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Who cares if the Federal Reserve "is private"?
Submitted by atrickpay on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 21:13
I don't understand this populist argument... Do the promoters of this argument on here feel that it would it be better if the private banks that are part of the Federal Reserve System were all nationalized? » |
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You know what atrickpay, whoever you are,
you are a 'bore' and your question betrays your ignorance and your arrogance at the same time.
Quit playing with people here. We are trying to have a conversation about this, but as I read this thread, I can't help but notice you have absolutely NOTHING to offer here so why don't you give it up.
Really.
I mean really man.. Please understand that until we get transparency from the FED they are going to continue to decimate the value of the dollar. Ron has pointed this out numerous times. Competing currencies, it's not that hard to understand.. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
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Hey oruval,
my purpose in this thread was to see why some people always harp on the fact that the FED has private elements (ie. the private banks that it protects).
By always focusing on that, it seems like they just want the private elements stripped away, and that they would be fine with a fully governmental banking system that inflates the currency to zero!
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“The very word government means some men governing--ruling over others. But to the degree that men are ruled by other men, they exist in slavery. - The Market for Liberty
If the Fed was actually a
If the Fed was actually a government entity and it had to publicly ask congress before it gave out 9 trillion dollars in loans and guarantees to banks, do you think that would be better than what we have now or worse?
Ventura 2012
Sure, that'd be swell
if all Bernanke's projects (ex, TAF, TSLF, etc) had to be approved by Congress. That would make it slightly more difficult for him.
Btw, I'm not sure I understand this premise. In what sense are you saying it's not a government entity?
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“The very word government means some men governing--ruling over others. But to the degree that men are ruled by other men, they exist in slavery. - The Market for Liberty
If the Fed was a government
If the Fed was a government entity, it would not be allowed to refuse information regarding who it has made emergency loans to, which it can do because it is privately owned. If the Fed was a 100% pure Government bank, there is no WAY it would be allowed to be so secretive.
Ventura 2012
We all should!
Congress abandoned it's duty to coin money and turned it over to the Federal Reserve - an unelected , unaccountable, bunch of bankers. To the question posed, no, they just need to get out of the Federal Reserve and return to honest money (aka gold and silver--google Lakota bank for a group doing it right!)
) Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
The Federal Reserve
is private to the point where no one even knows the names of all of the members! Seriously, a list of the full membership of the Federal Reserve is unavailable. An organization that secretive has to be up to no good.
Do you mean board members?
If so, I do believe those are "publicly" available.
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
In response to:
"Do the promoters of this argument on here feel that it would it be better if the private banks that are part of the Federal Reserve System were all nationalized?"
The answer is, absolutely NOT!
The charter of 1913, called, The Federal Reserve Act, gave unlimited, 'exclusive' license to these private bankers (estimated about 300 elite families here and abroad with one 'share' each) , in a nutshell, to organize, print, and distribute 'dollars' based on every dollar borrowed. Since they centrally 'control' interest rates arbitrarily, according to 'their' whim, they also control the boom and bust cycles that are practically non-existent in a 'free market'. It is during these boom/bust cycles this cabal 'takes their profits' through foreclosure of 'properties. It was an ingenious plan back then to put an end to business 'competition' and competing currencies and bank competition.
For those who are still unfamiliar with this 'set up' go here for education:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8484911570371055528
Of course, as a result, the human impact has always been hideously egregious, because they are attempting to impose an 'unnatural' design on 'natural organized chaos' which always works to the 'highest' benefit of any free society.
Because this is a 'private' syndicate, this cabal of bankers currently, are not subjected in the least to any SEC, Congressional, or any 'governmental' oversight whatsoever.
The Federal Reserve, in its almost 100 years, has never been audited and we still do not know 'where all the gold went'!!!!
This is nothing more than a 'front' for dictatorship! There has never been any transparency as far as public accounting of 'the books' are concerned because as a rule, 'private companies' are not subject to public display of their books.
As a result of their 'exclusive' license to print money, these bankers 'own' almost all of our politicians at all three levels of government!
My proposal, would be that at least 2/3 of all 50 State Governors support a motion/Bill, declaring this current charter 'null and void', while introducing a 'new' sovereign State charter, that makes 'the people' the beneficiaries of this 'new' banking system that may be run State by State, and whose own State currencies would be 'competing' currencies.
Once 2/3 of all 50 States pass their 10 amendment sovereignty Bills, these States would then exercise their sovereignty by an unanimously supporting the above Bill.
The Board of Directors of each 'State Monetary Reserve' would be 'elected' by citizen vote. Each State Monetary Reserve would enjoy the sovereign protection of each State and would fund local 'private' banks that would offer mortgage, personal, and business loans. No more 'Fannie Mae'/Freddie Mac!
The interest would circulate back into the Reserve and build up 'resource monies' or savings. The people of each State would have to decide if this would be the base monies in which to fund a 'limited' government and cut back on taxation.
Most important of all, the laws governing the State Monetary Reserve could include a stipulation whereby the books of the reserve would be made public each quarter.
BTW, 2/3rds of 50 States would be 34 States!
That would be the number of States needed to push a motion/Bill to end the 1913 charter and introduce the 'new' one.
Not 100% sure this could be done, but we truly need to start thinking how we can do something like this! We need a solid plan with a solid political mechanism.
OK, but monetary socialism?
OK, good. We agree on that.
No Congressional oversight? I don't believe that is true...it's the Congress that sets the mandate for the Federal Reserve board!
That's because there is no "political will". If the majority of Congresspeople truly wanted to audit it, it would happen in a flash. I don't think there is anything inherently preventing government oversight or an audit.
I don't get this...why not just trust the free-market to provide money? Why monetary socialism?
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
Alright, atrick.
Please lay out how your 'free market' would 'magically' provide money when we haven't even collectively established, through the political system, what that money will be?
How is my idea 'socialism'?
OK
Your question contains a false premise. Free-market money is not established by any political system. It is determined by the voluntary interactions of individuals (as opposed to the coercive force of the political system).
So, how would it be produced? Simple. Money is a good. Therefore it would be produced just like other goods such as shoes or underwear.
The term 'socialism' is commonly used to refer to State control. So, because you were advocating State control of money, that's why!
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
Know something 'atrickpay',
you didn't give YOUR idea of how it would WORK then. You just stated a 'theory', not a proposal or idea.
Where are you getting your 'economic philosophy' from? You probably read a little Ayn Rand and you act like you know it all.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. You just seem to enjoy making your snide little comments.
well, let's see...
You're saying it's OK that a private corporation exchanges goods and services for worthless paper, backed by the barrel of a gun. Without government authorization, the Fed would be the largest counterfeiting and extortion racket in the world. Guess what? Since the federal government does NOT have the authority to violate the Constitution, the Fed IS a criminal organization. Roosevelt and Congress authorized the worthless Federal Reserve Note under the amended War Powers Act, allowing the government at its discretion to confiscate the property and services (read: enslavement) of every man, woman and child in America, by declaring us "enemies of the state". Read how the Constitution defines treason; then, tell me this is OK.
And, now, it still wouldn't be right if a national bank did it. What bothers me the most is that this is treated as a legitimate debate among economists instead of the hideous crime it is..
I agree
Didn't say that!
OK, good. Then we agree. The reason, I made this thread is that some people, by attacking the private elements of the FRS seem to imply that they want a "national bank" (or to nationalize all the private banks).
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
The issue that I have with
The issue that I have with it is that private bankers have control over a great deal of our financial system via the quasi-governmental federal reserve. They are not elected. They are extremely secretive. What we need is for the federal reserve to be open, honest and accountable - but they are none of that. Until they are, how can we trust them at all?
There is no reason whatsoever for private individuals to have this level of control over our nation and the future of it.
It's not as if ending the federal reserve is akin to nationalizing private banks. It would be getting private banks out of government or the semi-governmental role that they play via the fed.
Point blank, we did not elect these people. They do not represent us, they represent themselves and their banks. They do not conduct themselves in accordance with our best interests at heart.
...
FED more transparent?
Are you saying that you'd be fine if they were elected? I hope not.
Same thing...Are you saying that you'd be fine with the FED if it was sufficiently transparent to your likings?
Balderdash. We need to be able to kill the FED thru competition in money...not have it run "more efficiently" or "transparently" or more "for the people"...
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
Personally, I would like to
Personally, I would like to see the federal reserve abolished. But if it is not abolished, then an open and honest federal reserve with governors who are elected by the people rather than appointed by the bankers would be my second preference. As it stands now, it's easier for Congress to get information from the CIA...
