ABOLISH THE FED !! This should be our #1 goal
Submitted by kane1 on Tue, 02/24/2009 - 14:05
You know, we stay pretty focus here, but most of the country are still debating over the little things, but don't get me wrong, even these little things aren't so little. But we need to get to the source and totally focus in on that. The source of all the corruption is of coarse the FED and the international banking systems.
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For some reason, people here
For some reason, people here are poo-pooing the thread starters suggestion over and over because they think that "just getting rid of the fed wont solve anything because we could still get a central bank". It is so obvious to me that the Fed will never go away unless people agree that we dont need a central bank to begin with, and I have never heard any proponent of ending the Fed besides Milton Friedman say otherwise.
Ventura 2012
It has little to do with The People.
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The FED was brought into legal standing in 1913 by an act of Congress. It will take another act of Congress to repeal it.
I don't see this happening any time soon.
The people's will was disenfranchised long ago. We count for nothing anymore.
Still, it's a nice idea. But, regrettably, that is all that it is.
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I think that it's in our
I think that it's in our best interest to make it clear to other people the specific reasons why we want to "End the Fed", so people aren't misled into believing we are against only the Fed specifically, and not against the idea of a central bank, or government intervention, banning other currencies, etc.
The reason why many of us target the Fed first is because we are against the idea of having a central bank, and the government manipulating the value of our money, the economic problems it causes, and the fact that the Fed is the source of most of the government's power over our lives.
It should be made clear that we do not want a replacement of the Fed, but instead want a free market, in banking and every other industry. I have not seen or heard of an instance where an artificial monopoly is beneficial in general, whether it's a central bank, or a government, or anything else.
It would be a tragedy if this "End the Fed" thing caught on, but led to a mere replacement of the monopoly rather than a complete abolishment of central banking altogether, because we focused too much on the Fed specifically and not enough on the reasons why the Fed should be abolished.
Rebuttal
You have some great ideas, but without any plan for implementation.
I think that it's in our best interest to make it clear to other people the specific reasons why we want to "End the Fed", so people aren't misled into believing we are against only the Fed specifically, and not against the idea of a central bank, or government intervention, banning other currencies, etc.
How will you do this?
The reason why many of us target the Fed first is because we are against the idea of having a central bank, and the government manipulating the value of our money, the economic problems it causes, and the fact that the Fed is the source of most of the government's power over our lives.
The FED has no governmental power over our lives, except that it regulates the money. The government and the FED are separate entitites.
It should be made clear that we do not want a replacement of the Fed, but instead want a free market, in banking and every other industry. I have not seen or heard of an instance where an artificial monopoly is beneficial in general, whether it's a central bank, or a government, or anything else.
OK! Make it clear to whom? How will you do this?
It would be a tragedy if this "End the Fed" thing caught on, but led to a mere replacement of the monopoly rather than a complete abolishment of central banking altogether, because we focused too much on the Fed specifically and not enough on the reasons why the Fed should be abolished.
This is good. But how are you going to accomplish it? THAT is the real problem we face. Few listen, and those that do listen are pretty much powerless.
When you tell someone that
When you tell someone that you want to "End the Fed", tell them the broader reasons, so they don't think you just have some grudge against the Fed specifically or some specific things the Fed does, and then thinks that "we should replace the Fed with something 'better'". That's all I meant. You blew it way out of proportion like it should be some huge plan that requires the cooperation of millions of people.
If you want to promote ending the Fed, then please make sure your reasons are clearly given, so misunderstandings of what you want are reduced. That's the entire point I was trying to make. It's a very minor point, but it's something that shouldn't be overlooked. That's all I was trying to get across in my comment.
You are looking at it wrong
Values would be adjusted to be priced in gold. Gold is another currency. The Euro is another currency. The Yen is another currency. A gold backed dollar would be just another currency.
There would have to be an exchange rate established by Congress. That whole constitutional provision to regulate the value of the currency and all. One gold dollar would be exchanged for X number of FRN bills. X in this case may be tens of thousands of dollars, maybe even hundreds of thousands to 1. I would keep the 1 ounce of gold is 50 US dollars standard and 1 ounce of silver is 1 US dollar to match the currently produced coins. Gold would be revalued in FRN to some very high number.
