1 vote

the new light bulbs

please give me some good points, if any.
and the bad points. Please include references. I have a college teacher who actually believes they are going to be good for us by saving soooo much money and power.




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Simple

As rp1 and a couple others have pointed out, this is all a violation of both our property rights and the U.S. Constitution. You should end right here...

Less simple...

60Hz flicker really isn't good for your eyes. http://www.health24.com/medical/Condition_centres/777-792-81...

If the CFL was engineered to double the cycle time (which is very doable) 60HZ flicker would not be a health issue.

The color issue of CFL is just a matter of choice. CFL phosphor coatings come in various color temperatures to suit your liking. Color selection advantage goes to CFL for variety and choice. Just shop more carefully knowing such things. http://www.thegarsts.com/cfl_specifications.htm

As mentioned by many below, main issue centers around the use of mercury : CFLs contain a very small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing - an average of 5 milligrams (roughly equivalent to the tip of a ball-point pen). http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compac...

Toxicity of mercury, even at low levels. http://www.ingham.org/HD/LEPC/pamphlets/hazwaste/mercuryfact...

Recycling is not mature or widespread for CFLs. Cluestick, rural USA.

Disposal and clean up is a bit more than sweeping up the glass and going back to work.
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/

"free" government CFL disposal is NOT free. Back in 2001 the estimate was 0.35-0.75 per bulb for disposal.
http://www.zerowaste.org/cfl/IMAGES_A/mtg3summary.pdf

Requires the bulb to last ~11 years to pay for itself and the levels of EPA and state agencies aiding in the "safe" disposal.

Some states such as California are mandating CFL disposal for businesses. The "free" cost for consumers disposal of CFL's is hidden so many places I can't get straight stats. Subsidies and taxes, as always, hide true costs.

(Kinda like nuclear being "cost effective" and "clean" until 15 years later when you need to decommission and it winds up neither cost effective or clean.) Sorry, I like nukes, but it aint perfect. http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/students/decommissio...

Other issues such as significant disruption of alternative technologies, stagnating technological progress and of course more centralized and monopolistic power by government over your life.

LED is a very good alternative that should jump this CFL mandated crap until the next best lighting thing comes along. Government interference in the market will force CFL to dominate over LED, and that is a shame. LED lighting uses either continous or very rapid pulses, (hundred or thousands of Hertz) so eye strain is not an issue. Color and color mixing for personal preference. Lifetimes of over 20 years continuous use, light is still produced just at less intensity than new.

Most important. You should decide what light you want to purchase and use. Tiki torches for me.

from a market side

They have banned the incandescent bulbs in CA.
What starts in CA is spread as national before long.

As a retailer of the new CFL's, we are expected to be a drop off for recycling of the CFL bulbs that service to us is not free, actually is is quite expensive to recycle these bulbs. I won't go into figures but, if they are thrown away like the "old" bulbs that is when the mercury factor comes in. (compiling)

I heard the original incandescent bulb is still going, not sure about that.

Liberty Lights for everyone ;)

buy bulbs, stock up, Ace Hardware is selling cheap, Do;;ar days.
Hope I don't get banned.

Reverse the question

''Now let me get this straight...You are a teacher..you have a college education...you have seen what government is giving to us and telling us its all good..(name a few things which..if ask questions about..you can debait)..and you want me to trust the government of what type of light bulbs I use..why??''

Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina

Just to add

Don't you just love the water saver toilets. They are great . You just have to fush 2 or 3 times sometimes and they only clog about 5 times as much. Another great government Idea. Same thing with the shower. Just takes longer to rinse off the soap or shampoo. I think we all just need to stop seeing and deficating or only go outside and only be active in daylight hours and all buildings should have skylights and we don't work if the sun isn't out. Just think. Life would be so calm and relaxing. Play board game by candle light on cloudy days, spend time with the family, take a nap, garden, Yeah if we all just slowed down think of the energy saved.Onlt one income needed to get by, cook on a wood stove. Okay I was day dreaming. What would I do without my computer? hey I am sitting here without any other lights on in the house. Do have to put some laundry in though.

Compact fluorescents

CF bulbs are going to use significantly less energy than a traditional bulb, there's your major advantage. They also claim to last longer.

