Atheists don't hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns. Why?
Submitted by carpavel on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 18:54Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I'm feeling playful. Had to push some buttons.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=8...
Evangelist: Atheists know they're wrong
They already intuitively know God exists, writes Ray Comfort
Posted: February 12, 2009
12:00 am Eastern
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
In a new book sure to push the buttons of atheists, one of the most prominent evangelists in the world today charges God deniers actually know they are wrong.
Ray Comfort, in a book scheduled for release today, the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin, contends atheists hate God because he does exist.
"Atheists don't hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns because they don't exist," writes Comfort. "It is impossible to hate something that doesn't exist. And that makes the point."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=8...
I will say one thing
Even posting something about atheism or religion creates such division as evidenced here that it is a good thing that the Constitution advocates separation of church and state.
I know what Ron Paul believes and I voted for him because I know he'd fight for my right to believe anything even if it is different than his beliefs.
I choose Ron Paul because his god is irrelevant compared to our Constitution in most ways.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
-Professor Bernardo de la Paz, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Robert A. Heinlein
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
I don't disagree with you...
about Ron Paul and how he handles his politics and beliefs, but where in the Constitution does it specifically divide church and state? I believe that is a real myth in our times, just look at the 503c churches - church and state tied together...
If you can show me I'll rethink this topic, but I've not found anything about this other that the Constitution's strict defense of freedom of religion; which I see as a deliberate tie together of church and state - the state is to defend all believers and unbelievers alike and together.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Seriously?
Nobody cares what Ray Comfort says. Please refer to the banana incident for further evidence.
Here's the banana video debunked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo
you know
Fortune Favors the Bold
one of the amazing things about the ron paul presidential campaign was it brought together people from diverse backgrounds who might have thought prevously that they had nothing in common.
I was always concerned that without the unifying focus of the presidential campaign, the sectarian differences would re-emerge and a unified political group would be untenable.
Fortune Favors the Bold
Fortune Favors the Bold Do
Fortune Favors the Bold
Do we have a shared political vision? Do we believe in the same ideals? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves, not debating about things we know we don't agree on.
Fortune Favors the Bold
I cast a vodoo hex on this thread
.
Steamed
I am officially steamed. I bumped away until this thread disappeared, and it popped right back up.
Would atheists be allowed to post-bump-post-bump articles that say Christianity is 100% bunk? How about articles promoting other religions, like Islam maybe? So why do the moderators tolerate this stuff going on constantly? Is it the job of the Liberty movement to figure out whether evolution or creationism is fact or fiction? Does it have anything at all to do with our shared goals?
No.
Why don't the mods kick the bumper trolls off? There are two I can think of whose monikers are virtual advertisements that they are here just here to stir the pot. One of them bumps every divisive or whacko thread without fail. Do we need those types?
No.
I know I shouldn't let it upset me, but it does. I am again considering just not visiting this site.
Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń
"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln
This thread is exactly what ruckmanite had in mind
when he bumped it. Nothing good was to come from his off-topic, divisive post. There has been a national emergency declared and kids could be taken from their families and we have to put up with threads like this.
get over it
seriously. if you don't want to read it, don't read it.
You get over it.
We just had a patriot leave over this stupid thread. That bothers me and I'm saying something. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.
Oh, you mean Dale...
Don't worry, he just left the thread, not DP. It's his typical MO, cut & run, whine about not being respected while he calls names and disrespects others himself. He'll grow up one day.
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
You think?
You think?
Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń
"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln
Who left?
Some thin skins around here!
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
This thread is old. How old is it?
It' SO old that the guy who does the most criticizing others for doing exactly what he does, has had time to go whining off and quitting DP, and is now back with another user name calling everybody else trolls, wondering why he gets no respect.
It was a bible thumper who started this thread, and it was a bible thumper that revived it with the longest post in history below. When these things get posted, you can expect a response.
If you're not one that tries to force your christianity on others, then you're not a bible thumper so don't be offended by the term. If the shoe fits wear it, but don't be surprised to get responses. If the thread offends you, don't read it! Don't reply to it, and don't bump it!
"I can't understand how all this can have happened, it's enough to make one lose one's faith in God!" -- [Eva Braun during the last days with Hitler]
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
Thanks Dale
Now we are "dividers" also. You came in this thread, shot your mouth off calling those of us offended by this silly topic, "trolls" and bad for the liberty movement, etc. We responded by basically telling you to go f yourself and now you are taking your ball and tears and leaving. Good. Don't let the door hit you on the ass. Read the thread folks. Hypocrisy.
I leave here with a smile on my face....
