No prospect for takeover of GOP
I doubt if there is anyone so naive as to believe that the GOP is not controlled by the same globalist forces that control the Dems. They may let you take over a few rural counties, but they will not let you get far enough to be any threat to their power. And their minions have their phony-baloney "careers" (as liars, prostitutes and thieves) to protect.
The GOP today has simply degenerated into a vehicle for unprincipled office seekers. It doesn't even seem to represent any coherent grassroots interests beyond plunder by earmark.. At least the Dems are-if nothing else- the clear champions of the privileges of public sector employees. But really, the differences between the two major parties are mainly rhetorical.
The Netherlands has eight parties in its parliament. Israel has eleven. It is possible to get minor party members elected to office (or at least taken seriously) in the US, but some laws have to be changed.
Instant runoff voting should be instituted for all statewide elections, -including Presidential elections. Proportional Representation should be adopted for at least one house of the state legislature in as many states as possible. The latter would allow parties with say, 5% or 10% of the vote to be represented in the legislature. This kind of system is the norm in the world outside the US, the UK and Canada.
Once a party has actual elected officials people start to take it seriously.
Eighteen states allow for Constitutional amendments to be adopted via the initiative and referendum process:
http://www.iandrinstitute...
Some of those states must have enough disillusioned Republicans(must be a lot of those), Ron Paul supporters and independents who see through the scam of the "two party" system to make it possible to get reforms like those enacted into law.
It can be done.It's just a matter of will, organization and fundraising.
Bump for discussion.
lots of great comments.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
I think we've made a lot of progress.
Especially at the State Level GOP. State Sovereignty? Our idea. Opposing the real ID? Our idea. Constitutional Tender? Our idea. And if Malkin wants to take John Galt public, more power to her. (She's still wrong on torture.)
There are dozens of Ron Paul Republicans and "Campaign for Liberty" people in the State Houses after THIS election cycle. Some open, some not so open. In 2010 we should have more.
Where I see opposition is from the Democrats right now. They are the ones blocking State Sovereignty in lock step now that their man with the magic initial is in power. And while we are causing vocal ruckus's and silent takovers county by county, I see no one on the Dem side doing the same thing right now. I kind of feel let down by the Kucinich / Gravel guys, to be honest. So if a person REALLY feels the GOP has cooties, run as a democrat in the primary and produce a better democrat. But pick one or the other and to be honest the GOP where the liberty movement's has been gaining traction. Often times with the GOP leadership kicking and screaming, but where would they be without us? Obama wasn't expecting the State Houses to take to the ATTACK with Sovereignty in JANUARY. That was us, and still is.
The rank and file American (and I'm not talking about the 1%'ers here) just vote R or D on account of the magic powers and that's it. They never give the alternative a look, and neither will the media. I don't think there's a conspiracy but IF THERE WAS, that's what the people at the top do: they keep themselves in power by getting in and staying Republican or Democrat. So we do the exact same thing at the local level. Pull the rug out from under them while they are busy ice skating.
Life, Liberty, Property
While I personally tend to
While I personally tend to agree with you that having some portion of electors chosen proportionally would be good, that simply won't happen. Why on earth would either of the two leading parties ever vote in favor of that, and thereby relinquish control over political debate?
And full on national PR processes does have a history of resulting in pretty dysfunctional governments. It's not like Israel and Italy are held up as paragons of governmental virtue. The mixed systems in place is some parts of Europe, ad perhaps other places, seem to me a good compromise.
In America, any 'system' would also have to take into consideration states' rights to self determine their electoral processes. You'd think at least some states would experiment with less rigid single member systems, perhaps showing others the way. Unless they are barred from doing so by the feds, that is.
So, two parties it will be. The question is only which two parties. Will it be a reformed GOP vs the Dems, or the Libertarians/Constitutionalists/Jeffersonians/Minarchists/Anarchists vs the Dems. Or perhaps, as long as we're allowed to dream, vs the Naderites or Chomskyites.
But seriously, doesn't the latter scenario seem a bit far fetched? And besides, doesn't it seem slowly shifting the GOP platform away from statism have a better chance than convincing the vast majority of rather politically unconcerned citizens to throw the entire 'system' out the window in one electoral cycle?
Realistic? Depends on what you want.
We aren't going to take the White House within the Republican Party. Not in one electoral cycle or twenty. The CFR, the military-industrial complex, the Bankers, and the mainstream Press will stop us.
Legislative seats are another matter. We can gnaw away at the power structure in increments that way.
But the Congress is not in charge of the system, despite the original intent of the Founders. The tyrants know that as long as they can contrive and maintain constant wars and national emergencies, the real rulers of the nation will be the President, his cronies, and the news media.
