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VIDEO: Dear Religion: leave science and education to the rest of us....

cool education vs religion video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qu1uzoIM0g

-bd



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I would like to point out

that creationist have been using this message for years. We refute an aspect of evolution (like the embryo has gill slits) and they still teach it in the books, teach it in the collages, and then say I do not understand science.

Well I guess it is nice to see that you all are starting to use a creationist message:)

Funny how a video about

Funny how a video about clueless lay people in their armchair who use opinion about scientific theories they never studied and clearly don't understand draws out a bunch of those exact people...

Excellent video by the way, it's sad that even this doesn't seem to get through though.

My understanding of the Bible

(original manuscripts) supports the fact that the earth and the dinasaurs are much older than 6,000 years. As a matter of fact; I believe the Bible, science, and history generally support each other on most Biblical, scientific and historical facts. The confusion begins when the atheists, and the Biblically illiterate start throwing in their 2 cents based on loosely woven theories.

Christianity isn't a religion, it is a reality. Not all people choose reality. But that doesn't make it less real.

Several etymological problems with what you just said:

1. You, nor anyone else in the world, has the original manuscripts to the Bible. Especially for the Genesis stories as they were verbally handed down, codified much later and with many different versions. Of the writings that exist, they were compiled, edited and bits were added in Nicea.

2. Nothing in the Bible supports your statement about the age of the earth, and nothing contradicts it. Any thoughts otherwise are conjecture based on assumptions like "How long is a day to God?"

3. You may "believe" that the Bible, science and history agree with each other, but that would be an absolutely unsupported and unsubstantiated claim. Even experts who want the stories to be true are admitting there is no evidence for the Jews being slaves in Egypt or the exodus, there is no evidence of David being a great king over all of Israel, and even that the 12 tribes of Israel are actually connected to astrology and not real tribes. There is very little that the Bible and archeaology have agreed on, aside from some basic locations of stories.

4. (This is just an issue with conjecture) Atheistic claims have nothing to do with the authenticity of Bible stories. If they are true, and there is evidence, then that evidence needs to be presented. Also, most atheists I know, and I know quite a few, are practically Bible experts. Your assumption again that they are illiterate is unfounded. And finally, athiests (hate that term) are not making theories about the Bible. Science tests theories about observed phenomenae. When and how that intersects with the Bible is incidental.

5. You need to redefine "reality" if you are going to make a claim such as your last statement - and support it. The definitions and linguistic history of the word "reality" does not correspond to your claim. However, the basis of Christianity does conform to the definition and etymology of the term "religion". So, if you are going to reverse the meanings of the words, you better have a lot of backup.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

I am going to address item

I am going to address item #3. The fact is that the Bible is one most accurate ancient documents that we have. While it is true that there are many things that have not yet been confirmed through archaeology, this does not mean that they are not true. There have been numerous instances where the Bible was thought to be wrong or in error only to discover that it was, in fact, correct. For example, an early criticism was that the Mosaic law was too complex for the time in which it was supposed to be written. This has since been completely refuted as the library at Ebla contained a huge and complex law system that predated the Mosaic law by centuries.

While there is no proof of the things in the Bible, there is also very little anymore that directly contradicts it either. The Bible has been proven so accurate that many archaeologists now consult it first when starting a new dig as it is proving itself to be quite reliable.

Further, every book in the Old Testament except for the book of Ester have been found in the Dead Sea scrolls with only minor typographical errors from the manuscripts currently used in translation. This means that the version of the documents we have today are incredibly close to the original manuscripts themselves -- better than any other ancient manuscript by several orders of magnitude.

This does not address the issue of what it actually teaches about life, but I have found the wisdom in its pages to explain the actions of people very well. Read Ecclesiastes or Proverbs for some excellent examples (and advice).

For me, the historical accuracy, textual reliability, and cultural awareness of the Bible all point to its value as a book to discover truth. When combined with my life experiences and seeing how knowing Jesus has transformed my life and guided me in how to live, I have a solid foundation for my faith.

Thanks for the reply.

