Jefferson was one of the worst Presidents we had.
Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite and earned a "bad" classification according to the book Recarving Rushmore by Ivan Eland. It's been a very interesting read and I highly recommend it to all who study peace, liberty, and prosperity. He uses those three metrics to chart all of our presidents.
http://www.independent.org/store/book_detail.asp?bookID=77
I always considered Jefferson a beacon of liberty. However, as President he ran an embargo against all US foreign trade in late 1807 and then instituted the equivalent of marshal law to enforce the embargo. People were starving by 1808 due to the embargo. The Embargo Act allowed for searches, seizures, and arrests without warrants and only on suspicion that the person was going to export a good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embargo_Act_of_1807
He set the precedent for relocating Indians into "empty western land" and violated the constitution by purchasing France's claim to the Louisiana Territory with out congressional approval.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118624412/abstrac...
http://www.landandfreedom.org/ushistory/us6.htm
Jefferson also did several things well, but the embargo and marshal law are enough to drop him into the bad category.
Marking down Jefferson for
Marking down Jefferson for the Louisiana purchase is just plain dumb. It is the largest peaceful acquisition of territory in world history, for one.
Jefferson and Madison went over the pros and cons of the purchase, you know.
Madison basically said, just do it. This is in such a tremendous interest of the US that we can't let the opportunity slip away.
THEN CRUCIALLY, Madison and Jefferson never tried to justify the purchase with Constitutional arguments. They didn't do this, because they didn't want to set a precedent, which they didn't.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
We didn't buy the land. We
We didn't buy the land. We bought the claim for the land. We still had to kill millions of Indians to occupy the territory. I would wager that there are still plenty of Indians that would go to war with us today to reclaim "their" land.
are you 200+ years old?
Since I'm not, I can't say "we" bought anything or killed anyone, but maybe you are...
Haha, just given you a hard time.
And what of Washington?
He didn't allow Alexander Hamilton to run amock in Western Pennsylvania to prosecute the "Whiskey" rebels?
At least he gave them all full pardons.
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"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."
- Robert E. Lee, 1866
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RON PAUL 2012
He ranks Washington 7th. He
He ranks Washington 7th. He didn't like Washington's use of force in the Whiskey rebellion and makes the claim that the Governor of Pennsylvania thought he could handle the tax protests in the courts. He also drops him down for being a Federalist and wanting to expand the power of the executive branch. He gives him bonus points for wanting the Bill of Rights and setting the precedent of leaving office after two terms. He has references to Hamilton and the various policies that he wanted to enact. Hamilton sounds like your typical power grabbing politician.
History of the United States
History of the United States of America During the Administrations of Thomas Jefferson by Henry Adams
http://www.amazon.com/History-America-Administrations-Jeffer...
History of the United States During the Administrations of James Madison by Henry Adams
http://www.amazon.com/History-Administrations-Madison-Librar...
These two books, actually published as one book in 1889, have done more to trash Jefferson and Madison than any book in our history.
These books substituted the ideals of the Founding fathers for modern warmongers.
Henray Adams, grandson of John Quincy and great-grandson of John Adams, should ahve known better.
John Adams in his retirement said that James Madison was our greatest president, and John Quincy Adams said Madison and Washington were our greatest founding fathers.
Jefferson and Madison steered us through very difficult times and preserved the Constitution.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
After reading more, I see the point the book makes;
Thomas Jefferson may be one of the greatest American figures, however that does not mean he was one of the greatest at serving in the job of president -- which probably requires more restraint than Jefferson had.
On the other hand, someone like Ron Paul would probably make an outstanding President, as he has proven to show great restraint in strictly following the Constitution.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Jefferson was a great
Jefferson was a great president. The auther seems oblivious to the fact that the British were meddling in our commerce! What does the author think we supposed to do, sit back and do nothing!
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
His opinion seems that
His opinion seems that Jefferson would have been better served to exit the Jay treaty, stop allowing British sailors to immigrate so easily, stop laundering french products via our ships, and regain actual neutrality between the French and British. He states that the Embargo only hurt us in any real fashion and didn't diminish the British seizures.
Did he not consider that the
Did he not consider that the embargo hurt the British, allowing France and England to beat each other down for another 8 years? We would have gotten our asses kicked in the War of 1812 had it not been for the embargo. The British ecomony could not afford a real invasion of the U.S.
People forget, the British Empire won pretty much every war they fought from 1588 until after WWI.
We beat them twice, bucking the odds.
Why not allow British sailors to immigrate, that's not libertarian?
We also tried to be neutral but the European powers wouldn't let us.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
check and mate.
check and mate.
Ventura 2012
I don't think Eland has an
I don't think Eland has an axe to grind on Jefferson's philosophy. He seems to dislike his actions as President. It's a pretty big turn around for the author of the Declaration of Independence to attempt to stop all international trade and impose martial law. It would be like finding the founder of Green Peace driving a SUV and dumping toxic waste down his toilet.
His view seems to be that the embargo didn't hurt the British as much as it hurt us and it didn't really solve anything. As far as being a good libertarian view point. It seems that he makes the case that we were allowing easy forgery of documents and didn't show a good enough effort to maintain proper immigration procedures.