I feel we should at least TRY to compete with the Democrats and Republicans for the executive branch throne, if for no other reason than increasing our own numbers by reaching disillusioned voters.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
It depends a bit on what you
It depends a bit on what you mean by taking The White House. Putting Ron Paul himself there is one thing, and likely won't happen regardless of what we do. He most likely won't even run again, and even if he did once more, his age is a huge problem.
Similarly, if anything short of putting someone a virtual political clone of Dr. Paul in The White House is considered failure, you're probably right, as there's really no one of any stature within the GOP just like him. If we have to start completely from scratch anyway, I guess a third party is just as good as an existing one.
But if you accept that reforming government, even the executive branch, in a more gradual fashion, is a valid goal for our movement, I think the GOP route has huge advantages. The Obama administration will almost certainly move the country in a more statist direction, just like Bush did before him. And, barring influence of electorates like us, so will whoever comes after Obama. Simply stopping this slide requires worth vile effort. Actually reversing it would be a huge win, even if we don't immediately abolish all taxes and the Fed.
Say, as an example, our growing numbers before the 2012 primaries manages to swing the GOP nomination in favor on Sanford instead of Romney. (I'm picking them, since they both are viewed as 'economy' candidates. Jindal and Palin seem to be more 'culture' candidates, for what it's worth, and I suspect the economy will remain the big concern for at least another 4 years.)
Although Sanford is no Paul, he would be a big step in the right direction, compared to Romney, Palin and Jindal (at least based on their current records), to say nothing of Obama. His voting record from when he was in congress, shows several instances where he voted alongside Paul, against everybody else. He seems instinctually a small government guy, and he is highly knowledgeable to boot.
As far as I'm concerned, if history comes to recognize the 'R3volution' was a determining factor in putting someone like Sanford in The White House over Obama or Romney; and in doing so within 5-6 years of it's inception, we will have won a huge victory. Not only have we saved the country from a continued and accelerating slide into totalitarianism, but we will have demonstrated our indispensability as a GOP electorate as well. From then on out, as long as we keep growing our numbers, anyone formulating strategy for a GOP candidate will have to take us into account, since we will literally have demonstrated the perils of not doing so, as well as the benefits of including us. Instead of just standing on the sidelines complaining, like the Libertarians and their ilk have been doing unsuccessfully for decades.
GOP = NWO
Forget the GOP, any real change must come from a viable third party.
END the FED before it ENDS US
END the FED before it ENDS US
you make your choice, i will
you make your choice, i will make mine, if you convince yourself to disengage and retreat permanently you are making a big mistake ... wars aren't won that way
Well, here's the truth...
We can nibble away at the edges of the Leviathan, running on one of the two prevailing parties. Go ahead if you want to. We need all the help we can get, in the fight ahead.
However, if you think there's any significant difference at all between the GOP and the Democrats--from the standpoint of preserving or restoring constitutional freedom--you, my friend, are still drinking the Kool-Aid.
In that case I must challenge your self-identification of being 'awake'. If you were awake--you would have looked around last year--not at what's happening in precinct headquarters--but at the GOP base that nominated McCain, and you might have researched the history of the Republican Party from 1951 to the present, and the multiple efforts of grassroots conservatives to "take over" the party.
It happened in four waves--Buckley, Goldwater, Reagan, and Gingrich. Four times, each resulting in no progress, or even greater statism.
I'm going to ignore talking about "the definition of insanity" and go straightaway to "the first step to making progress is admitting that there's a problem".
If you think a few Congressmen--and some reorganization at the party level--are going to stop the dark forces that are allied against us..how 'awake' is that, really?
Have you noticed yet that our Presidents--who were much too powerful even in John Adams' day--are now full-blown emperors, in all but name only?
What's your GOP-based solution to that? How do we take back the White House? Did we take it back last year? Did we even come close?
Dr. Paul, God bless him, actually proved fairly decisively that it cannot be done.
All the fundamentals were in his favor:
Spirited, energetic followers--check;
Good grassroots money base--check;
Good political career resumé--check;
Candidate with no scandals, perceived as ethical--check;
Powerfully principled voting record--check;
Charisma that inspires and rallies the faithful--check;
Opposed the war in Iraq, like the majority of the people--check;
Timely message, after eight years of Bush--check;
Scholarly, well-informed candidate--check;
Roughly the same age as the competing candidate--check.
The competing candidate won the nomination.
The deranged GOP voting base chose him in spades. That voting base has not disappeared. It's still out there, waiting to be rallied behind Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin. The nutballs and lowbrow ignoramuses will rally behind them, not behind someone we want.