Khomar,

I don't really have the time right now to go sentence by sentence to refute, but I'll hit a few points.

"The fact is that the Bible is one most accurate ancient documents that we have. While it is true that there are many things that have not yet been confirmed through archaeology, this does not mean that they are not true."
---I cannot and will not agree to this. You state a "fact", but I have never heard that supported, at least not with logical evidence. Also, you are missing the point of science, especially archaeology. Archeaologist do not randomly try to confirm things. However, the problem is we have no idea of knowing how many people have tried to confirm a Bible story and failed. It could happen a few times or a few thousand - we have no way of knowing because no one ever writes about or admits their failures. I agree that we cannot confirm something that has not been tested and had refutations invited, but by that same reasoning we cannot claim Bible stories are true without confirmed and peer-reviewed evidence.

"For example, an early criticism was that the Mosaic law was too complex for the time in which it was supposed to be written. This has since been completely refuted as the library at Ebla contained a huge and complex law system that predated the Mosaic law by centuries."
---I've never heard that criticism, so methinks you are creating a strawman. What does the complexity of a system of rules have to do with anything? Are you saying humans were not as smart then? I disagree. Also, your critique of Mosaic law has nothing to do with the accuracy of the Bible because it has nothing to do with a refutation of validity. I don't get your reasoning at all on this. Also, going back centuries from when Moses (supposedly) lived, there would be no written language, at least none discovered yet because it would predate Babylonian cuniform.

"While there is no proof of the things in the Bible, there is also very little anymore that directly contradicts it either. The Bible has been proven so accurate that many archaeologists now consult it first when starting a new dig as it is proving itself to be quite reliable."
---The first line is a fallacy - the correllation does not imply the conclusion that the stories are true. The second line is utterly false. Unless, of course an archaeologist is starting with a theory based on a Biblical story. Then, you are just being misleading in your statement.

"Further, every book in the Old Testament except for the book of Ester have been found in the Dead Sea scrolls with only minor typographical errors from the manuscripts currently used in translation."
---This, is complete and utter hogwash. I call LIE on this one. I read the first book about the scrolls when they came out. I was really young (as in under 12) but fascinated as soon as I heard they were discovered. There are many authors and stories in the scrolls not included in the current canon and nothing that confirmed the editing done at the Council of Nicea. I don't know where you heard this - but find the person and slap them silly.

"This does not address the issue of what it actually teaches about life, but I have found the wisdom in its pages to explain the actions of people very well. Read Ecclesiastes or Proverbs for some excellent examples (and advice)."
---This has nothing to do with historocity of the Bible and I can learn from German Fairy Tales just as much.

"For me, the historical accuracy, textual reliability, and cultural awareness of the Bible all point to its value as a book to discover truth."

"Historical Accuracy" - As of now very little. No Moses, No Abraham, No David, No Exodus, No Samson, No City of Nazareth, No slaughtering of the children by Herod, etc....
"Textual Reliability" - I have no idea what this means. If you are speaking of linguistic or contextual integrity, then your conflict is with the translators. I know of no one, not even fundamentalists in my life, that would claim the language of the BIble throughout the ages has remained unchanged.
"Cultural Awareness"?? -- OK, seriously... What does this mean? Did you get these terms from some sort of apologist kit or something? Cultural awareness? Like the Biblical teaching that it is OK to kill infidels (aka people with different religions or none)? Do you even know that the original commandment was not: "do not kill", it was actually "do not kill another Israelite" and later on the Old Testament commands the Isrealites to kill any infidel in their land? You knew that right?

Thanks for the challenge. I think you need to understand what you are saying and make sure you are just not using rote statements.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

I do not have time right now

I do not have time right now to discuss each point raised, but here are a couple points and clarifications:

The example of Ebla is an older one, admittedly, but it was once a complaint levied against the Bible. Another example was the claim in the Bible of Babylon having three kings. I do not have the specifics on hand, but historians have discovered that there was in fact a political system established in Babylon where the father and (I believe) his two sons shared thrones across the Empire, each ruling his own area.