One ounce of gold would be enough, everyone would own just a very small part of it.
Absolutely agree with the goals
stated in this video; but isn't the agent featured in it now in jail, or do I have him confused with another resister featured in Russo's Freedom to Fascism?
Joe Banister
beat the IRS. http://freedomabovefortune.com/
You might be thinking about Sherry P. Jackson (CPA and former Revenue Agent with the Examination Division of the IRS) who was railroaded and is now in prison for a few years because she "decided to get off of the plantation and actively educate others and myself about the misapplication and misrepresentation of the federal income tax." http://www.sherrypeeljackson.com/
Questions to ask The fed
1) how much money does the federal government owe the FED?
2) Home many dollars of federal reserve notes are in circulation?
3)How many dollars is the fed printing each week?
4) What is the interest being charged to the US government?
5) why does the Fed refused to be audited?
6) Does the Untied States need a central bank?
Don't ask us !
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Send a letter to the FED with your questions. See what they respond and post the response on this site.
These are great questions, but re: #6) a central bank is not
authorized in the Constitution.
Debbie
Great point. But...
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Congress has legislative discretion and can bring into law whatever they like. In 1913 the FED was approved by Congress. The Constitution gives them the right to do it.
It will take another act of Congress to abolish the FED.
Won't happen this week !
While we are abolishing --
How about abolishing the federal government?
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
You can't unpush
The union button.. you must first resort to the Constitutional Manuel and get the 10 amendment reset code.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
This is my Favorite video to educate people on the FED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE
"Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you."
Thomas Jefferson
www.LibertySpammer.com
"Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you."
Thomas Jefferson
www.LibertySpammer.com
Recent Article of my Local Paper
http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/02/24/news/nh527343...
Here is my response to the article -
" The bankrupt State Governments are going to the bankrupt Federal Government for help. The Federal Government is turning to the Federal Reserve Bank, which is private institution, and the Federal Reserve prints up the Federal Reserve Notes (dollars), which it trades with the Federal Government for Treasury Notes. The Federal Reserve either has to borrow the money from other countries or print the money in order to assist in these bailout and stimulus robberies.
That increase in the money supply WILL lead to higher energy and food prices for us all. So while these politicians argue about where to spend this money and who gets in the increase of the money supply first, just remember that you are fitting the bill for these losing legislative bills through increased prices that are just around the corner.
The government has to take from the productive areas of the economy in order to support the non-productive areas. The government cannot create anything and only stifles our economy.
This reckless policy of deficit spending financed through a private central bank too shall end, but just remember where the money is coming from. It is coming from the Federal Reserve. Since the dollar is not tied to any metal like gold or silver, as it was just a few decades ago, our government can create as many dollars as it wishes which then devalues the dollars of all of your savers out there.
It does not take a genius to see that when you make more dollars now, the past dollars created become worth less. Our dollar has lost 98% of its value since the Federal Reserve has been created and the main goal of the Federal Reserve was to stabilize the dollar. How well did that work out for us?
So argue all you want about the government stimulating the economy. It is only taking from you and me and giving it to their friends first. By the time it gets to us the money will be worthless. "
It's a worthy goal...eventually
I think desiring the elimination of the Federal Reserve is a very worthy cause.
The problem is, we don't have a viable plan to replace the current system. You can't say implement the gold standard, because that is entirely impossible. There isn't enough gold on Earth to back our currency.
What mechanism could the monetary system run by, if not for the Fed?
How would money be introduced? Would you allow congress to set an arbitrary amount of money to print? Have printing fixed to a GNP growth number? Who would receive the money first, and by what circumstances?
I'm not being dismissive, i truly am asking for a working mechanism.
Calling for an end to the IRS and to income taxes is a wonderful thing to base our message one. I head Dr. Paul call for those things, and I think of freedom from the yoke of taxes.
Calling for an end to the Federal Reserve though...it doesn't ring with most people. The problem is, most people don't know how the fed works, while the IRS they are reminded of every April. The fed taxes them by slowly stealing the money from under their noses...but they don't understand how it works.
Within our conversations, of course calling for an end to the Federal Reserve is a great rallying cry, but don't make our message revolve around a system almost no one alive has lived without and which barely anyone alive truly understands how it works.
Think of it as a fish, you reel them in with universally accepted messages like end the wars and end the income tax. Once people hear this message, it'll peak their interest in the liberty movement, and learn what's needed to know about the Federal Reserve system.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Question for you JZneff:
What is your opinion on a an ongoing referendum type system where the taxpaying citizens actually get to choose different categories that there taxes get spent on.
For example: If the taxpayers do not want war, then they will choose not to fund the military as much as they might want to build roads or fund education. Why not be able to allocate your taxes to the areas that you feel are needed most? I'm sure this would cause a lag effect in the areas of industries requiring tax money, but I think this method holds a significant value in measuring the 'pulse of america'.
Your thoughts? Could this be viable?
Better than the current system
But the government's power is largely derived from their ability to steal from you and reallocate the money to someone else. You would be facing nearly the same uphill climb that we would be in just eliminating the income tax entirely.
If this were the case, i'd like to have all of my tax dollars put into cash and burned in a campfire on the White House lawn. I doubt that would be an option though.
I don't think it's realistic.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Rethink your digtal ink...
"The problem is, we don't have a viable plan to replace the current system. You can't say implement the gold standard, because that is entirely impossible. There isn't enough gold on Earth to back our currency."
The only way this could be true is if the value of our currency and the tangible value of gold has decoupled so far that it would destroy the U.S. economy.(Perhaps it has). However, If you read Creature, or maybe it was Crahproof.(?) the author explains that as long as there is a quantity of an item that is divisible, then a value can be pegged to it. Therefore, there is enough gold. Perhaps it would create massive havoc because gold would suddenly jump to a hypothetically astronomical amount(e.g. $45000/oz._pur speculation BTW). Indeed, it would cause a catastrophic influx within our economy-- however, to say it s impossible or that there is not enough that exists is mathematically inaccurate.
Massive havoc
Theoretically, I guess it's possible to destroy the dollar so that gold is right priced for backing.
Good luck getting America to follow you down this rabbit hole. Massive havoc is something that 95% of Americans would never accept.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Ron Paul discusses the Gold standard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHPSmslIOfc
beesting
We CAN go on a Gold/Silver standard!
You wrote: "There isn't enough gold on Earth to back our currency."
Currently you are correct, but what if hyperinflation hits the dollar caused by foreign dollar holders exchanging their dollars for Gold or any other medium of exchange, as is currently happening in Zambia, formerly Northern Rhodesia.
Banks around the world won't accept Zambian money because it is a government issued I.O.U. with no real value.
If the ' Value' of the U.S. dollar completely crashed, a few ounces of Gold would buy all of the dollars in existence.
It happened in Wiemer Germany, to U.S. Continental dollars, to U.S. Greenbacks, and to Confederate U.S. dollars.
Isn't the U.S. dollar simply a promissory note? What does it Promise?
Well, at one time it did promise the holder that it was redeemable in Gold, that's when it had universal value all over the world.
Unfortunately most Americans don't even know that there are Gold/Silver monetary systems already in existence.
How do you think the New Hampshire Goldmoney bill works?
Please, please, take the time to study it.
http://www.goldmoneybill.org/
Should we let the dollar crash or should we read up on these proposed state honest money bills just to understand how a monetary system could work without using FRN's.
beesting
It's not a promissary note
A dollar is not a promise of anything from the government. The government backing is not what gives a dollar its value.
A dollars value is derived because it is the only legal tender available in the US, and everyone desires more of them. Since someone will trade his productive work for dollars, and people will sell their goods in dollars, the value of a dollar is implied.
The dollar's value is not about to go the route of Weimar Germany or Zimbabuwe. Those were currencies which had a much smaller economy driving their value. With time and more stupidity, yeah, they probably will destroy the dollar, but not any time soon.
The reason our money can't be backed by gold is the economy is too large, there is simply too much value to consider a backing in the traditional sense. Even attempting a backing could bring about a disaster.
This is a delicate system, and one that's very well entrenched. If returning to honest money were as simple as flipping a switch, it would have been done by now.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Perhaps you remember the Liberty Silver dollars.
Liberty dollars, in time, could have replaced many,many paper dollars. The FBI stole them because they were more valuable then FRN's and didn't want the general public to get used to using them. The "Legal Tender" stamped on dollars is supposed to make them more valuable than Silver/Gold, and we the people fall for this fraud!
The stock market recently was about half as valuable as it was when the DOW was over 14,000, where did all those dollars go? Can you say "POOF"?
Derivatives are crashing in dollar value. Where are those dollars going? Again "POOF" into cyberspace. Apparently, the Fed masters and Treasury bosses are using the same failed policies that were used in 1930-1941.
How did the USA finely survive the great depression? Stimulus packages???
Nooo, the American people began to "Produce" like they had never produced before, unfortunately it took millions of lives in WW II to reach a production level that would once again allow Americans to enjoy a high standard of living.
I submit, sound money and production at all levels, including in basements and garages, with very few regulations, will give Americans prosperity once again.
Developing our own natural resources once again for our own consumption is a start.
beesting
Ok...but
It still does not change the fact that there is not enough gold or silver on Earth to back our currency. Not even close. The Liberty dollars were a worthy competing currency, and should not have been raided by the feds, but it represented a very small slice of our total currency. I'm talking about the possibility of backing FRN's with gold and silver...and it's not going to be possible.
You didn't read what I wrote. The legal tender stamp doesn't mean anything about the value of the dollar. The value is derived because it's something that everyone wants.
Did I ever defend the stimulus package? Why would you lecture me on the usefulness of the stimulus package?
I don't find wealth redistribution as harmful to the overall economy as you might...it's akin to pulling buckets from the deep end of a pool and pouring them into the shallow end, in an effort to make the shallow end deeper.
WW2 did not pull us out of the depression. Most decent economists will tell you that we were well into the 1950's before we were out of it.
It wasn't the war, it wasn't FDR, Truman, or Ike. It wasn't stimulus, it wasn't anything more than pure psychology. People believed the depression was over, and then it was.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
What Ron Paul said about not enough Gold!
From Ron Paul's money book page 213, the 5 myths about Gold:
Myth #1: "There isn't enough Gold"
{ Ron Paul's words } "I find it amazing that economists can make statements like this, for it is an elementary principal of economics that if one raises the price of a commodity, one will always have enough of that commodity.
What we saw in the runup of the Gold prices is in fact the raising of the price of Gold to match the depreciation of the dollar that has occurred, and is still occurring.
Simply put, there will always be enough Gold so long as no one interferes with the free market mechanism.{ end Ron Paul's words }
Questions for you; Has the world run out of any commodities yet? Do the powers that bee use scare tactics to reach their objectives?
Please argue with Ron Paul not me, I'm just an old beekeeper.
beesting
True
Unfortunately, if we back our currency with gold, the price of gold would skyrocket and the value of a dollar would crash.
Announcing the backing of the currency is not akin to allowing the free market to work. It is manipulation into a complex system, even if the aims are truly beneficial.
If you were to back our currency with gold, the price of gold would instantly go up 50 times over. The feds would be obligated to deliver gold at a set price, and they would get instanltly overwealmed by gold delivery orders.
The dollar would in turn fall by a significant amount, which would upend the economy. Businesses would be instantly hit with raw material skyrockets and employee demands for instant raises. Anyone who had their life savings in dollars would soon find that they were broke.
It would dry up the market, it would end the America as we know it.
Don't put your eggs all into the gold standard basket. We're nowhere near the position to take that step.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
If you've been following Ron Paul,,
,,You may remember he proposed 'competing' currencies, which means some may be backed by Gold/Silver, some may not.
But when the dust clears { several years ??? } I would guess the Gold/Silver backed currencies would be the last ones standing.
beesting
I agree
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A good idea doesn't mean much unless there is a way to implement it. Your post was on-target and a welcome voice of realistic sanity.