My whole point is this...Show me, or at least explain to me, why the quickest way to liberty and freedom is through division by lumping people together as groups and judging everyone in that group according to our own personal understanding of that group, and then ridiculing them.
This isn't about being atheist or religious or anything else, it is about respect. I have been told exactly how I think at least ten times below, and yet not a word spoken or pointed at came out of my mouth. I've been called a hypocrite, yet nothing to back it up...I've been told how I feel about muslims and others getting or not getting into heaven...I've been told that I or the faithful have gotten on here and said...and I quote ""God is great, ya'all non-believers are going to hell"...the likes of which I have never seen on the DP.
Please understand that if I was to see someone who called themselves faithful bringing up those issues spoken above here on the DP, I would be just as quick to speak my mind. Attempting to force faith is like attempting to force a democracy at gunpoint...it doesn't work and it certainly isn't the right way. This isn't about religion or any other point..it's about respecting those around you who are working towards the big picture..which is freedom and liberty for all, not just those who think like we do.
I have attempted to draw these people into a coherent conversation, but alas all efforts have failed. No matter how many times I stated..."This isn't about faith vs. non-faith, that is a personal matter, this is about respecting your neighbor and fellow DP members"..It all comes back to how silly I am for being faithful, and far-out efforts to somehow disprove my faith if I only read this book or this book..then all my wildest fantasies will come true.
Some of my favorite people here and in "real life" are atheist, the difference is that they share my love of respecting each other.
I will not be coming back here to exchange wits (come to find out fedor and thomas don't have a very good exchange rate) any longer. If I wanted to have arguments where some total stranger thinks they can tell me exactly what I believe, how I feel about people of other faith, along with simply making up quotes that fit their argument...well I'd give my ex-wife a call. She ALWAYS knew what I "really" meant when I said the sky was blue.
So I leave this thread knowing that the dividers below, are doing absolutely nothing for this movement. Being a Ron Paul supporter alone doesn't cut it. If you are unable to learn from his teachings, such as judging individuals rather than groups, then you are just that...a Ron Paul supporter. I choose to be a supporter of liberty, freedom, and respect. And that is what I picture when I think of a Ron Paul supporter, not someone who is going to belittle me and call me names because I have a faith in my God. If they aren't smart enough to realize that their good deeds in this movement are destroyed ten-fold by their divisiveness...well...I have some rocks in my flower garden that will be better learners and conversationalist than they are.
So my final questions, and I won't be sticking around for the answer...because there isn't a good answer and personal jabs don't answer questions my friends..
HOW IS THE LIBERTY MOVEMENT EXPEDITED BY DIVISIVENESS AND PETTY RIDICULING OF THOSE WHO DON'T SHARE YOUR PHILOSOPHY ON LIFE?
AND...WHY IS YOUR PERSONAL NEED TO BE "RIGHT" ABOUT YOUR WAY OF LIFE, EVEN THOUGH NO ONE IS JUDGING IT, MORE IMPORTANT THAN KEEPING THIS MOVEMENT ALIVE AND FULL STEAM AHEAD?
One simple expectation...saying that the mere mention of God or someone's faith is somehow "Bible Thumping" or "shoving Christ down your throat", is completely ludicrous at best. It is still legal, for now, to express those thoughts, as long as they are respectful of others. My believing in God and not being ashamed of it, is not even close to either one of those quotations that I run into constantly when divisive people defend their actions.
I expect any supposed thoughts or quotes that include me to be shown in its entirety and a link...pretending that I'm at heavens gate questioning God as to why there are Muslims in Heaven doesn't quite cut it, nor do fictitious quotes like the one above.
Have a great day, and peace be with you!
Dale
When Ron Paul says that "ideas have consequences..."
it seems clear to me that one must criticize the philosophical underpinnings of government and society before one expects anything to change in the manner one's own principles dictate. What has impressed me about him is twofold: 1) his integrity and 2) his embodiment of the virtue that Thoreau once wrote of: striking at the root of evil.
He has chosen to defend liberty through the reliance on God because of his belief in God as the source of our natural rights and the ultimate cause for existence. So while atheists, like myself, agree with his first principles (human dignity, limited restrictions on human liberty and property, we must approach them from a different world view and argumentative sphere. We have to arrive at the same moral conclusion for political stability and justice while rejecting the hocus pocus. How criticism of religion -- and necessarily religious people -- effects the liberty movement is quite frankly misplaced. It is an effective block through social positioning and using the weight of one's own ideas to corral someone into not openly and defiantly challenging what oneself has become -- or perhaps always was -- comfortable with. It's like arguing over the truth with someone who can only talk about its consequences. It doesn't embody illumination; it embodies distraction. And anyone claiming that one wants to divide "the movement" by offering one's opinion on something not related to that movement is in truth saying something quite differently: don't make me feel uncomfortable.
I want to reiterate that where one's own principles come from is a personal question. But as this forum is dedicated to spreading ideas, it seems entirely appropriate that someone who doesn't share the opinions of the author, who claims that atheists hate mythical deities (singular or plural), should respond. I'm not here to critique the main doubting Thomas on this forum for one reason: I agree with him.
The fact that dogma -- which some believe and some do not -- rules in many areas of social (and therefore legal) life leads to incalculable problems for many victims. Anyone can look at the drug war and realize that it is an entire society which attempts to save face and justify bad policy for religious reasons. There are other examples. My mother, who is now a "convert" to the liberty movement, told me when we invaded Iraq that she "felt that the bad guys were like snakes: they all kind of hide under the same rock." This was her response to my complaints that she supported the invasion of Iraq, a country that one could not reasonably connect to 9/11 or to any pressing danger from abroad. It wasn't until she saw Ron Paul on the debates (after I had told her to watch a video of this long shot presidential candidate) that she began to question the religious basis for her indifferene of strangers' suffering. My father has justified the Iraq war because he believes the christian missionaries will "spread the gospel." It was, to take him on his word, "God's work."
For those who claim that religious disagreements are a stumbling block for liberty should reconsider the crowd they find themselves in: we're on the site because of what we share. The fact that I believe Ron Paul to be reasonable on almost everything but religion has not kept me from recognizing his politics' significance for my life. Nor has it kept me from spreading the message.
The self righteousness on this post is blinding though:
"My whole point is this...Show me, or at least explain to me, why the quickest way to liberty and freedom is through division by lumping people together as groups and judging everyone in that group according to our own personal understanding of that group, and then ridiculing them."
And the headline from the article that was posted?: Atheists don't hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns. Why?
I hate to speak for an entire group, but: it isn't God we hate. We just can't stand to have people's metaphysical training embodied in publicly mandated destruction. You want atheists to respect Christians' beliefs: convince other Christians to abandon the destructive power of their influence.
where have you been all this time??!
Good sensible post.
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
i have been watching...
from above. j/k
I am a theist
There seems to be a creation...thus there is some sort of creator(s)...thus, I believe in a higher power. I also believe that I am part of the creation.
Other than that, I don't know anything more about the creation nor the creator.
The vast majority of people who claim to know than that I am certain they are full of it. But I believe that some people, if they work at it long enough, *might* be able to tap into a greater understanding...probably through sober meditation. Meditation has certainly helped me peel away a lot of the bull that composes of our civilized culture. But I can't say that is knowledge beyond anyone's senses. Anyway, if some of these people have tapped into creation and/or creator, they clearly can't prove it.
In fact, I believe that the teachers of the great meditators have been purposely perverted into religions to switch people from being enlightened to being controlled.
Concerning the rejection of anything that cannot be proven (common atheist logic), that is shallow logic. Did magnetic fields exist before we could prove there were magnetic fields? Of course. What gets me is how some swallow any theory that science puts out. To me, there is simply too little data to support evolution, global warming, and the big bang as fact. I'm not saying those theories are incorrect...I'm just ticked that some people believe anything the science community says. They sound just as ridiculous as people who claim to know what God said/did hundreds of years ago.
Perhaps the biggest problem the human species has is our social needs. Our social needs drive us to give into peer pressure, to rebel, and so on. We have had the knowledge to create global infrastructures to end poverty, hunger, most diseases, war, and so on for quite some time. It appears that some small groups of people understand this and thus have pitted our social needs against us to propel them into the ruling class.
Sigh
The bible is merely zodialogical astrotheology from various ancient cultures, wrapped with Jewish interpretations of the time of world events. Jesus himself was based on Apollonius of Tyana. You'd figure people would realize with the way our media is that they who control media, control information. It was no different back then.
However, people want to believe that everything will "work out for the better" in the end, and they feel the urge to believe in something to take care of the world's problems for them. We are embodiments of the God that flows through all creation, therefore, we are the only ones that can deliver justice through our choices and actions.
sure it was..... A prudent
sure it was.....
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
Holy Freaking Crap!
This is a RIDICULOUS string of comments I have just read through.
Ridiculing someone's beliefs, especially when neither their beliefs or the contrary argument can NOT be proven in any quantitative, substantial manner, says a whole hell of a lot more about the "more active" participants in this thread than their words ever could.
Vehemently jumping down someone's throat for have an unprovable belief that contradicts YOUR unprovable belief shows only one thing:
As a holder of your belief you are insecure in it, and any threat to it causes doubt or anger or any other plethora of negative feelings. in fact, by ridiculing and arguing you are perhaps actually discrediting your own beliefs by betraying your own insecurity in them.
This is a place of community and a place of liberty - someone here can believe that frogs secretly have a spiritual control of the universe and we all become additions to their consciousness so they can better understand their charge. I don't care - and NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
There are TRULY QUANTIFIABLE THINGS that we must be concerned with that supersede any and all religious or spiritual or belief-system-based arguments, except that none of us wants to have a particular one imposed upon us: A task which many of you seem to be hell-bent on performing in place of those we must actually oppose.
Stop doing their work for them. Stop showing disdain and contempt for the VERY VALUES WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FIGHTING FOR. I will argue something quantifiable with the best of you, but to sit there and mock (supposed) fellow brothers and sisters in the liberty movement is disgustingly counterproductive, so much so that the entire cup of coffee I have downed since writing this post has not come close to removing the bile-taste from my mouth.
Grow up, get secure, and KEEP FOCUSED ON THE REAL GOALS. This is NOT the place for such things. Not now, not ever.
And finally, Carpavel, perhaps next time you should "help yourself". We aren't here to discuss un-quantifiable, speculative philosophical issues - we are here to discuss things that, even if philosophical in nature, ARE PROVABLE. Such that ONLY a truly free society produces constantly rising standards of living, economic and technological innovation, longer life-durations, better health, and less violence. Why don't we focus on that instead of this ridiculous drivel?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Progress is precisely that which the rules and regulations did not foresee. - Ludwig Von Mises.
What everyone needs to understand...
is that in the end we all wander through the same doorway. One day all of us will experience death - physical and mental. Now, that end is the door. Some believe that the door is a joke, it doesn't even open. Some people believe that there is something beyond that door, that it leads somewhere, that mankind have individual souls that move on through that door. Liberty would dictate that everyone is required to deal with that door in their own way. Please get off of each other's cases over individual choice - either way. I know my own outlook on this topic, but I believe that I am ill equiped to demand how you form yours. I can provide advice and opinion, but each of us are, in the end, responsible for our own decisions. All I can say is good luck because the threat of tyranny forming quickly over this earth will press many of us against that door, and some of us will be there sooner than we think if these "elite" have their way and even if we reise to fight them.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
exactly.. very good post! A
exactly.. very good post!
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences. Proverbs 22:3
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
I'm tired
of religious folks making bigoted remarks and then being protected by their "brothers". They come running out of the chapel, snakes in hand, to shout down the folks that are offended by the illogical, twisted, hypocritical nonsense spewed by their Christian "brother". It is annoying. If my behavior is what constitutes being a troll here on DailyPaul now, that sucks even more. Stop embarrassing yourself Dale.
LOL..another great statement by the beloved fedor
You will have to try harder than that. ANYONE who's basis for being here is to divide true liberty loving people into camps is a troll. If you can't have respect for those who believe differently than you, then you obviously are no help to the freedom movement. For us to survive in the free society that we want, there must be respect. You and your buddy bugman have absolutely zero respect...and maybe it is for only one group..but the point is the same.
The embarrassment doesn't sit with me. I know who I am, what I believe, and how my words affect others. What I am not is disrespectful and divisive because of my belief system. I can also have a conversation with people who don't see things the way I do without calling them names or spewing cheap jabs towards their thought system. I do however reserve the right to speak against those who are disrespectful and spew personal attacks at people for not sharing their philosophy on life. That includes you and bugman.
You two dimwits are trying to divide a community that wants freedom and liberty for all, while claiming to be a positive force for freedom......now that is embarrassing.
Grow some balls and learn to let people be themselves without the grade school tactics.
DaleinAdaOklahoma...
"What I am not is disrespectful and divisive because of my belief system."
The problem Dale is that your belief system is defunct, Joseph Atwill's book showing the parallel between the gospels and "The War Of The Jews" negates the actual existence of jesus. If you are a true seeker of truth you would be secure enough in your belief in god to read this book, but you probably won't and I think it would be safe to say that do not worship god but rather jesus (created by the Romans and Josephus) which is a false teaching of the church (ie: jesus is god) the utter blasphemy.
http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/summary.html
"Since the events occur in Josephus ("The War Of The Jews") in exactly the same order as their counterpart events in the Gospels, probability theory can then be used to assess the likelihood that this might be due simply to chance, or instead, that one source copied the other. The calculation shows that it is over 99.9999% certain that one account was written based upon the other. This calculation takes a conservative approach that assumes that, once used, each of the eleven items could not be used again. The probability is thus calculated as 11 factorial, or 11x10x9x8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1 .This would equal 1 chance in 39,916,800. Expressed as a percentage, this means that it is 99.999997% certain that one account influenced the other. In other words, the likelihood that these parallel sequences occurred by chance is less than 0.000003%--effectively zero. (The alternative approach would assign truly random possibilities for each of the events, in which case the odds are calculated as eleven to the eleventh power, or one chance in 285,311,670,611, for an even more remote probability of 0.0000000003%.)
CAESAR'S MESSIAH ; A SUMMARY OF FINDINGS
Our understanding of Jewish and Christian history has changed dramatically with the publication of Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill (Ulysses Press), which had previously been privately published under the title The Roman Origins of Christianity. According to Atwill, the Gospels are not accounts of the ministry of a historical Jewish Jesus compiled by his followers sixty years after his death. They are texts deliberately created to trick Messianic Jews into worshipping the Roman Emperor 'in disguise'. The essence of Atwill's discovery is that the majority of the key events in the life of Jesus are in fact satirical: each is an elegant literary play on a military battle in which the Jewish armies had been defeated by the Romans. This is an extraordinary claim-but supported by all the necessary evidence.
Why would the Romans go to the trouble of writing and disseminating such a text? The Jewish War, culminating in the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE, had devastated the Mediterranean economy, and the Romans were anxious to prevent another messianic outbreak, which could easily lead to another 500,000 deaths-as the Bar Kochba revolt would demonstrate a generation later. In order to make any reconstruction of the country lasting, the Romans needed to offer the Jews alternative stories that would distract them from the messianic messages inherent in the Torah, and persuade them to accept Roman values. http://www.caesarsmessiah.com
.
.
http://www.ronpaulsingles.com/
Paper Ballots Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust
Support WTP Federal Supreme Court Case To Ban All Electronic Voting Or Forget 2010 or 2012
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11...
http://www.dailypaul.com/152976/diebold-vs-paper-ballots
http://www.ncel.w4sp.com/
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
http://www.votefraud.org/
http://www.hulu.com/hacking-democracy
Wow you people really don't understand English do you...
"The problem Dale is that your belief system is defunct, Joseph Atwill's book showing the parallel between the gospels and "The War Of The Jews" negates the actual existence of jesus. If you are a true seeker of truth you would be secure enough in your belief in god to read this book, but you probably won't and I think it would be safe to say that do not worship god but rather jesus which is a false teaching of the church (ie: jesus is god) the utter blasphemy."
I have faith in my Bible, most definitely. You can rest your non-faith on Joseph Atwill, if you like, that is completely up to you. My faith in God doesn't "require" me to read Joseph Atwill or anyone else Thomas. I'm not going about my life trying to disprove my faith, I know what led me to my faith, and a book recommended by an atheist surely isn't going to change my life. So in your atheist mind I must not be a "true seeker of truth", but you have to realize that my life and my belief isn't driven or guided by you or any other man's judgment or thoughts. And the whole "it would be safe to say"...yep lumping everyone together and judging people accordingly. One of the two things that I have spoken out about. If you can't understand why that is wrong and detrimental to our movement, perhaps I should suggest a Ron Paul book....ever heard of him?
Not to mention Thomas, that we all have our own thought systems and belief systems..my problem isn't with people being different, it's about disrespect and the obvious goal of dividing people into camps, which only outcome will be a weaker movement.
I see that you find it is important to fight electronic balloting....do you think we can get this accomplished easier as a huge group of freedom loving individuals who respect one another, or as sheep who may not be divided by the red and blue of the republicrat world, but still allow ourselves to be divided into camps based on religious beliefs or any other point that has nothing to do with electronic balloting? Get my point?
My fight for liberty and freedom, as with 99.99% of DP friends, has nothing to do with your lack of faith or anything else. It only has to do with people who RESPECT each other enough to work towards one main goal. I'm sorry if I didn't make your day by getting into some sort of prove vs. disprove of my faith flame fest...My faith is my business...freedom is supposedly the business of everyone here.
Good luck next time.
Oh and by the way... "The problem Dale is that your belief system is defunct"...why is the fact that you and others personally believe my faith to be "defunct" a problem? I don't see how people of faith are a "problem" simply because you don't share the same conviction. You put much more faith in your ability and right to judge humanity than you should. It's pretty simple people...divided we fall, and we're falling fast.