Upon looking into the Dead Sea Scrolls, I see that I was both right and wrong:

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm

The Dead Sea Scrolls can be divided into two categories—biblical and non-biblical. Fragments of every book of the Old Testament (Hebrew canon) have been discovered, except for the book of Esther. Now identified among the scrolls are 19 fragments of Isaiah, 25 fragments of Deuteronomy and 30 fragments of the Psalms. The virtually intact Isaiah Scroll, which contains some of the most dramatic Messianic prophecy, is 1,000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls

The significance of the scrolls relates in a large part to the field of textual criticism. Before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible were Masoretic texts dating to 9th century. The biblical manuscripts found among the Dead Sea Scrolls push that date back to the 2nd century B.C.E. Before this discovery, the earliest extant manuscripts of the Old Testament were in Greek in manuscripts such as Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. Although a few of the biblical manuscripts found at Qumran differ significantly from the Masoretic text, most do not. The scrolls thus provide new variants and the ability to be more confident of those readings where the Dead Sea manuscripts agree with the Masoretic Text or with the early Greek manuscripts.

The amazing thing here is how accurate most the "modern" manuscripts were compared to the ancient counterparts.

"Cultural awareness" was the best I could come up with at that point in time. Basically what I was trying to say is that it describes human nature extremely well. The examples throughout the Old Testament of people's successes and failures resonate strongly with what I see in life. In fact, I find it curious that while most ancient cultures exalted their leaders, the Bible makes a point of demonstrating the failures of their national heroes along with their victories. This to me indicates an honesty and accuracy widely missing from ancient writings.

And yes, I knew about the command for the ancient people of Israel to kill everyone in Palestine. There were reasons for this including the absolute depravity of the people who once lived in Palestine whose rituals included child sacrifice.

Thanks again - well done

1. Ebla & 3 Kings - I honestly have no idea what you are trying to prove. You say that the complexity of a rulebook "was once a complaint levied against the Bible". I would think that this was a "begging the question" complaint that a Biblical apologist raised themselves, it just has that smell. However, I've never heard of it before, so it could be an actual criticism from a realist of some form and I will have to investigate. I've seen a lot of Biblical criticism, and I have never read someone use that reasoning before of it being "too complex". The Babylonian Kings have nothing to do with the historocity of the Bible, with the exception of a tiny factoid - it proves nothing other than real people did tell and write the stories, nothing more. I never said that no part of the Bible was true or involved actual people or places. In fact, I admitted there is some agreement in locations and people, but the actual events is another matter.

2. "The scrolls thus provide new variants and the ability to be more confident of those readings where the Dead Sea manuscripts agree with the Masoretic Text or with the early Greek manuscripts.
The amazing thing here is how accurate most the "modern" manuscripts were compared to the ancient counterparts."
---I think you are misreading that a little. It doesn't confirm that all the Greek manuscripts are supported by the earlier ones, just that scholars can be more confident "where the Dead Sea manuscripts agree" - in just a few fragments. So, your concurrent statement that the modern manuscripts are amazingly accurate is unfounded.

3. Every religious text (I'm including Greek plays and poems and Norse poems since they were done as religious storytelling) "describes human nature very well". Actually, I would give the Greek plays the upper hand on that one. Even the Egyptian tales were morality based. There is nothing special about the Bible - it has this in common with most fables and codified stories throughout the entire world - and the Chinese were much more advance in terms of written language. It's called literature.

Also, there are no "national heroes" in the Bible - only tribal stories. And, have you ever heard of a Greek Tragic Hero?

4. No, the command wasn't to kill Palestinians. The commandment was that it was OK to kill everyone who wasn't an Israelite - but if you kill a fellow tribesman you are a murderer. And, more specifically the Old Testament god tells the Israelites it is their duty to kill ALL non-Israelites/Infidels in the lands they want to conquer, not just Palestinians. (unless they convert of course. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?...)

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

But my pastor said so!

and i give him lots of money to we can continue to spread the truth!

