Romans 13 for Non Believers (OK, it not really about Religion, but about Free Government, for everyone)
Submitted by TxRedneck on Mon, 02/02/2009 - 12:00
Are you a so called "Non Believer" but lover of Liberty? Maybe in truth, you're really a believer, just not of the kind of Christianity that the Non Profit Organizations preach.This is Romans 13 for all of you whom do not believe people should submit to the Power of Government as the Bible tells you...
PS Sorry if I've offended anyone here. If you do not seek a government of Freedom from Tyranny, please disregard this video and post.
»
I am truly speechless
I am truly speechless thinking that your friends could have EVER even insinuated that you "misunderstood" anyhting about the bible.
You seem to know it all and as you stated, "I don't even have the basic understanding of it". I suppose I was mistaken, I musta been reading Playboy and didn't notice.
crazyrustyforpresident
crazyrustyforpresident
so
hahahah...so I am "ignorant and unprepared" to have any discussions about the bible.
Kinda sounds like the answer from a know it all christian that spreads gods word by berating others and speaking condescendingly so you feel your little surge of supposed power. I take it you are the kind that goes to some church and plays the "jesus is a rock star "game...you know the one I'm talking about. You stand around and tell everyone how intelligent you are because you know the bible so well and you personally know gods will and it makes you feel as if you are somehow more of a favorite of jesus. You leave church patting yourself on the back chuckling as to how much you "educated" everyone else.
You rank right in there with the Obama roadees.
You go on to say the bible may or may not be true but use the premise of Adam and Eve to dictate we are all sinners? WOW!!! And you ay I take things out of context......
yeah...yeah...whatever.
crazyrustyforpresident
crazyrustyforpresident
hahahah...so I am "ignorant
Are you trying to say that someone who is knowledgeable of something can't recognize when someone else isn't displaying knowledge about that same thing? You've displayed quite clearly in your comments that you lack a lot of very basic Biblical knowledge. Is it wrong for me to point that out?
I'd have to look back at what I specifically wrote to be sure, but if I in fact was attacking you personally rather than your statements, I'm very sorry. I try to refrain from personal attacks.
I don't go to church.
I like to discuss the Bible. I certainly don't try to tell people how intelligent I might think I am...that would be a waste of time. As far as God's will, I've already mentioned before that much of His will is clearly stated in the Bible. Reading the Bible certainly doesn't make me "more of a favorite of jesus".
I read the Bible. I read other books by people that study the Bible. I discuss the Bible with a few close friends. We share things we've learned about it with each other. They've shown me where I have misunderstood things before, and I've been able to show them where they have misunderstood things, and I've learned much from other viewpoints of various authors who have studied the Bible. My goal is to understand the Bible correctly, as much as I possibly can. I'll never perfectly understand all of it and I will likely slack off when studying it in the future as I have done in the past...this is not something to pat myself on the back about.
...okay...
I certainly believe the Bible is true. For those who don't believe it is true, I will sometimes say something like "may or may not be true", or about God, "may or may not exist", or variations of that, since I can't prove to them that it is true or that God exists, and they can't prove that it's not true and that God doesn't exist. I'm sorry I didn't state it in a way that would have made more sense to you.
just glad that my unbelief
just glad that my unbelief could be of such service to you...I get a real fuzzy feeling all over knowing either way, I am doing your gods will.
crazyrustyforpresident
crazyrustyforpresident
You once again
You once again misunderstand. Opposing God isn't doing His will. God's will is done despite your opposition to Him and His will. God takes the evil and ugly and changes it into good and beauty. You can't do God's will by opposing God's will. God can use your opposition to do good, though.
Why don't you reply to the comment you're actually replying to instead of creating an entirely new comment thread?
for gcopenhaver
I too, had to spend alot of time dispelling years of indoctrination, only mine was the christian dogma that I was forced to grow up with in a bible beating family. So yeah, I have spend alot of time reading 13 different versions of the bible...trying to PROVE the text. That's what led me to see the inaccuracies of it.
If you program a computer that 1+2=5, then all your calculations from the beginning are gonna be off but you would be complacent with it because of an incorrect premise.
If this almighty god is so smart, why would he need an instruction manual called the bible to have communication with mankind. The movie would be a better form of communication...(a booming voice from the heavens complimented by some holographic vision in the sky).
It just doesn't make logical sense to me that this guy in the sky knows everything from the beginning to the end of times, knows who's gonna survive or not, knows he will defeat his arch nemesis, the devil, and it is all a predestined package that is even in writing? How do you relate that to free will. If all of this, is in fact, gods will, then NO ONE has any free will. If it is all gods will, then being a non believer is gods will.
You say I take things out of context. Here's another out of context question. A supposed guy named moses kills a guy and goes on to become one of gods greatest talents? Look at the CONTEXT of that story and it is illogical, like so many other things in the bible. You berate me about fallen angels and such, okay, let's go to something more contextual..George Bush just killed over 1 million innocent men, women and children in Iraq in the name of some god that spoke to him in his head saying, Georgie, I want you to go and kill those turrurists"...Do you really feel a love for him as your bible commands you to do? Forgiveness and love feelings do nothing for the situation but give YOU a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside. This god of the bible sure does like soap opera drama and death and famine and "the testing" of people....even though he ultimately knows the outcome? Sounds like the father that beats the shit out of his children cause "he loves them"...
If it works for you, more power to you....but please tell me how wonderful of a world would we live in if everyone on the planet lived by one simple rule, which is....If you have a belief in God, keep it to yourself...
By the way, I really love the amount of time you take to pick my postings apart but you won't take 15 minutes and sit down with a pad of paper and look thru the bible and answer the questions I asked you....
Please don't pray for me, you might not understand just what it is that you are doing...thanks
crazyrustyforpresident
crazyrustyforpresident
I too, had to spend alot of
Exactly how did you think you were going to "PROVE" the text? Do you mean prove that it's all true? I don't think that's possible. Most of it is a matter of faith. There may be physical evidence of some of the events documented in the Bible, but you can't prove that God exists. If that's what you were trying to do, I'm sorry you wasted so much of your time. The Bible itself clearly states that these things are matters of faith.
So despite the fact that you grew up in a "bible beating family" and spent a lot of time "reading 13 different versions of the bible" and you were capable of deciding you don't believe it's true, I somehow am incapable of deciding whether I believe it's true or not? What makes you so special that you can change your mind and what makes you assume that I can't?
God didn't need the Bible to communicate with us. We need the Bible to learn about God. Science, at best, can teach us about God's creation, but it can't teach us about God. And, if you believe the Bible, then obviously God chosen the best way for us to learn about Him. Only if you don't believe the Bible do you think that there would have been better ways (claiming to be smarter than something you don't even believe exists...strange thing to do, I'd say...).
Just because you know it's going to be snowing tomorrow, does it mean that's your will? Knowing the future is just that...knowing the future. Knowing what's going to happen doesn't mean you are forcing it to happen that way. God makes some things happen, and allows other things to happen, knowing the results of both (short-term, long-term, "any-term", overall in general).
Despite so much reading of the Bible, you don't understand that everyone God has done work through is a sinner? You do understand that Adam and Eve sinned, and that everyone else is a descendant of them, and therefore imperfect sinners, do you not? I certainly can't say for sure, but I suppose it may be possible that if there were some perfect, sinless people around, God would have chosen to work through them instead, but since there weren't any, he worked through sinners.
I'm pretty sure the Bible tells you to love your enemies, not to "feel love" for your enemies. There's a huge difference. "Love your enemies" is talking about an action, not a feeling! Love is an action! Bettering someone's life because you want to is love, not having nice "feelings" about them. You can have bad feelings towards someone and still love them. You can disagree with their thoughts, feelings, and actions, and not enjoy being around them, have bad feelings towards them, outright angry at them, but you can still want them to have a better life, to be happier, to suffer less, to learn more, etc, and choosing to do things that make them happier, etc, is what loving them is. Sadly, most people these days have absolutely no idea what love is...I'm thankful I've learned what it is, despite being fairly young.
God does not like any of us to die or feel pain or suffer in any way. Any tests a person endures changes that person...they are different than they were before, and what they would have been without experiencing the test. The person gains from the test. God allows bad things to happen to people, and sometimes he may prevent bad things from happening to people, at His discretion, with his infinite wisdom, all while you retain your right to choose how to handle whatever happens to you, good or bad.
Nice double-edged sword you got there. Your statement implies that if there is a God, and that God wants to give you the greatest gift you could ever receive, you don't want to know anything about it, since you don't want anyone sharing with you anything about Him or His gift for you. That seems a bit foolish to me.
If you're talking about Luke 4:1-13, go back and re-read my response. I didn't ignore it. If you don't consider my response adequate, then please say that, but don't accuse me of trying to avoid your questions when I answered them.
I'm not sure you understand what you are saying when you make that statement. I'm quite sure that I understand what I'm doing when I pray. And who I pray for is between me and God, and none of your business if neither of Him nor I choose to share it with you. Worst case scenario is that there's no God and I waste a little of my time...that has no effect on you or anyone else...best case scenario is that the God of the Bible exists, and God helps you if someone requests that He does.
I seriously question whether you really thought through your decision to turn away from God. Your ignorance of the Bible certainly appears to be far greater than my own, yet you outright deny it. I understand how appealing it may be to believe that you once you die, you don't have to worry about facing any consequences of your actions during your life. Yet, I don't for a instant wish that God didn't exist, for God's gifts are greater than anything anyone could ever gain during this life, only to later end up losing their life.
I must point out that even God allowing you to be in your current situation, with your current mindset and beliefs, and your actions of posting your opposition to Him here works in God's favor. Your opposition to God has been responded to by followers of God who are sharing a little bit of His message here with you, and an unknown list of other people that read this from now on. Everything works out for God and His followers in the end...only makes sense since this is all His creation and His rules.
Thanks for your conversation!
How about changing it for
How about changing it for those who don't need a sheperd :)
Surely you've the ability to
Surely you've the ability to ignore what does not interest you?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
No, no, no. The government is the higher power.
Listen to your local non-denominational pastors please. The mega churches are there for you to use and learn in. Please go to your nearest mega-church and check-in soon. At least let them know exactly where you can be found, in case of an emergency.
the word of god
....immaculate transcription? who witnessed it? who scribed it in origin and who edited it? where are the references and footnotes and bibliographies?
it is a beautiful historical piece of literature that has great prophetic messages.......but, man wrote it....physically sat down and wrote it.
I don't see your point.
There are some beautiful pieces of literature in the Bible. There's also a lot of racist nonsense, and laughable superstitions (snakes, rocks, trees, etc). The history is very questionable. There is no archeological evidence for any of the stories.
It's anonymous. It was collected together by revolutionaries of the 14th and 15th who were trying to liberate themselves from the control of the Church, and who modeled their efforts on the example of the Muslim Qu'ran, but they fell ( and the present day Evangelicals have fallen) prey to the politics of what came to be Zionism.
Why do people accept the Bible as authoritative? as anything other than a disparate collection of books?
Why do you search the Bible to justify your desire for Liberty?
Liberty is it's own justification.
Thanks for your reply TxRedneck
but...
I notice you don't use any material from the Bible, except very general, kinda dumbed down Sunday School caricatures of events. That's typical. Everyone knows whats in the Bible, until they read it. It's waived around like some sort of Talisman. I remember a picture of Bill Clinton, in a photo op, dutifully waiving his leather-bound Talisman in the air, coming out of Church - all the while Monica was doing him in the office.
Don't get me wrong. I love the Bible. I love reading it. But I know what it says, how it was written.
You're argument for Liberty stands on it's own without refering to the Bible.
However you have a mistaken understanding of the Qu'ran. Thomas Jeffererson actually used the Qu'ran. The hero of the movie 'V for Vendetta' read the Qu'ran... because... Well I'll let you do your own research.
"Why do you search the Bible
"Why do you search the Bible to justify your desire for Liberty?"
The Bible explains HOW we lose our Liberty, and HOW we keep it.
The Qu'ran was written about 600 years after the New testament. And the "God" of Abram is the God of all the major Orders, Muslim, Jewish, Christianity, and Hindu. They all trace their origin back to Abram, and they all are about Freedom by living under an Unseen Ruler, or Unseen God. And all of them have suffered deceiption and the Double Speak that orginated in Babble.
