homeless people walking or hitch hiking. What I see is there is NO extra cash. They may be printing money but there is NO cash around. People have stuff but no cash. People all around me are losing their jobs, so for me things have already started. Certain areas of the country are in big trouble. If it has not affected you yet then you still have time. I don't see it as a blanket problem where everywhere and everyone will be affected at the same time. It is like a infection that starts at foot and is working its way up to your heart. Good luck
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
It will be hard
but there is a difference between collapse and very hard times... remember even with unemployment at 15%, 85% are still working. The money is out there and at record levels, the credit is what isnt around anymore...most regular people didnt, and still dont live on cash as much as credit. Please dont get me wrong this will be a very tough time for many many people, but a collapse of the system still looks very unlikely...Good Luck
So much isn't making sense
or adding up to me. The worse the economic news, the more the stock market goes UP?? I do believe it's being manipulated, but how long can they keep that going?
I am going to be in the minority and agree with rogue ...
I give it a decade or two ...
Until then the economy will be stagnant ...
while the governments of the world build up debt ...
Picture the seventies only slightly worse ...
At the end of that time frame ...
There will be competing currencies and we will move towards freedom or there will be global facism.
Of course I am an optimist so you know where I think we are headed.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
In my opinion...
We don't have long. If I had to guess I would say within the next 6 months the house of cards is going to topple...
There ARE things you can do to prepare, if your interested check out my site:
www.prepareforandgainfrom.com
I checked out your site
It's nice, clean, clear, crisp, orderly. I like it. I would ask though, who are you, where is your authority on the topic etc. Your selling a $5.00 ebook which actually sounds good, I read all the chapter highlights. But you didn't make the deal for me because I have no idea of your background. I hope this is received as constructive critism and not an attack. Good luck.
!!!Truth is treason in the EMPIRE OF LIES!!!
" Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of they day; but a series of oppresssions...pursued unalterably, through every change of ministers, too plainly proove delibrate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery..."
Tho
A very long time
We will more than likely see a loss in the US standard of living but a complete collapse is not realistic and the numbers dont support it....I may be wrong but it appears very unlikely that a complete collapse is in the cards...
There is too much cash available to be invested... that must disappear before a collapse can occur...plan wisely but if you bet it all on a collapse you are likely to find yourself on the losing side. Dont hate me for an opinion!
But isn't that the problem...
too much cash, what will it be worth? And who is going to fund the government by buying T-bills anymore? I think too many are learning the truth about the FED scheme for the confidence in the FRN to continue. Then you have currencies like the yuan ready to replace the US dollar as the reserve currency. I don't see how the dollar can survive this onslaught from all sides.
Yuan
There is next to no chance the Yuan can replace the dollar...There just arent enough Yuan out there... one of the causes of this recent credit crunch is the fact the the Chinese Govt didnt want to see the Yuan increase in value so they weren't able to sell the dollars they were bringing in and buy Yuan... if they had done that the dollar would weaken and Yuan streghten and it would be more difficult to export their goods...This lead to artificially low int rates in the US.
Because of this trade imbalance they invested in dollar assets; one of which is long term US debt...so far they have made a huge return on their investment and have been protected from a weakening dollar.. its a very savvy play but it means the Yuan has no capacity to replace the dollar... at least not anytime soon.
We dont have long kill yourself now
hurry
and some say Limbaugh is a blowhard....wow
Around April!
when most of the T-Bills come due!
Three weeks....
from yesterday.
Don't know
They've saved some time by propping the dollar up temporarily with the bailouts but it's crumbling again.
Just keep stocking up on necessities and take full advantage of what time there is.
Most people say something big will happen this summer and that sounds about right. Obama will get his trillion and that will last a few months before we go down hard.
This was a strong country but it can't continue to withstand the amount of abuse these short-sighted and extremely ignorant Keynesians are laying on it..
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
It looks like something will happen in March,
according to the Global Europe Anticipation Bulletin. I don't know who this group is, but their track record is incredible.
They state that in March there will be a "tipping point" in which the general public will begin to fully realize that we are in a situation much worse than the 1930's.:
http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-30-is-available!-Global-systemic-crisis-New-tipping-point-in-March-2009-When-the-world-becomes-aware-that-this_a2567.html
Make sure to read the part about government nationalization of pension funds. They point out that Argentina just did that very thing. I also remember hearing a couple of months ago that the Dems were talking about doing it here as well.
the average Joe will really
the average Joe will really start to know something is wrong by april May.. the full breakdown by july-September..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"Ineptocracy: a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confisc
The question is
do they want to create a depression as they are responsible for such things.
I suggest that they don't "need" a depression now and this is why.........
They already nationalized the financial industry...mission accomplished.
They nationalized the auto industry..........mission accomplished
They are in the process of "bailing out" states as in California...thus the states won't be states anymore....just be part of the federal government....mission accomplished.
Through two of the above achievements the federal government, in their own loving way, owns the unions now.
Auto workers and state employees are major league union folks and the government owns them now....isn't this cool?
Obama can just play hoop for the next four years...the deed is DONE.
I think due to the fact that you all watch enough TV and read enough newspapers and watch enough Alex Jones that the government can get what a depression would give them by just "threatening us" with depression.
