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rhino: I see the following topic in the same view that I viewed the FLDS issue

I don't care what you think about the mom. She is the mom and has done nothing illegal. This is rediculous if it is true ...

And for the record ...

I publicly stated that I would be willing to sacrifice my life if it was to ensure that those FLDS kids were to be reunited with their parents...

Octuplet mom fears hospital may not release babies

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Nadya Suleman has voiced concern that the hospital where her octuplets are being cared for may prevent her from taking them home when they're healthy enough in coming weeks. But in reality, hospitals don't prevent healthy children from going home - child protective services do.

And that's only if a complaint has been filed. Hospital employees are mandated to report to county authorities any concerns they have about unsuitable home environments, a mother's emotional or psychological instability, or any other situation that could result in harm to a child.

According to talk show host Dr. Phil McGraw, the 33-year-old unemployed mother called him Tuesday and said hospital officials were worried that her current living arrangement wouldn't be suitable.

Stu Riskin, a spokesman for Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services, said the agency cannot comment specifically on Suleman's situation and could not confirm whether a case had been opened on her family.

...

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090226/D96J0F0O0.html



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I guess

there's more than one way to look at it ... like many other things.

You are perfectly entitled to your interpretation.

She is committing child

She is committing child abuse here by putting her kids in a position where they cannot possibly even be well fed given her economic situation. The government is responsible for enforcing such laws and I see no reason why they shouldnt here, wary as I am of social services.

Ventura 2012

Child abuse?

I would argue that all kids raised in poverty have many more survival skills than those born with silver spoons.

Also, I would argue that if the safety nets went away tomorrow, there would be less of a chance that people will have kids that they cannot afford. And if they do, private charities would be in a better position to help.

Your view of public assistance, while important and has merit, is a red herring with respect to this topic.

Many kids are born today to families that are on the dole. Should we put them all in the system. If so, how much would that cost us as tax payers?

If CPS became the ward of these children, it would be much more expensive to the taxpayer than if they remained in the custody of their mother.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

"Also, I would argue that if

"Also, I would argue that if the safety nets went away tomorrow, there would be less of a chance that people will have kids that they cannot afford."

duh

"Many kids are born today to families that are on the dole. Should we put them all in the system. If so, how much would that cost us as tax payers?"

These kids are already in the system.

Ventura 2012

i supported the FLDS

and i'm not even religious. there were a handful of us that kept those threads bumped until it was over and most of the kids were back home.

that said, this women is crazy. crazy like a fox maybe, but crazy none the less. can you say media whore/profiteer, disgustingly irresponsible behavior.

---------------
“A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement” - Thomas Jefferson

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I don't agree with your assessment ...

but let's say I do ...

now what ...

We make the kids wards of the state?

Come on people ...

think.

I thought we were about freedom ...

Not freedom unless .....

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

With the exception of CPS...

There is no comparing the two issues.

FLDS was a witch hunt and an attempted persecution and crucifixion...This is a stupid kid who climbed on her own cross and wants to cry martyr.

This chick got her greed on with the current sensationalism and glamorization of mega-familes on television and decided to cash in on the fad of donated homes, vehicles, supplies, help etc...and if that wasn't possible...hey...there's always WIC and Medicaid out there...

Do programs like that promote irresponsibility? Yep. But as a believer in self government, I hold her actions accountable as an individual nation in chaos. An out of control individual that we shouldn't have sympathy for.

She's a mother alright...but I'm too much of a lady to tell you what kind of mother she is. I may not be smart when it comes to many things...but I'm definitely street smart. And I know when somebody is trying to play and I know when people are being played.

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Since when is greed and stupidty a justification ...

for the state to confiscate kids?

Is bad parenting a justification, because some here claim I am a bad parent even though they do not know me. Should I expect a knock on my door from CPS?

This is just crazy.

Public assistance is a seperate issue and we all feel the same way about that, but the state is offering it, so how can they use that as a justification for taking the kids.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

Well..like we say in the casino business...