...
Fascinating how this argument takes us AWAY from the truth
Why?
Why do we need to get away from the truth. How is humanity served by discussing "components" of a situation and ignoring the truth?
This is not a currency argument even though it is being made out as one.
This is not an ownership argument.
This is a legal argument and a moral argument. Refusal to ENGAGE in the debate from a legal moral standpoint DOES NOT change the truth. The people in power have always managed the control grid in this fashion and my hat is off to them...mission accomplished.
If the chairman of this FED bank addressed the TV with "I am the hired representative for the people listed below and we pursue goals and policies that are not shared with the electorate..."
http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/federal_reserve.shtml
Then I would say "...well at least the scumbag is admitting that he and his bosses are scumbags...got to go with the guy he's telling the truth..."
Now, atrikster, I ask of thee...it is NOT about tstorey..is it? It was never about tstorey and never will be for I am but a little bitty poster on da gweat big internet.
It is about the truth and the truth is that the fed obtained control of the debt of the United States through FRAUD. Simple concept really.
You see a man is OWNED by his debt. I own your debt I can seize your assets and jail you. I can do what I please with you.
God gave each of us free will. Your bankers have taken that away.
Not a "private" "public" debate, kind sir. The truth is what is needed for within us...within each of us in our hearts dwelleth the truth and with that truth, the Lord.
You gonna sell me that "Mr. Fed Ben" is working in my interests? Sell away brother...I ain't buyin' and thank God I am still free NOT to buy.
Unify
It IS a public vs private debate
This is the most critical aspect of the monetary system. We cannot escape from the clutches of the FED because it is PUBLIC, if it were private with no monopoly powers then we would be able to escape debt. As freedom advocates we should vie to move towards a privatized monetary system, not away from it.
"Greater than the force of mighty armies is the power of an idea whose time has come"
- Victor Hugo
"Greater than the force of mighty armies is the power of an idea whose time has come"
- Victor Hugo
Accuracy + clarity
Because, quite simply I believe a lot of people on here have been falsely mislabeling the "components". Ie. saying it's private when it's in fact governmental.
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
It is a cartel
It is both private and governmental. It is a cartel of international bankers from around the world who have come together to limit competition and control the money supply and own the debt of nations and thereby own the governments of those nations. It is a means to an end result of one world government and one world currency which is not intrinsically a bad thing. The fact that the one world government they are seeking is a collectivist totalitarian one is the problem.
Yup, it's a cartel
Agreed.
Yes, the Federal Reserve System is both private + public...The Federal Reserve itself is a government body. The banks that it protects are private.
Well I'm not a statist. So, I disagree. I believe it's intrinsically bad.
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
"Yes, the Federal Reserve
"Yes, the Federal Reserve System is both private + public...The Federal Reserve itself is a government body. The banks that it protects are private."
The Federal Reserve System is a both governmental and private body for governmental and private purposes.
Ventura 2012
Yup
I agree.
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"It’s common among conservatives to call for a return to the Constitution. But why stop there? Let’s return to the Articles of Confederation, the original founding document." - Lew Rockwell
Because It Is Forced Money
http://mises.org/story/3340
"Forced money, "owes its existence to violations of property rights." It satisfies the requirement of facilitating trade, but superior monies can't be used without exposing the user to some degree of violence.
If governments have banking cartels, they can expand public credit without capital.
Look at it this way. If a dollar represents a "Stock certificate" or "Share" then the government or banking cartel can print extra shares into existence. The more shares you have, the more power "votes" the shareholder has. Fiat currency violates your property rights, as you do not have the exclusive privilege to counterfeit more shares.
One cannot export Democracy at the barrel of a gun.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Yes, obviously forced money is bad...
But my question in starting the thread, was why do people rail on the fact that the Federal Reserve has private elements (ie. the private banks that ir protects)?
I was wondering if the people who decry it's "private nature" want to see the private elements (ie. the private banks) nationalized.
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"I believe that all government is evil in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty." - H.L. Mencken
The Creature from Jekyll Island
Anyone interested in the history and purpose of the Federal Reserve should read this book by G. Edward Griffin. Or see The Capitalist Conspiracy, G. Edward Griffin on youtube.
www.freedom-force.org is his website for more info. on the Fed.