They have been threatening us with one for awhile now and look at the punch list....hell we are all ready to move in now aren't we?
For hundreds of years the bankers have gained control of countries and populations through DEBT. They use this technique because it WORKS.
If you owe me $50,000 and you can't make the payments I get to OWN your a$$. I get to feed you what I want and store you where I want.
If i am the one who gives you the money to eat and have shelter then, I own you. That is their plan.
1910 fed government GDP 2%
2009 fed govt GDP 35% and expanding as we speak.
Pretty soon they will be feeding us and housing us...is that enough POWER TO HAVE OVER US?
Instead of most of us being DEPENDENT on the government...ALL OF US will be dependent on the government....tell the truth...it is the only thing that will help.
Shut off the GD TV. The entire effing depression has started happened and ended on Fox effing News....shut it the F off. They told you to stop buying cars and you did.
They told you to buy houses and you did....stop doing what they tell you to do and tell everyone the truth.
Shut off the TV.
Unify
'Cut The Cord' Of The Idiot Box ...
...[break out of the 4 corners we put ourselves in] ... is a great start, but the alternative media is not the bottom line alternative.
' ... clear your heart ...'
Critical Thinking and Discernment is key.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/79837#comment-864816
See Truth
............. Know Truth
...............................Speak Truth
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/79769
Firmly hold your Cool Hand steady.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/80451#comment-872010
exactaly
why i dont borrow money or take out loans or have credit cards(thanks to my dads advise). if you owe somebody, you are OWEned by them. i hear ya there for sure!
"The state is the great myth where everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Frederic Bastiat
Hyperinflation starts end of 2009
10-30 Year treasury bonds will break and rates will start to rocket up.
1 year Bonds will be kept at zero.
Price inflation will begin to enter the market.
Game over started on the failure of Lehman.
Just be prepared and go
Just be prepared and go about your business. Use your spare time to acquire new skills and learn about your surroundings. It WILL NOT be the end of the world. I think. So we will still be here. Albeit... many unemployed. But that is when we must come together and help one another. Together we can do it. We do not need Obama and his minions in the so-called congress.
Does my burka make my butt look fatwa?
Does my burka make my butt look fatwa?
amen to that
For example I am creating a whole healthcare system on the internet. So when you hurt your back or your eyes go, you can fix em at home for about 20 bucks instead of 2000 bucks our healthcare system charges to not help you.
This is a time of opportunity/ Think about how ironic it is that we have food shortages and high unemployment at the same time. What if us unemployed people started growing food! What a strange concept.
Anywa, its always good to know that I'm not alone in supporting the notiion that individuals using their brains can take care of themselves, even though it will be hard when we've been trained to be helpless.
But we are very blessed with incredible potential, and we can do it. Who cares about the damn stimulus package. Just get rid of all your damn dollars and get real stuff (like food, gold, skills, etc). let the idiots lose all their money, and when they lose their houses, just buy then for a bargain with your gold.
i'm half kidding, so no offense to anyone.
I want to know more!
I devoted my life to healthcare, only to awaken to discover I was a data entry unit for the medical experiments run by the NWO. Rude awakening! What have you got going? Eyes are my thing, if you need any input.
And I know you are kidding, but as someone on the verge of losing a house because I won't toss a disabled vet who doesn't pay rent on time or all of it....it hurts. I am doing all I can to be a good person to this poor little asleep man and his family, but I did not intend to be a landlord, I intended to sell that house. I cannot afford 2 mortgages. I am not trying to complain, just pointing out that a lot of "jokes" hurt real people who are doing what they can to stay afloat and not sell their soul.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Wow- THATS a good question
Lots of variables at play. Are you one of the 48% of employed Americans who fear losing their job? Are you unemployed? Homeowner ? Debt ? etc. Where do you live? Innercity, suburbs, rural? For many Americans "s" HAS ALREADY "htf". People are becoming suicidal, criminally minded and gettin' religion. As far as defining the times, like the recession phase, we'll probably be a year into this new depression before its admitted that we are officially in it. If you live in the city though, the time is now to have a well put together bug-out bag and a list of people that can help if your definition of s h t f arrives.
How can we finance a $2 Trillion deficit?
The answer is: we can't! Crank the printing presses into overdrive, and there goes the dollar....boom! That is the scenario and when this starts, it could be over in a week or two. They will be no time to prepare in that short time frame. When?....this year? possibly if oil goes back up, it will happen faster.
This Interview helps explain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkG81PKny8Y&feature=related
who knows for sure?
i dont know that anyone could put a date on it. a time period maybe, but it depends on what happens, which of course does not look good. of course i hardly have the knowledge to speak on the matter.
"The state is the great myth where everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Frederic Bastiat
Three and a half years
After he signs a seven year peace treaty with Israel and promises to rebuild Solomon's Temple :)
Not according to the guy who has been correct every single time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhOC3iCvTk
The scary thing is that he says it will be YEARS before we emerge from the collapse. The government has found its solution to the entitlement dilemma...
"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy
"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."
I wouldn't hold my breath
.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
March, maybe April
Disclosures come out when corporations and pension fund investors have to report their 2008 results. I heard this last night on Coast2Coast. I think that's when reality will really sink in.
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