We need to find a NEW voter base. One that did NOT vote in last year's Republican and Democratic primaries. And to find them, we must go a new way.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Respectfully, you are mistaken
Ron Paul's efforts as a Republican are paying off but you have to be willing to see them. When an out-of-shape person begins working out, they do not turn into Mr. Olympia after just a few work outs. In the last election cycle we got eight RP Republicans elected to the House...that would have been impossible a few years ago.
Even a leviathan can be brought down if there is enough piranha chewing on him.
RJ Harris
Norman, OK
US Congressional Candidate, OK's 4th Dist.
OK Militia Veteran; Eighteenth Year
OU Law; First Year
Strength and Honor
RJ Harris
Constitutional Libertarian
www.harrisforoklahoma.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/RJ-Harris/128692249103
Look, I respect your efforts to chew on Leviathan.
I'm just saying it isn't enough. We need more.
We've got to hit them harder and we need to attack their flanks. Then those who attack from the rear will be much more effective.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
And if not Palin or Romney, Jindal or Limbaugh - maybe even Beck
As long as they are certain it is one of THEIR tools... It looks to me like they are running several flags up the pole to see which one might fly. We need to stay engaged and let them know we will hound their sorry nominee mercilessly with the truth.
Kevin, so good all the way to the end... but it does not matter who votes or how many of them we get, as long as the NWO controls the elections, too... You last paragraph would be better left at solely the last line:
"We must go a new way."
Individuals are the ultimate sovereign being. The NWO governs by OUR CONSENT.
The key is withdrawing consent. Now if I can figure out which door that key fits into....
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
We have two parties because
We have two parties because it's easier to control America that way. All they need to do is get a handful of their people to filter to the top of both parties, use their media influence and after that it doesn't really matter. One of their guys/gals gets elected on the Republican side or on the Democratic side. Either way they win regardless of which party gains the Presidency.
...
Just look at this
This is why GOP won't make a come back that has anything to do with Ron Paul
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20090308/NEWS/903070979/...
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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GOP will be used to divide Americans. Period.
Local members will WASTE their time and help the division. Unity is the ONLY way we will win. The anti-Obama bullshit being spewed and the injection of Rush will divide us even farther. We all need to walk away from the NWO shell organizations and keep asking questions and block their funds. Simply turn our backs, educate our community and refuse to participate in their game. Truth and peace will attract people.
Simply turn our backs,
Simply turn our backs, educate our community and refuse to participate in their game. Truth and peace will attract people.
Should we all become Amish? Would we have to give up our guns?
You are a tool
and you will be used as such.
Nobody controls the GOP at
Nobody controls the GOP at the most local level but me. How do you like that? Stop worrying about who's president and go take over city council. Better yet, take over as sheriff. They can tell the Fed gov to shove it.
You can only tell the Feds
You can only tell the Feds to "shove it" if you belong to a federally approved protected minority. If you plan to tell the Feds to "shove it" my advice is that you come out as the new Harvey Milk.
Sheriff is a very political position
I used to wear my Ron Paul aprons when I volunteered at events, and our Sheriff sees my apron and tells me, "I like Ron Paul". I lit up, "You Do?" Oh gosh I was so delighted to hear that... And then he says, "Yeah I realy like Ron Paul, but he doesn't have a chance in hell". I'm sure the sheriff knew it was my Ron Paul rEVOLution banner up on Hwy 1 and HWY 20 for over 4 months... I think they left it up for so long because they knew it gave tourists a kick... as if we are part of the bigger picture... but I know, GOP is nothing but a gatekeeper for the Democrats. Allot of people like Ron Paul here. He would have been a BIG hit had he come here during the campaign. Instead, we got the Queen of England (passing out awards).
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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I know! When I find out
I know! When I find out someone loves RP it's so exciting. You then have so much to talk about.
Way to go
Excellent, duff.
Shhh You might wake them up
When Ron Paul said the GOP lost their way, he neglected to identify which direction the GOP had gone, to Fascism, and why he remained.
Had Ron Paul gone Indy, THAT would have been a rEVOLution.
There is no one in office truely willing to lead we the people OUT of this mess... Maybe Ralph Nader, because Ralph Nadr is not global government, but he is against government protecting corporations at the expense of the tax payer AKA consumer. Maybe Jesse Ventura, but I* don't know.
I do know that the GOP is controlled by the Democrats in CA by mutual agreement.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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The Problem With Going Independent
Is that is so damned bloody hard to get in the game that way. The reasons to stick with the GOP are threefold;
1) They are disorganized, and damaged, nearly beyond repair, and;
2) They have access to the voter precinct lists, and;
3) Because of the preceding, they are our best opportunity.
This is war, folks, we need to grit our teeth and become insurgents, waging a guerilla war from the inside. Do you want another 20 years of Obama? Them make peace with the fact that we are going to have to clean out the Augean Stables of the Republican Party do do anything about it.
The Liberty Guys
Promoting Liberty, Peace, and Free Enterprise
www.libertyguys.org
www.campaignforliberty.com
The Liberty Guys
Promoting Liberty, Peace, and Free Enterprise
www.libertyguys.org
www.campaignforliberty.com
THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX
A rEVOLution would be for Americans to register "Decline to State Party" AKA Independent, and refuse to sponcer any party campaign. Only sponcer independents, not parties (collectives), and make them work for us.
GOP has fewer registered here than Indys already, and that is because it is controlled by the Democrats... GOP has no power. Arnold is a RINO.
There are 36 registered parties. Normally an election has over a hundred presidential candidates, many are write in votes no one ever heard of because MSM ain't going there.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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Not to rain on your parade, or anything
but if they aren't going to let us gain control of the Party, then they aren't going to pass legislation which will easily allow a 3rd Party to gain power either.
Just pointing out a little reality.
We have to go at this "head on" and fight it, regardless of the type of Party that we choose.
There's no avoiding the corruption. We simply have to beat it, or else we have no political alternatives.
You don't "avoid" the corruption by using a 3rd Party. You just change how the corruption will be implemented.
bypass your legislature and governor
Eighteen states allow for constitutional amendment via initiative and referendum. This allows the citizenry to bypass the legislature and the
governor. Of course they'll use every dirty trick in or out of the book to stop you. Did you really expect anything else?
http://www.iandrinstitute.org/statewide_i%26r.htm
Geert Wilders is hated by the bureaucrats who run the EUSSR. He is under indictment for hate crimes in the Netherlands. He was denied entry to Britain by the Labour govt. He is now leader of the most popular partyin the Netherlands.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/party_for_freedom_leads...
Wilders was at CPAC as well,
Wilders was at CPAC as well, screening his latest film. He had more more security around him than any of the GOP 'stars', so I guess he's pissed off somebody!
The screening and following Q&A ran concurrently with the Campaign for Liberty gathering, on the opposite side of the elevator shaft. At first I took the wrong turn, and was about to casually open the conference room door and stroll in, fashionably late as usual, when I was grabbed and rather firmly reminded that this was a no go zone without prior clearance and invitation.
Hey, that's pretty cool!
Now, how do you plan to get enough people to vote for anything like that, when 98% of them know absolutely nothing about anything, and all they do is pull the lever for "their Party", either the GOP or the Dems?
That's the real question, isn't it?
The reason to take over a major Party, is because the people AREN'T INTERESTED in being "educated". They pull the lever by habit, not by knowing about policies.
Gain control of a Party, get all the 'brain dead lever-pullers" along with it.
In my area
The GOP is les then the Indepentent vote. For 30 years the GOP has registered less than 23%.
I worked VERY HARD, almost desperately to get Ron Paul going here, and while many people here told me they liked Ron Paul, Ron Paul wouldn't dare come near here because the GOP has an agreement with the Democrats who they serve. WHO THEY SERVE.
If you think you can take the GOP and make it more than a third party here, then maybe you can get CA back, because Arnold, and many GOP in POWERFUL position took your party a long time ago for the Democrats.
MSM uses the GOP as a "whipping post" because the GOP is doomed and a new party is going to replace it, and that party is going tp be created by the NWO by of and for the NWO, and that is where we are heading.
GOP is a ship of fools. Ron Paul is right, they have lost their way. So what sense does it make that he's still with them? "They've lost their way, but, what the hell?"
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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We lose at "fundraising" when THEY have printing presses
A political victory requires:
1. Candidates that inspire followers. When RP dropped out, we splintered, seeking another "perfect" candidate. "Perfect" being the natural enemy of "good enough" as usual.
2. The ability to get the person's name into the public psyche - basically, media. They won every major outlet. At the very local level, you can overcome this with door to door. Unless we have some way to get door to door over an entire county, state, or nation, we will never get above a County office.
3. An alternative to fundraising. We can never raise more than they can print. And, while we try, we circulate FRNs, ensuring their stranglehold on power.
We must HOLD our positions, fight for more, but NOT PUT OUR HOPES IN POLITICS. The Rothschild-Rockefeller cartel OWNS the political process, lock, stock and barrell. Want a peaceful revolution? STOP circulating FRNs. IF WE ALL (those are the words that doom us) stopped spending money, en masse, for even one day, we would see real change. So, sine "WE ALL" are NOT going to act in concert, we must figure out what "me, alone" can do. There is an excellent thread on that at the moment.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.