They are more expensive to buy, but I read that in around 2 years of average use the cost difference is negated by the electricity savings. If they also truly do last longer (I've heard 8-10X as long, not sure if I believe that) then the savings will be greater.

The downside...I know the light isn't quite as white as standard bulbs (think of a Walmart) which can be quite annoying to some. They also do tend to cause a little electrical interference...so if you use cordless phones and such it might give you more static.

Also...if you break a CF bulb, you get exposed to a trivial amount of mercury (via vapor). Nothing to call the bomb squad over, but try to air the room out before you go letting junior play with the shards of glass.

I've replaced a bunch of bulbs with CF in my house, and I can't tell the difference in appearance or brightness...but the one really annoying thing is that they are much larger than a standard bulb, and won't fit in some of my light fixtures.

I'd say buy them, but don't throw out good bulbs just to replace them. Replace them as they burn out.

I saw a

program where a nuerologist figured out they were giving him severe headaches and also had a flood of patients with headaches and even seizures. So he asked his patients to stop using the bulbs and they recovered. I also saw on the news you practically need a hazmat team if you break one. I have neurological problems myself though and as far as I can tell they don't bother me but I don't have them everywhere in my house and don't use lights alot. I prefer and open window or darker rooms unless I'm reading and I do most of that on the computer because reading does tend to give me a headache if I read too long from a book or magazine.

chonk123,

quote:
" I have neurological problems myself though and as far as I can tell they don't bother me but I don't have them everywhere in my house and don't use lights alot. I prefer and open window or darker rooms unless I'm reading and I do most of that on the computer because reading does tend to give me a headache if I read too long from a book or magazine. "

OK, so you have neurological problems, but ...

What the hell are you talking about ?

The new bulbs only save

The new bulbs only save energy in the summer. In the winter, that "wasted" heat from the old bulbs goes into the rooms where you presumably need it most. They act like small space heaters.

The light from the new bulbs has a very spiky spectrum, which makes various different colors appear the same. They have a low color rendering index (CRI). As an oil painter, I am not amused.

If you break one, call the hazmat crew. Unless you like huffing mercury vapor.

There are uses for the new bulbs, but I'm going to stock up on incandescent bulbs while I can still get them.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

CFL vs Tungsten

The resources used and the pollution produced to make a CFL is a lot higher. Consider the materials used (mercury/copper/plastics/cobalt/impregnated silicates/industrial solvents/etc), couple that with the additional power requirements to produce the components which make up a CFL (I should also mention the slave labor used by African mines to extract a lot of these resources). Compare this to the cost of sand, iron ore and tungsten...
The additional cost over the price of a standard bulb are to cover the cost of continued rape and destruction our environment, all in the name of 'the environment'.

The People's President
Ron Paul R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012

they ARE great for lasting a

they ARE great for lasting a long time and using less energy... only there is a REALLY BIG problem if one breaks.

you need to do serious environmental testing afterwards to make sure the area is cleaned up properly.

google it. there at least a couple creepy articles about it.

i don't use them.

That's the Problem, They DON"T Last a Long Time !

I have been using CFL's for over three years, and the average life is less than 6 months ! . Considering there cost and health hazards, LED light bulbs are the best bet. Unfortunately, they are still expensive but considering there life 50,000 hrs. they may be worth it.........

GOD BLESS US ALL

6 Months?

You're only getting 6 months from a CF bulb? What brand are you buying?

I've installed a dozen or so in the past 3 years, and I have yet to have one burn out.

I would suggest getting a volt meter and testing your power supply. I had something break on my transformer a few years back and it pushed my voltage to 145, and I was losing several lightbulbs per day. Just switch the voltmeter and stick it in a plug socket. If it's more than 130, call your energy supplier.

Some things to consider.

The CFL bulbs require more enery to produce - About 5.7 times more energy. To save energy, the bulbs have to operate for a while longer than incandescents to make up for this difference.

There is an energy cost to disposal of the Mercury containing lights, as well as an environmental cost. This may be offset by a reduction in Mercury from Power plants, but localized pollutants are always easier to control.

The Lighting in your home is a small part of the total Electricity usage - About 3% - So say you save 1/4 of 3% of the electrical energy production - ) 0.75% - This is quickly offset by a cold winter like this one.

increasing energy usage in India or China offsets this small gain.