Excellent thanks for the info
It surprised me, the Jefferson/Madison Administration, "accidentally" put the Supreme Court in a position to interpret the Constitution.... [Marbury vs. Madison]
Ron Paul Praises the Book?
Praise for Recarving Rushmore
“In the intriguing book, Recarving Rushmore, Ivan Eland reassesses the record of all U.S. Presidents based on the constitutional principles that each swore to uphold. While conventional accounts glorify the flagrant misdeeds of the ‘Imperial Presidency,’ this insightful and crucial book provides an inspiring vision for both conservatives and liberals on the crucial need to rein in White House power and restore peace, prosperity and liberty.”
—Ron Paul, U.S. Congressman
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
I wouldn't say that's praise for the book's opinions
It's just an acknowledgement that other theories for being a "good or bad" president should be explored and are explored in this book.
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"this insightful and crucial book provides an inspiring vision"
You don't call that praise?
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Not really
If he said he agreed with the book's assessments then I'd consider it his endorsement of the author's conclusions. He IS praising the author's willingness to go out on a limb and redefine the greatest presidents of the United States. But I don't see it as clear cut as Ron Paul coming to the same conclusions as the author.
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Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currenc
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Jefferson's Rating:
"Thomas Jefferson, although a proponent of small government, imposed a trade embargo that curtailed the liberty he championed rhetorically and led to starvation in America. His unconstitutional Louisiana Purchase and his forced relocation of Native Americans to less desirable land farther west set bad precedents for acquiring new territory. Jefferson’s PP&L ranking is only 26, placing him near the top of the “bad” presidents category."
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
The Louisiana Purchase was
The Louisiana Purchase was bad? Really now. The fact is, the Constitution wasn't perfect and things like this were not covered.
I don;t recall Jefferson relocating Indians, I think the author confuses state action with the federal government.
As for bad precedents on gaining territory, we just bought the Louisiana territory. Isn't that beetr than armed conquest?
The auther confuses one-time gray-area actions of 200 years ago with routine violations of the Constitution today.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
Yes, it's bad
I fully agree that the government is far more ruthless and corrupt today.
However, the Louisiana Purchase made the fundamental government structure defunct. Men are free, by their consent they form a representative governing body, pass laws to suit their needs; then by independent delegation choose to enter into a compact with the united States. This is the form; purpose and effect of the compact.
The Federal Government [supposedly] was not designed to pilfer money by a presidential decree; had no jurisdictional authority to buy and sell people, property, territory, or States apon its whim. If Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence; drafted the Constitution and then abused every intended purpose as soon as the power was in his hands. I’d say that is pretty indicative of the flagrant ritualistic abuse that we’re accustomed to today.
I do like Thomas Jefferson and I respect much of his writings. His perspective has been a wonderful tool and I have learned quite a bit from him. He let the charter on the national bank expire and that is a plus - that it issued gold and silver has no bearing, the Fed issued specie certificates too. We have lost our way and millions of us unknowingly participate in our own destruction. I'm not looking to blame Jefferson, Wilson, FDR, Roosevelt, Bush or Obama. The fix-it hat rests on my head and only seek to learn the historical truth when it comes to past.
I agree. Jefferson wrote
I agree. Jefferson wrote great papers and had a great philosophy, but didn't live up to the call when he issued the embargo and marshal law. It's like having the greatest fire fighter in history turn out to be an arsonist. Just imagine if Ayn Rand was elected president, raised taxes, and started a welfare program.
Dr. Paul has pointed out...
That Jefferson was a much better theoretician than a politician
www.Umake.it - The online resource for the Hand Made Society
I agree with that.
I agree with that.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
One of the worst?
Isn't that a bit extreme?
I didn't find any martial law references in the links you provided. It does look like the Embargo Act was a very repressive trade policy..senseless and stupid. But Jefferson always tended toward an iron fist in matters involving trading ships.
John Adams doesn't score as much of a libertarian, either, due to the Alien and Sedition Acts.
They were both much greater founders than Presidents--they were heavy-handed. I don't think any of that is equivalent to the sort of lying schemers we have in the office today, though.
My gripe with the Constitution as written is that it invests way too much power in the Executive Branch...the behavior of Adams and Jefferson should serve as a sort of warning. I still support the original Constitution, though, despite its flaws.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
So true...
Jefferson doesn't even come close to Wilson, Lincoln or FDR in my book.
He puts Wilson at the bottom
He puts Wilson at the bottom of the list.
Bush is no piker.
I'd definitely put Bush among the five worst of all time. Along with Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
The bottom of the barrel for
The bottom of the barrel for the peace, liberty, and prosperity metrics are Kennedy, GW Bush, Polk, McKinley, Truman, and Wilson in last place.
The author's favorite president
Was a slave holder all his life-John Tyler, even during the civil war.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currenc
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currenc
LOL,That Says Something.
Jefferson is still a danger, after all these centuries, to the political elite, and thus must still be attacked.
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"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
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"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels