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need advice guys! arguing with a coworker who wants socialism

this is her email she wrote,please give me some good retorts.thanks guys. .................................. Libertaria is a combination of values that just doesn't exist: the government equivalent of a really posh residence for very little money. You can find nations which have much lower taxes, etc.: just don't expect them to be first class.

And the reason these combinations don't exist is probably simple: the free market of government services essentially guarantees that there is no such thing as the free lunch libertarians want. It's not competitive.

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Go read

Go read Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

It isn't enough to regurgitate what people here tell you to say, that'll only get you sound bites and a nice election platform.

You really need to understand it yourself, and that book is the quickest way to doing so.

I'd also read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead if I were you.

Eric Hoffer

I would tell her she is 100% correct in her thinking...

We need government to take care of every facet of our lives. Look how well they have done with what they have control over now, imagine if they were totally in charge of the auto makers, banks, mortgage industry, oh wait... they already are, wonder why America is not doing so great?

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
~Mark Twain

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

I once argued with a Socialist to look at North Korea

for a full example of what socialism can do to a people. His response?

"Oh, our government just WANTS us to think things are bad over there. It's really a paradise!"

That's about when I realized that there's no arguing with some people. They'll always have a comeback that is so unbelievably, bat-scatalogically insane you can't remotely counter it using reason.



Comfort is not freedom


her retort= holy sh7t it gets worse

why dont you talk about communism...fascism.....nazism.....why are you focusing on socialism when all that it does is ATTEMPT, right attempt to eradicate class divisions which doesn really happen ....so................Im accepting that this will probably takes hundreds more years to be accepted by the society......if ever.........................................but doesnt change my beliefs or ideology??!!that it can happen!im a catholic....if im purely a socialist and socialism is commnunism...isnt that questionable cause communism rejects religion and its really more extreme than socialism!!!Dont tell me that you dont think so?!


For the love of all that is holy and sacred, step away from the ellipse and never look back.

Paragraph form, complete sentences, and English would assist greatly in understand what you just said.


Eric Hoffer

Like I said

Avoid yourself some pain and frustration.

You could try this, however:

"Libertarians believe that there's only so much stuff in the world. If that stuff isn't completely controlled by the people who own it, then it gets controlled in an arbitrary and often unfair manner that favors people who are politically connected. Politically connected people are those who are friends of politicians, or those who have enough money to make sure that their politician friends stay in power. Is that fair?

"Why can't the government own everything to solve this problem? Because that's just not human nature. One of the first words a baby learns almost instinctively is the word *mine*. There's a reason for that. We're not ants or honeybees. We're people, and we're made -- by God -- to own our own goods, and our own means of production.

"Why can we own our own means of production? Okay, let's argue it this way: you're Catholic? Okay. When God said in Genesis to "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground," I don't think he was talking to any particular government. God doesn't talk to groups, but to each and every individual. Just who do the people in power believe they are, intercepting, controlling, and reinterpreting this instruction?"

Try that on for her size. Lose the capital letter yelling match.



my retort

the government equivalent of a really posh residence for very little money..... thats what you think libertarians believe? libertarians believe in the free market. they believe hard work and sound investment should be rewarded, libertarians DO NOT WANT GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS OR WELFARE>IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO TAKE MONEY BY FORCE FROM ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE AND GIVE IT TO ANOTHER GROUP> do you believe in private property rights?

Does she YouTube?

I would send her Money as Debt http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Once she understands the money we use is debt, then you have the opportunity to educate her about Von Mises, Ron Paul, what a free market really is, and how PEOPLE CAN better than government telling people how they can't.

Tell her Nader agrees with Ron Paul. A number of socialists think Nader is a socialist. He's not. He's a consumer advocate who believes that's a job PEAPLE CAN do better than government or government subsidized corporations.

Tell her I'll be over tonight to get my share of her stuff!

She worked for it but I have a right to my share...which of course, I decide how large a share it will be.

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

Excellent Answer

People are all for the taking of OTHERS fortunes just NOT THEIRS.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

the scary thing is she is a precint leader for the obama campaig

free market of government services? libertarians=free lunch. it cant be more false. i told her to quit and get welfare. give her house away and let the government tell her how to live.

Demand Sexual Favors

From her according to her ability, to you according to your need.

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

Who says?

Who says she has ability?

Eric Hoffer


are a genius.

Almost as smart...

...as melgesman

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
West of 89
a novel of another america

I don't fully understand

I don't fully understand what she wrote, but I always tell socialists that us freedom lovers want the same thing that they (socialists) want.

We want all people to be happy and live prosperous and in peace, however history proves that a managed society/economy never accomplishes that end result.

In a true voluntary free society, people are free to succeed and make mistakes. However when mistakes are made by our "leaders" in the regulated managed society we have today, those mistakes hurt all of us.

I also think it's important to mention to her that our species isn't perfect and never will be. We will always live in a world with social and economic injustice, however those injustices are amplified by too much government-sponsored centralized control over our lives. If we had less central-economic planning, we would live in a much more self sufficient society, where most people would naturally have a higher quality of life.

It's also important to mention that our managed economy isn't and never was a "free market" economy. It's a complete misrepresentation.

If she wants the poor to be taken care of, the end of dangerous wars, and healthcare to be more affordable, then she should be begging for a constitutional government asap. Tell her to read some of our books. She'll learn a lot.

Here's a link that explains why Ron Paul's message is better for Israelis, Palestinians, Americans, and the entire world. www.AmericansForIsrael.com

It doesn't read like literacy

is something we can rely on in this particular case, for this particular lady.

It sounds like she's trying to regurgitate some barely remembered third-hand definition of libertarianism that was trolled out on Oprah or something of equal intellectual stature.



Socialism Cannot Work

" Socialism cannot work because you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

a retort

Hey You....fellow co-worker, shut your stupid @ss pie hole. You're dumb as a stump.

This comment won't help, but on the bright side nothing will help a person using "libertarian" and "free lunch" in the same sentence.

Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio

i agree

im not sure how to even argue against this jibberish. the scary thing is most people at work feel like she does. hey obama hurry up and ruin the economy so we can start this revolution already.

My advice

is to quit now and save yourself some frustration. What she wrote isn't remotely coherent. You can't argue with someone whose definitions are broken beyond repair.