Basically, it may save you a few bucks, if the lights last reasonably long. But as far as CO2 or energy production - meaningless.

By the way, Hybrid cars also require more energy to produce, and then resycle, and in a cradle to grave study, The actual energy consumption is greater for Hybrid, than a traditional simple compact car.

they are crap

If you want alternatives to incandescent, look to LEDs. They are pricey, but they are totally safe, will last years and use virtually zero electricity.

The new mini fluorescent bulbs are a health hazard and they even go out very quick.

_________________________________

My liberty-minded home base of thought:

www.ponderthis.net

_________________________________

Freedom - Peace - Prosperity

I think the light intensity, color, etc is poor

I replaced my incadecant bulbs with so called equivalent CFL's and the lighting is horrible. I then upgraded to the next size up CFL and it is better but still not as good.

Secondly, they don't last very long (at least not as advertised) when in a location that gets turned on and off frequently.

I got rid of them in the house after hearing about the mercury. I only have them in my outdoor lights that stay on all night and not much chance to be broken.

I am waiting for LED's

SteveMT's picture

I did some research ...these are terrible...See Below

Even a single CFL could provide toxic levels of exposure for mercury. One contains five milligrams of mercury, which would be enough to contaminate 6,000 gallons of drinking water. Low-mercury models have about one-sixth of the amount, but that’s still enough to contaminate 1,000 gallons. It makes the CFL one of the most toxic components of a household, one that causes kidney and brain damage when people get exposed to enough of it.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/19/green-shock-cfls-more-...

Mercury is concentrated in the sludges from sewage treatment by a factor of several hundred to several thousand over the levels initially present in the raw sewage. A plant in northwestern Ontario is estimated to have discharged 9 tons of mercury into local waters, with effects traceable 200 miles downstream.
http://www.speclab.com/elements/mercury.htm

The EPA says this is Fine Though, like 911...."The air is safe to breath."
Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: Do Energy-savings Outweigh Mercury Hazard?
EPA’s electronics recycling specialist Dan Gallo, who responded to the question, says the benefits of lower energy consumption outweigh the disadvantages but “EPA promotes and encourages the safe disposal of old CFLs to prevent the release of mercury into the environment,”

“Although CFLs do contain mercury, it is present in trace amounts -- five milligrams -- an amount that would cover the tip of a ballpoint pen,” said Gallo. “It would take 100 CFLs to equal the amount of mercury contained in older thermometers, which is about 500 milligrams.”
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/a883dc3da7094f97852572a00065d7d8/00c07ccb32cf4fab8525754d0073d8d1!OpenDocument

For the record ...

The commercial 4' tube contains substantially more mercury.

In a 20,000 square foot retail space ...

A store will go through approx. 50 - 150 tubes a month depending on the age of the fixture ...

Some states require proper disposal ...

but most states do not and even in the ones that do ...

proper disposal is expensive ...

They usually get crushed in the compactor and sent to the land fill.

Add that one up.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

SteveMT's picture

The long tube fluescents have been available forever.....

How much mercury do they contain? And no means of disposal...You're right, they must contain a lot more. I think the Illuminati want us dead.

This topic is typical of what's happening on the Daily Paul

lately !

Someone posts an off-the-wall subject,

and a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about,

jump on board,

with more off-the-wall comments.

* I admit - I may be wrong ! *

vlbc, Your sarcasm shows your D.P. age

Those of us who have been here for a while (a year or more) treat each other with respect, most of the time. We also know that when it comes to the "old timers", there is no such thing as an "off the wall subject", just those who don't have the answers to give concerning a subject, and are reaching out to 'family' for help and advice. While I found your comment below to be very demeaning to me personally, I chose not to reply. I like getting along , as much as possible, with everyone. With this post, you have insulted several of my family, and I won't let that slide. I am very thankful that they took time from their day to lend me assistance.

I started this "off the wall" post to get the OPINIONS of those willing to help me form an educated opinion on the subject of the new light bulbs to present to my professor. A quick read of the postings here will show who has 'matured' to 'family' status, and who needs to go back to bed and try getting up in a little while, on the OTHER side. Please enjoy the rest of your day. When you wake up, please consider deleting your two negative posts (consider doing so, baby steps to maturity).

Your servant for freedom, Clay Carey

livefreeordie,

Clay, I apologize !

I got caught up in the comments on your thread, and, in haste, I posted what I did, without going back to your original topic post and looking again at what your post said.
You are asking for opinions about the new light bulbs, and that fact fell out of my brain while I was writing my post. I cannot edit my post, because you have replied to it. If I could, I would delete the "off-the-wall" reference to your post. It is totally inappropriate to your original post, and for that, again, I offer you my apology. But, in my opinion, it does apply to some of the inaccurate information expressed in the thread.

As an aside, it has been mentioned many times by some "old timers" here on the Daily Paul that a post's validity is questionable because the person posting has not been here as long as someone else. That I find to be a fairly narrow-minded judgment in itself. How could someone ever "catch up" in time to someone who has been here longer, and become recognized as "legitimate " ?

I answered your request below ...

It is in a reply to the person below you.

And I do know what I am talking about ...

But I do see what you are saying ... but ...

these conversations are not the ones that turn people away ...

It is the hate filled posts.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

They don't work on dimmer switches...

... in recessed cans or covered fixtures (i.e., bathroom ceiling fixtures).

Mercury is a huge issue, IMO.

LEDs are the way to go for sure if they don't suffer from any of these advantages.

=======
"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."

- Robert E. Lee, 1866

=======
RON PAUL 2012

livefreeordie,

Near the beginning of this topic, you stated, referring to CFLs,
quote:
" I had heard somewhere, maybe here, that a woman had broken one in her house and it cost her 2,000.00 to have a hazmat crew clean it up. "

This is beyond laughable !

If I could get $2000.00 for a 10 minute cleanup of a broken CFL, I would do 10 per day, and retire in 3 months - with enough money to last a lifetime !

I hate those new

bulbs. It's like walking into a shadow, nothing is clear. It's really weird. Hate them with a passion. How about using the regular bulb and turn the damn light out when we leave the room.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

When you throw them away, you contaminate the ground

with mercury. They make a very annoying sound too. I'm switching to leds as soon as my cfls burn out (been over 5 years so far)

LED lights are better in every way

except for initial cost, at this time.
And perhaps not as good for high-brightness situations like parking lot floodlights.

But, for normal lighting, which could be served by the equivalent of 60-watt incandescent bulbs, there are equivalent brightness LED bulbs which will serve that purpose.

They use much less electricity than the curly fluorescents, and way less than incandescents.

The comments about the "lack of warmth" of the light spectrum LED bulbs emit are valid, but some LEDs are addressing that issue.

So, if lowest energy consumption and longest bulb life and low-impact on the environment are issues, then the curly fluorescents are NOT the answer.
LED bulbs are the answer.

And yes, you should be able to make your own choice, and not have the gov't shove light bulbs down your throat.

Absolutely correct except not in every way ...

Cost is still a problem and true white LEDs are even more expensive and exponentially less efficient than the colored ones.

They will get it eventually.

When that happens ...

half the wiring in new housing will be low voltage DC ....

another huge savings.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

rhino,

quote:
" half the wiring in new housing will be low voltage DC .... "

Could you enlighten us, please ?

Low voltage DC is NOT more efficient

The reason we use AC instead of DC for wiring is because losses are more directly related to inductance in AC circuits than they are to resistance. It is easy to match the inductance of an appliance to the frequency, but it is impossible to lower the resistance below a certain point.

If you wired your house with DC, you would burn it to the ground trying to run things like AC, ovens, and other high-load devices. The only circumstance under which DC would be a logical choice for wiring a house is if you generated all your electricity on site. The resistive losses would be more than offset by the savings that you would gain from not having to convert from DC to AC.

Try this sometime: Get about 500 feet of wire and put a DC source at one end. Measure the voltage at the source, and then measure it at the end. You will see a noticable drop in voltage, because DC must push current across the entire length of the wire, whereas AC only needs to push it several centimeters before the current flow reverses. By Ohm's law (V = IR), all that resistance in the line will translate into a voltage drop as current gets burned of as heat by the resistance of the line.

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