Here's a book, written by a man whom studied languages of the Bible. It does not include any talk of all the superstitions of the Bible, the majority of which are planted there to decieve, and taken directly from the Mystery Religions. Once one strips out all the superstition, corrects the mistranslations, the Bible is ENTIRELY believeable.
Read the first 2 chapters here, I'm confident you'll like it as much as any book that Ron Paul has written.
http://www.hisholychurch.net/order/materialskingdom.html
(scroll down to read online)
Here's a part from Chapter 8:
What is Redemption?
"Redemption is deliverance from the power of an alien dominion and the enjoyment of the resulting freedom. It involves the idea of restoration to one who possesses a more fundamental right or interest. The best example of redemption in the Old Testament was the deliverance of
the children of Israel from bondage, from the dominion of the alien power in Egypt.” Zondervan’s Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible.
The Temples of Israel in Jesus's time had begun a system of Corban. Corban is simply a system of Taxation and Social Security in every way like our own. Jesus came to "redeem" the people from this system, which simply means he came to offer them a system werein people would take care of the needy through free will charity instead of forced contribution. What is meant when it is said that Jesus died for our sins? Or that we are born of sin? In those days, as is now, we were born into our citizenship, or to say it another way, we were born into our Jurisdiction. This system of Social Security was a sin agianst the 10 Commandments. As we were born into the system form birth, due to our citizenship, hence, we are born into sin. He was King of Judea, as proclaimed by Pilate. He was giving us our freedom by eliminating this system, as the King had the right to do. He could have saved his own life by simpy renouncing his Kingship, but he chose not to for the Benefit of his people. He therefore gave his life to keep his Kingdom, thereby saving us of sin, or to say it another way, saving us from the Citizenship of the Social Security of the Temple, which was a sin.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
We Hold These Truths to be Self Evident!
There you go!
You don't need the Bible.
BTW, TxRedneck , Corban is an Arabic word for sacrifice. Sin is an Arabic word for sensual passion that enslaves. Yahud (Jewish) comes from the Arabic word meaning to delude, to fool, with words or strong drink.
The oldest reliable manuscripts of Biblical text is in Arabic.
I wouldn't be surprised if America became Muslim after all this nonsense settles down. Most events of conquest of Islamic countries resulted in the conquerors adopting Islam, because it is fundamentally a religion of peace, knowledge and science, and submission to God. That's what Islam means, and that's what a muslim is.
Here's a hint.
Khazars > Templars> Stuarts> Masons> Zionism> Israel.
That sure is a pair of magic
That sure is a pair of magic socks...stretch it anyway you want to fit your feet. What happen to "we held these truths to be self-evident..."? What's all these appealing to "authority"?
Look around the
Look around the "Revolution". What Authority are these appealing to? Are they appealing to the "self evident" truths, or are they appealing to the Authority in Washington DC?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Yes, man wrote it, as only
Yes, man wrote it, as only man has been here to witness history, only man COULD write it. There has been no camcorder running for thousands of years to document history, only man and his writings. And the Bible is compilation of those years, with stories of Kingdoms run by men who practiced Socialism and the results of those systems of Tyranny over men, and stories of living under No Government and the Freedom the results of those systems that did not fail.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Once again displaying the Truth of Paul's first...
letter to the Corinthians
In Christ,
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
Check us out @
www.lionandlambministry.com
Best Ever Website Design:
www.USDesigns.org
All New, All Christian and Freedom Video Site:
www.lionandlambtv.com
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
http://www.lionandlambministry.com
TXRedneck~ This got buried
on the first page of this thread...so I dont think you got to see it..
The Bland, Meaningless and Unthreatening Religion of the Ruling Class
"I'm talking about the actual essence of the story of Jesus as that story has come down to us. In fact, the Jesus of that story challenged every aspect of the behavior and thought of the ruling class of his time. He condemned that ruling class in stark and notably unforgiving terms. He was threatening to the powerful of his time to a degree that the powerful found intolerable."
"You might recall that the threat Jesus represented to the powerful elites of his time was so extreme that they killed him because of it. But in a pattern that is repeated over and over again throughout history, the ruling class found a very clever way to disembowel the threat Jesus represented, once they had disemboweled the individual in question. The ruling class appropriated the religion he had preached, purged it of each and every element that criticized them, and repackaged it as a bland, easily digestible pablum. They then pretended this tasteless, empty, sentimentalized religion was what Jesus had offered all along. And many people fell for it. "
http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2008/03/bland-meaningle...
*****
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Romans 13 a fine example
Romans 13 a fine example of how the Bible came to be what it is. Anyone who tries to read the Bible is immediately struck by lack of continuity - seemingly independent thoughts strung together by awkward narrative.
Try reading the letter to the Romans as a whole. I’m sure you’ll agree that Romans 13 was an insert from a later date - probably from a time when a civil government tried to use the Bible to shore up its authority. Probably from the time of James 1st. St Paul is talking about justification of the soul through faith, then, abruptly says you should pay taxes! What the..F??
The use of chapter and verse by preachers tends to hide this phenomenon. (Most people don’t read the Bible, they just listen to talking heads. It's the original MSM). Chapter and verse didn’t exist in the older manuscripts. These were introduced much later around the 15th century.
You can debate
the contents of the Bible endlessly. I think that's why the Church originally asked Catholics not to read it without the help of someone versed in the Church teachings.
It's the Church that ultimately deems the Bible authoritative. Without the uniting authority of the Church Christianity split into thousands of silly sects, each one with their own ideas.
But now the Bible's being used for more sinister purposes - Zionism.
As for Liberty, why do you need any support from the Bible? Liberty is it's own justification, and it's own reward.
The Bible is inherently authoritative and anti-Libertarian. The King James was issued to shore up the authority of the King.
"The Bible is inherently
"The Bible is inherently authoritative and anti-Libertarian. "
Nothing could be further from the truth. The Bible is all about COMPLETE freedom from the Authority of Man, and Absolute Liberty with only 10 Laws to Follow. And every man is given the Choice to follow even these 10 Laws. You won't find that in any government of this present day. The First of those Laws is to serve no Government before the Government of the Unseen Ruler.
One thing that decieves so many people about the Bible is what is meant in the word "God" or "god", and what is meant by a "Father". It would serve to better understand what the Bible is about if we learn what these words meant to the People of those times.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Paul tells us, just as Jesus
Paul tells us, just as Jesus did, that if we live under the Jurisdiction of Ceasar, then we must follow the Law of Ceasar, that includes paying taxes. But if we live under the Jurisdiction of Judea, of which Jesus was the King as proclaimed by Pilate, then we owed no tax but only free will charity toward the needy. This was the system of Social support of Jesus, by free will. The system of Social support of Herod and Ceasar was in every way a system of Social Security and taxation equal in every way to what is present today.
Paul was an attorney and he knew the Law well.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
YOU are proving this verse....
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Stick to what you know. You will be better off
In Christ,
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
Check us out @
www.lionandlambministry.com
Best Ever Website Design:
www.USDesigns.org
All New, All Christian and Freedom Video Site:
www.lionandlambtv.com
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
http://www.lionandlambministry.com
In Fact
Biblical Studies is one of the things I know best - including the underlying Greek and Hebrew.
Your use of 'chapter and verse' indicates that you come from the 'talking head' school of Biblical Knowledge. It's not easy to beak out of that mindset, but it is possible. Good Luck.
You know Biblical Studies best do ya???
I'm going with...I DON'T THINK SO!
In Christ,
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
Check us out @
www.lionandlambministry.com
Best Ever Website Design:
www.USDesigns.org
All New, All Christian and Freedom Video Site:
www.lionandlambtv.com
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave
"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17
http://www.lionandlambministry.com
TXredneck~ A suggestion?
This title is better than the first but I would think "For Believers and Non~Believers: A thought provoking video.."
or something to that effect.? I think it is an important and thought provoking video for ALL..don't exclude "believers" and don't single out non bleievers. Religion threads on here usually take a divisive turn and I would love to see these posts of yours looked into for a healing between all...a common ground for positive discussion!
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
gcopenhaver
Thanks..You proved my point.
Everything you just typed was indoctrinated into you from others starting with your existence. I can't "assume" to know what any of the bible menas because I wasn't there so I don't know the context of what was spoken. I certainly can't "assume" that love your enemies means, neighbors, governments, belief systems, evil entities or any other such thing. Remember, this god of the bible created everything good or bad, including the satan people believe in. It nothing but a smokescreen set up by the writings of MAN to keep you confused.