Put up or shut up.

If you feel so strongly on her behalf then put your money where you mouth is and donate to help fund her legal fees against CPS..

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She will not need to pay for legal representation on this one.

And I couldn't care less about her ...

and only slightly more about her kids ... (O.K. maybe I do care about them quite a bit.)

The thing that I care about most of all is freedom.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

Yes, you do care, Rhino.

...and I was touched by that.

That was my point to you below.

I know you care about freedom, but some of the other things you have said in this thread tell me that there is more to this with you than just the freedom issue. :)

rolling eyes ^^

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I think it would be funny

if she sued the Doctor he knew she was unwed with six kids. You know who should sue the doctor, the government. LOL Sorry, I know this is serious but gotta say growing up I never dreamed these would be the problems our country would be facing. I keep hearing about over population and people are having litters. I think I'm in shock and I talk goofy when I hear crazy things. Sorry

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Hmmm

Did the Doctor do something wrong? She hired him to perform a service, paid cash and he followed through. I don't think it's the Doctors responsibility to take a background check & credit report on their patients.

This is a slippery slope ladies & gentleman. If we allow government to set arbitrary rules defining what a "fit" parent is, or how many children you can have, then we are all in trouble. This is where it's going, don't be surprised when it bites everyone on the butt.

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

I say....

Leave her alone. She has not committed a crime of any sort. Let her be free to choose the path on which she walks. You cannot blame her for collecting "state benefits". This is a problem with the state allowing those benefits in the first place.

I love hot-button issues like this, because it points out the hypocrisy of 'so-called' freedom loving people. Peoples private lives are nobodies business, not yours and not the governments.

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

Amen to that-very well said!

Amen to that-very well said!

sdczen...She did it to herself.

She made herself a ward of the government by accepting benefits and submitting her entire life to them. ie. she sold out in a sense...now they can make all kinds of claims on her. She made herself a part of the system and now she wants to complain the system isn't fair.

No sympathy here.

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No sympathy

I have no sympathy for her either. She can have a 100 babies for that matter. It's none of our business what an individual does with their life.

I didn't see where she said the system wasn't fair. Source?

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

She's collecting money on her site for legal expenses...

And yes it is our business when we're supporting her financially through our taxes.... Just like the banks...the car companies...insurance agencies etc...
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You are getting mad at an

You are getting mad at an individual for using the system that was setup for people like her. Of course we are supporting her through taxes & welfare. You are blaming the result (her) of a failed system (government).

As long as the tax/welfare system is in place, supporting a broad range of people (races, gender addicts, lazy, uneducated etc...), of whom do we criticize? We can make a case against all of these people receiving any kind of taxpayer subsidy. Just because Octo-mom has crossed some sort of arbitrary line of poor judgment, everyone seems to have a problem with it.

My contention is it's the system that breeds behavior like this and it's the system the perpetuates it. Get mad at her and all the rest of the welfare kings/queens, but if you really want to correct the behavior, you have to stop it at the root.

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

I know many are up in arms

I know many are up in arms about the fact she cannot provide monetarily for them herself, but what she does contribute to their well being, security, and just being a mother who truly loves and wants her children is something you cannot put a price tag on. Why is she any less deserving than someone else who may have less children, but possibly been on the programs all their lives? She doesn't deserve to have those kids taken away from her. For those who think it is acceptable for them to be taken, how would you feel if some other trumped excuse comes along to cause you to lose your own children? There are people who actually abuse their children, and many who also "provide" for them, are still not providing emotionally to them-she loves and cares for her children, who is anyone else to judge whether or not she can properly provide for them? She is also working toward a better future for them.

Octo-Mom

Has been living off the government dole for quite some time and currently accepting donations from the average citizen in sympathy of her cause. She is taking these donations and (from what was reported on the news) looking at million dollar homes and nannies.

My head screams con. Nobody does something for nothing. To me this was a well orchestrated and thought out scam. It's just too bad children are involved.

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Buyer beware. Is it the

Buyer beware. Is it the fault of the Octo-mom that she receives money from the state? Or, is it the states policies that allow Octo-mom (and others) to benefit? There shouldn't be a benefit at all, for anyone. Also, anyone that wants to send her money to help her out? Free will and buyer beware.

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

I would have loved to have a ton of kids.

But not at the expense of the taxpayer. Is it the fault of Octo-Mom that she receives money from the state?

Yes. Two answers. Birth control and self control on the first six.

Beyond that is morbid irresponsibility on her part. Nobody forced her to apply for government assistance. She did it herself and is now a celeb welfare queen.

But please feel free to donate your hard earned money to her. If you can't spot the hustle than you need to get street smart.

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Ha!

You've got the cart before the horse. There should be no system of welfare for her to collect from the state in the first place.

She has the right to choose to use birth control or have babies. This is not our place to interfere.

It maybe irresponsible for her to have so many babies, however, it is still her right as an individual.

I will never donate any money to her. I think she needs a cold shoulder from the state and from individuals. My solution is to ignore her so she doesn't get anymore money being a pseudo-celebrity. Let her fail miserably, then the babies can be adopted out to the thousands of wanting & caring would-be parents. That's my opinion, but the bottom line is she is free to choose her own path. If she succeeds, then great. If she fails, then her babies will go to someone who will take care of them. It's still no of our business.

www.coinaxis.com - ~ Learn more about bitcoin/litecoin, and how they relate to the liberty movement.

OK, maybe I'm wrong.

This woman says that she is going to bring home her 8 new children, then go back to school to get her Master's degree, then get a job, pay her bills, and raise her children.
The hospital bill alone is probably already well over a million dollars.
I wish her the very best of luck.

What has she done wrong?

Under what authority, does some one believe they have the right to kidnapp and hold hostage someones children? I agree w/ the statement that it reminds me of the FLDS nightmare. Is there nothing more sacred than the relationship between parent and child? What law has been broken here? Are we now in the practice of conviction before any crime? Who defines ability to provide? Should we now allow the State to decide, or the Hospital Workers who now act as agents for the State decide, who can take their children who and who can not? If this is to be the case, I suggest tipping your Doctors and Nurses in the future. Especially when your children visit the Pediatrician.
So we have now evolved to a point where the State claims ownership of our children from birth. We send our children to State Run indoctrination facilities where they are "properly educated". Always under the eye of the ever watchful State and it's agents. Should any red flags be raised during the indoctrination process that go against the wishes of the State and it's agents a simple phone call sends in the SWAT. At what point do people say NO? WE ARE NOT PROPERTY OF THE STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I personally view CPS and the State Controlled Medical Community as the ground level brown shirts.Their secondary function is to keep their eyes open on behalf of the State and it's process of socialising us to be good little workers. How does the song go..."These are the people in your neighborhood"???
If anyone wishes to make the argument that this Mother doesn't pass some sort of insane financial qualification...Tell me again after the book deal and made for TV movie. The money she is making from the pictures alone will provide for nice college funds for all 14 of them. How ever, this is just as silly an argument....

The issue that I see most

The issue that I see most often is related to this woman having so very many kids without the means to support them.

Her kids should be with her for as long as she is capable of supporting them in at least a reasonably minimal manner. They do not need to have everything in the world, but if she can keep them fed, clean and with shelter I think they all would be fine with her. The realization is probably that the mother will be totally unable to do this, others will need to do it for her. Still, she should have the chance and we should hope that she succeeds.

...

I hope and pray that there can be a way, help somehow...

... for this mother to be able and successful in caring for her children.

Rhino, I am touched that you see this the way you do. You have blessed me with your "two cents" regarding this story.

You are a praying man. Please remember this family in your prayers.