Glad someone is willing to refute this guy

Thanx for taking the time to write all that down!

Proverbs 31:6 is prolly the only verse I will follow

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts."

Of course I do like the verses about unicorns too

Thanx!

For taking the time to logically respond to that post, I just didn't have the time or energy today to argue with someone who still believes in ancient superstitions....

What is in you mind?

"Christianity isn't a religion, it is a reality. Not all people choose reality. But that doesn't make it less real."

Well, I do think that is your own reality. I just point out that mental institutions are full of people who have their own reality.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Why did evolution stop?

PS:adaptation is not evolution.

Since we still have apes why aren't they in different stages of evolution as they develop into the human race?

Did you even watch the video!?!?

You're saying the equivalent of "BRIDGE!!!" when you're playing five card draw...

Either study it and then comment, or leave education to scientists...your pastor is not an educator!

Maybe

Maybe you should check again next friday, they may have evolved in that time. /end sarcasm.

"The credit expansion boom is built on the sands of banknotes and deposits. It must collapse.", www.mises.org

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

Do you have any

Do you have any understanding of evolution? Evolution is an ongoing process. Apes merely diverged from a common ancestor they share with modern humans. It doesn't mean they didn't evolve, only that we took a different path, which is why there are different animals at all. By your logic, there should only be one species of animal, which is absurd.

"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta

Thumbs

UP

bilgepumper

thanks for posting

---------------
“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement” - Thomas Jefferson

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Kent Hovind

has a great Creation Series of 8 dvds that explain the science of creationism.

Kent Hovind

Oh, never mind.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

How about I....

Disprove two "theories" right now.

The Big bang theory. EASY! Law of conservation of momentum. K done with that one.

Evolution of man from apes. The eye. The funny thing is if anyone bothers to read Darwin he disproves himself in his own writings. "The eye of course is far to complex an organ to be explained by evolution" There is more evidence of course. But be careful the religion of Darwin is a rather vicious cult.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

I do not

recall saying anything even remotely resembling that? Do you?

But I will answer none the less, God is capable of anything. Including being completely unfathomnable by the meager human mind.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

amen,

to your answer.
may your path always be true.

" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien

Which eye?

There are a lot of different kinds of eyes. Human eyes are lousy compared to those of a mantis shrimp. Eyes have evolved separately lots of different times. Eyes evolve easily because a simple light-sensitive patch has survival value.

Did you listen to the video? Just because you have difficulty sitting in your easy chair and figuring out how it happened does not mean it did not happen.

Check out this video.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

ahhh

There are level of evolution what you are referring to is along the lines of adaptation.

I was very specific in my reference "ape to man" Which is absurd to say the least.

Minor Adaptation does happen, random accidental creation of complex genetic structures does not.

You can argue that all you like but it is entirely beyond the ability of anyone to prove. That is called blind faith. I will admit I also have blind faith at least in the view of unfaithful.

I dont recall whom it was but I believe he was a physicist who wrote a book which proved the existance of god through energy, wish I could recall that tidbit, I do not know the validity of his book but then again I myself do not need to.

Oh and in Darwins:The origin of life I believe the eye your asking for is the sparrows eye.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

Which eye?

There are a lot of different kinds of eyes. Human eyes are lousy compared to those of a mantis shrimp. Eyes have evolved separately lots of different times. Eyes evolve easily because a simple light-sensitive patch has survival value.

Did you listen to the video? Just because you have difficulty sitting in your easy chair and figuring out how it happened does not mean it did not happen.

Check out this video.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

silly boy,

if it is your intention to prove what we don't know....your effort is silly.
try this one.
we don't know why the light particals that are shining on you right now....are not tearing you to pieces.
"knowledge is power, action is love"

" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien

complicated way,

to explain Deism. I am a Deist. it can be considered a religion.
I consider myself a "spiritual Deist" I discovered Deism while doing research about the founding fathers. and I found and adopted thier wisdom. maybe you will too.
http://www.moderndeism.com/html/deism_defined.html

" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien