Rhino: Jews, bigotry, zionism and how it relates to freedom, peace, and love.
I have noticed a resurgence of bigotry over the last couple of days.
It is quite ironic since I recently posted about how I thought that dp has improved dramatically over the last several weeks. Here is my thread …
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/82022
Back in June I posted a thread that I titled “The Jew thread”.
This is what it said …
Starting to see a lot of anti-Zionist literature posted here.
Thought it would be a good topic for discussion.
Personally, and it may be unjustly on my part, anytime I see this topic as being important to someone, I have a tendency to label that person a bigot in my own brain.
Am I wrong?
Updated:
Does a Jew not have the right to fight within any means necessary to protect his interests?
Why is Zionism being attacked and not congress for bowing to the will of the Zionists?
There is nothing wrong with Zionism. There is a lot wrong with our government endorsing Zionism.
So why go after the Zionists?
It reeks of bigotry.
We all have our roles.
Here is the link …
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/52768
Notice that the title is different ….
It was edited and I was banned for a time for this post.
I say to you now …
Beware of this bigotry. Be one if you like. Spew it here if you like. But this is not the message of freedom. And as Legalizeliberty likes to say … freedom equates to love and peace.
If you truly need to hate something or someone … hate congress and your Representatives in particular.
They are the only ones that are violating their oaths.
God Bless.
"There is nothing wrong with Zionism."
but Zionism is what perverts Congress by putting extraordinary amounts of cash at the disposal of certain politicians, who then subvert the appropriations and allocations of money, who steer the foreign policy to create needless wars that generate debts that benefit the bond-holders. Politicians who then try to scuttle good politicians who try to serve their country.
e.g Cynthia McKinney, Paul Finlay, Ron Paul. (I'm sure there's many others).
You won't get your message out because the Congress has been hijacked. You have to know who hijacked them in order to bring about a solution.
This is not bigotry. This is not Jew versus Christian versus Muslim.
This is knowing what's going on and fighting it...peacefully, with knowledge and common sense.
Understanding AIPAC lobby Influence is Crucial!
Thank You Bandrig - this is a quest for knowledge and a realisitc understanding of the powerful control of the AIPAC agenda on our foreign policy!
*********
"This is not bigotry. This is not Jew versus Christian versus Muslim.
This is knowing what's going on and fighting it...peacefully, with knowledge and common sense"
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Dear Rhino~Many have thoughtfully responded
to help clear up your "apparent confusion" of terms and the many of us that have been wrongfully labeled/ subjected to YOUR confusion. I think you have grossly miscalculated on our understanding of these terms and the general DP community. Most here do not come from a minset of racism or bigotry and I find it extremely offensive that you would like to "label" this group. We do our research and are able to distinguish between propaganda, historical facts and able to reach conclusions through critical thinking.
I find it odd that you have not responded. I am reminded of a well known prank .....you set a pile of crap on someones door...light it on fire ...RUN AWAY>>>and watch from a distance the ensuing response!
****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Respond to what?
My OP says how I feel ...
And by the way ...
I do not label groups in my mind as bigots ...
I watch the posts ...
and there are quite of few individuals here that are fanning the flames of bigotry.
If I named names, I would be banned ...
Use your own judgement ...
read these posts with a critical eye ...
and all I ask is that you look at it from a liberty perspective ...
People are free to choose their movements ...
But our elected officials should not be free to choose what part of the constitution they are going to ignore.
The message is getting lost in this dislike for ...
zionism ...
new world orderism ...
foreign propaganda and interventionalism ...
etc. etc. etc.
STAY FOCUSED PEOPLE ...
IF WE WANT FREEDOM WE NEED TO ELECT FREEDOM ...
We can't do that by showing our disgust or hate for groups that disagree with us or groups that have been successful at corrupting our elected officials.
Forget about those groups ...
Focus on the only thing that we can change ...
congress.
Point out what they have done ...
what they have voted for ...
What laws they have broken ...
That is all that matters.
Of course that is just my humble opinion.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Rhino, that is not humble!
One thing that jumped out to me about you is that even though you had some problems with arrogance and pride, when you were showing humility, I never, ever sensed it to be false...until this post you just did.
You post this thread apparently not for "discussion" at all when you say, "Respond to what? My OP says how I feel ..."
Of all the utter arrogance.
You just posted this to tell people off? Is that it, Rhino?
You just wanted to tell people what bigots they are, when you don't even understand the meaning of the word...much less Zionism?
I do not usually even involve myself in these Israel/Zionist/Jew posts. When I posted yesterday, I tried to be very careful about what I said to you because of your sensitivity regarding the subject.
Rhino, I put a lot of thought into that post...but you reduced my whole post to the part I asked about you blowing off steam. It was a fair question I asked of you, but it certainly was not the meat of the post.
The person who replied to you under my comment was right that you dodged.
And then you made some smart remark to me about bigotry not being important to me.
Shame on you. Shame on you for that remark and shame on you for your arrogance here that you think you have nothing to learn from anyone. No, Rhino has it all figured out.
I'm sorry if this is harsh, but maybe it is time for Rhino to take inventory.
Jiminy...you have much more patience than I do!
Great response and hopefully food for thought for Rhino. I sometimes think he does not see the great effort of those that try to foster a dialogue of honest critical thought in response to some of his posts.
Is all the time and effort for honest dialgue below a waste? Perhaps he does not read them all ...but hopefully the discussion has enlightened thought from those that participated.
I don't know you really.. but I appreciate your patience, responses and sense of reason.
(Also, I thank you for recently clarifying some of my murkey posts/responses..when not understood! )
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Hey, thanks Liberty Belle. I really appreciate that.
Even if Rhino doesn't get anything out of this, maybe others will at least...especially regarding AIPAC, and the difference between Judaism and Zionism.
Sad thing is Legalizeliberty put a lot of time and effort in this thread and was very diplomatic.
Further below he also said to Rhino, "I hope this whole thread will be a healthy exchange of opinions based on mutual respect..."
I hope Rhino remembers this and at least tries to get something out of the comments here, even if only for legalizeliberty's sake.
I am not giving up hope regarding Rhino. Seeds that are sown, some of them will take root. I'll use the example of my 19 yr old daughter that even though it seemed like nothing was sinking in, things did. She'd argue and put up a fuss, but things got thru.
So, I am believing it will be so for Rhino, too.
Thanks for your contributions here, Liberty Belle, and thank you for the kind words.
You're starting to get it.
You're catchin' on, I'm tellin' ya!!!
★★★★★★
The 2nd amendment.
The ORIGINAL Homeland Security
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Oh, Jefferson.
I think I just lost some of that patience you credited me with.
He's stubborn is all. Hardheaded. Maybe needs to come down to earth once in a while and not be so full of himself sometimes.
Yeah, I blew it with the patience thing, though... ~hanging head in shame
Dear Rhino,
Why is your username in the title of everything that you post?
Please Donate Today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
why is there even a label
i got about half way through your post, and i wonder....why is there even a special name for that group?
Because they need to defend themselves? can't be. lot's of people need to defend themselves. there are skirmishes and combat going on all over the globe. right now.
one of the more obvious reasons, at least obvious to me...is that in order to consolidate a movement (much like ours), you give it a label, and then the members of the group collectively attempt to influence others outside the group.
a zionist isn't neccessarily a jew, and a jew isn't necessarily a zionist....but a zionist is almost always in favor of U.S. intervention on behalf of the zionist movement, the best interest of all U.S. citizens be damned.
anyone who doesn't respect the effectiveness of the zionist movement on U.S. policy is clearly not dealing with reality.
zionism to me, is just another movement/group in a long list of movements that are twisting our government and country to take action that I find very distasteful.
You may be reffering to the
You may be reffering to the post I made a few days ago..about the Israeli running the show..Please don't get confused..I certainly do not hate jews..I don't hate anybody for any reason...I do however dislike our connection to Israel and I do dislike the fact that we have a dual citizen in a high position of our government..By I do not dislike jews...
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Israel
in my mind has lost its priviledge to exist. After the last two massacres of Lebanon and Palestine I have just seen enough. I am not a bigot. I am a pacifist taxpayer supporting the genocide of Arabs and I have seen enough.
It seems to me that the Zionists are the bigots!
well put. i agree.
well put. i agree.
"Zionist" is not a race, being anti-Zionist is not racist
You play word games to make people who fight Zionism sound like racists. If you think there is nothing wrong with Zionism, I recommend you examine its roots and its goals more carefully.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
All I know is that the zionist movement is made up of ....
individuals ...
that have every right to further their cause ...
Right or wrong is not for me to decide ...
What I do know is that those that took an oath to uphold the constitution and then turn around and support the zionist movement with policy and our tax dollars ...
should be tried and hanged.
They are they only ones committing a crime here.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
I agree
But I think that the ones who bribe and those politicians accepting bribes should both be executed as it is done today in China... one swift bullet to the brain.
That's the only way to clean out the corruption that is happening in Washington.
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
Treason is punishable by death ...
but I don't think bribery is.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Yes
"They execute politicians that accept bribes,"
Ok, did some checking and evidently the bribe taken has to be substantial to receive a death penalty. But they ARE incredibly tough on that issue just as we should be.
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
Does every right justify any method?
Are you familiar with the USS Liberty, for instance?
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Of course crimes by INDIVIDUALS should be prosecuted.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Who is saying otherwise?
But if individuals are acting on behalf of or under the cloak of a particular group that is not necessarily intent on our best interests, you don't close your eyes to that.
Did you even read my post yesterday? ...or did you just get mad and stop at the part where I asked you if you wanted serious discussion or to blow off steam?
Our best interest?
Not sure what that means ...
We as civilians do not take an oath ...
We can work to subvert the system ...
We can educate the terrorists ...
Short of committing a crime ...
We can work to topple our governemt ...
Our way of life ...
Not sure what you mean by "our best interest".
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
You mention "the oath" again.
You said it on the MLK thread, also.
Why is the oath an issue regarding a topic pertaining to bigotry?
And do you think people not operating in our best interest are only people who take the oath?
..and what do you not understand when I say "our best interest"?
Not sure if you are serious or not...after that crack you made yesterday, it's hard to tell. :(
Completely serious ...
Are you saying it should be illegal for a U.S. citizen to lobby congress for foreign aid...
I don't think that is very liberty minded.
A person should be permitted to act in any manner that does not violate property rights.
Now the sick crimminals in congress that don't say no ...
that is a completely different issue ... they should be tried for treason.
The "oath" means everything ...
Did you not read my OP?
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
What are you talking about? I didn't say illegal.
And I didn't know you were talking just about lobbying.
Your thread was about bigotry and you asked, "Does a Jew not have the right to fight within any means necessary to protect his interests?"
Everytime the subject of Israel or Zionism or Jews comes up, you get worked up and go into your bigotry rant. Whether it's about atrocities in Gaza or a priest you called anti-semitic because he doubts something about the holocaust. You holler bigot at every turn, Rhino.
Your hollering foul about "bigotry" is not limited to lobbying. You need to get a clue about what bigotry really is... and even Zionism for that matter.
You put forth this post. Were you thinking that only others needed to listen to what Rhino had to say and not the other way around?
Maybe you could learn something from what some of the people here have posted. You were not in the right frame of mind for that yesterday. That was obvious from your replies, here and on the other Israel thread.
It was good that you stepped away. But now that you are back, are you willing to learn anything?
Rhino, enemies operate elsewhere besides within the oath...and they maneuver more easily outside of it. KNOW YOUR ENEMY.
Are they, Rhino?
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/79396
Are you a Christian?
According to our Bible, it was Jews who were responsible for falsely accusing Jesus, deceiving the masses about his true mission and causing him to be crucified by the Romans. It is also true that in the Bible Jesus called Jews murderers, children of the devil, vipers and other vile things. Jesus did not pull any punches in describing them. I guess in today’s world he would have been arrested for anti-Semitism. But he realized the truth and exposed them for what they really were. You Christian Zionists and far right Christians should go study your Bible. You may either learn something or come back denouncing Jesus as an anti-Semite.
Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Jews, but you have to distinguish the Jewish religion from the racist ideology that has infected a small group of very influential jews, and Christians, called Zionism - it's a mixture of materialism, nationalism and racism, a potent mix!
Was Jesus speaking in
Was Jesus speaking in collective terms, i.e. "jews are murderers"....or was he point out specific individuals or sub-groups?
I'd be interested in any verses that you could refer to....
I suggest you get yourself a good, readable Bible
Such as the Jerusalem bible and read the Gospels yourself. Read the book of Acts as well. Dropping verses is a great way to take issues out of context and read irrelevant conclusions into the text.