Care to take a challenge? I will just give one example because I have already been able to see the truth and become free. Go take a look at Luke 4: 1-13. Tell me, who was there, who saw that and who wrote that down. Then before you come back here preaching your religionist fairytale stories, start at the first verse and go all the way thru and ask those 3 questions. It is very enlightening. The only god entity that exists, exists in YOUR mind and your ego needs an identity so it tells you what you believe is true. Step outside and above the religion box and you soon see that you don't need any higher entity to call to to control your life. The truth sets you free.
By saying you believe in the one true god, you condemn all the other people on the planet that don't believe like you. Was that jesus' message...if in fact he ever existed? It seems kinda kooky that this bible god is a warmongering, death and destruction and Armageddon killing, vengeful and quick to anger entity. Sounds more like a saturday morning cartoon character or something you would see on Star Trek.
crazyrustyforpresident
crazyrustyforpresident
Everything you just typed
Actually, most of what I've learned about Christianity was on my own through lots of reading and praying. I've had to unlearn much of what was previously taught to me by my parents, family members, churches, etc, when I started actually studying the Bible myself. I'm still unlearning some things and will always be learning new things about the Bible.
First, to try to "assume" what the Bible means is just as silly as trying to "assume" what anything else means. The goal is to understand communication, not "assume" you know what was intended. When dealing with communication from other cultures, languages, time periods, etc, it requires much more study to understand what was meant than it would if it were from the same culture as you, in a language you've spoken your entire life, that was written within the past few years. If you don't understand something in the Bible, it's because you haven't sought out it's meaning as thoroughly as you need to to understand it. As someone who believes that the Bible is the Word of God, it of course is understandable to anyone who wants to put the time into understanding it.
Yes, God created Satan and other angels and people and everything else. Yet, God, who is the creator of freedom, gave the angels and people free will. Satan was the first to choose to go against God. Other angels followed him. Satan misled Eve into choosing to do something God commanded her and Adam explicitly to not do. She then talked Adam into it. As they foolishly chose to become imperfect, all things that come from them will therefore have their imperfections, such as their labor, their health, their environment, their descendants (us), etc. Man was given dominion over the earth and all the living things on the earth, and since man has become imperfect, all things man is responsible for has become imperfect. We suffer a portion of the consequences of the sins of ourselves and of others, from the past and the present.
It's "nothing but a smokescreen set up by the writings of MAN to keep" me confused? Who did that? Why did they do that? What did they have to gain by doing that, especially since they're long dead now, and I've just within the last few decades been alive?...I really don't see some person/people who lived thousands of years ago gaining anything from me believing that the Bible is the Word of God.
So you're implying that somehow the Creator of all existence is somehow incapable of having those events written down by someone, despite that no one was there except Jesus and Satan? Your "challenge", as you call it, is certainly no proof that the events in recorded in those versus did not happen, or that the Bible is just one big made up story. Your "challenge" is merely a display of how ignorant and unprepared you are for any reasonable discussion of the Bible.
Sounds like you're assuming things.
God doesn't control my or anyone else's choices. God doesn't control my or anyone else's morality. God doesn't control my or anyone else's beliefs. God is the creator of freedom. God gave us freedom. God is Truth. The Truth can set you free if you accept it.
When I choose to believe the Bible, I'm choosing to believe that we are all sinners and that some, at God's discretion, as stated in the Bible, will not spend eternity with God. I am not condemning anyone by doing that. I, as a sinner, have no right to condemn another sinner for being a sinner.
God is the creator of Justice. The punishment for sin is death. Every moment you remain alive is by the Grace of God, for you as a sinner deserve not life, but death, yet you still have life for a while. And does not the Creator have the right to choose what to do with his creation? Does not the Creator get to choose the rules by which his creation can exist and when his creation can and should be destroyed? Does not the Creator have the right to offer forgiveness to none, some, or all of his creations? Does not the Creator have the right to make any covenant with any part of His creation? Does not the Creator have the right to interfere with His creation as He sees fit? Does not the Creator, the Creator of Life, have the right to give and take life as He sees fit?