silver has more value than gold.
When Paper Can’t Control Prices
By Israel Friedman
(Israel Friedman is a friend and mentor to Theodore Butler. He has followed silver for many decades. He has written articles for us in the past. Investment Rarities does not necessarily endorse these views.)
A big wrongdoing crime is done daily by the institutions or individuals who are naked shorting stocks or futures contracts. If you are someone who sells what doesn’t belong to you, you would be in trouble with the law, but the naked sellers of securities do so without punishment. For instance, if you are shorting stocks, you get money up front from the sale. The only way these short sellers are forced to cover in stocks is when the company is taken over. In the futures market, it happens when the longs demand actual delivery. This scenario in futures can only happen only when a shortage hits the market.
In silver, two US banks have a short position of 154 million ounces of silver. Based upon my calculation they are capping the price by holding the major part of the short side of COMEX futures. I ask - do these big shorts know their risks in shorting silver? We learned from the past that the banks know only how to calculate near term profits and bonuses. But they always miscalculate risk, like in mortgage derivatives. Don’t look at me as crazy when I tell you that I think the exposure of the shorts will be $250 billion, with the two US banks holding a risk of $75 billion.
How do I calculate this exposure? This calculation is based upon $500 price for silver, and I say that the price of silver will not be less than the price of gold. I hope gold will be much higher than $500, as the price of silver will reflect that.
Silver world stocks are in very strong hands, spread among 250,000 to 350,00 small investors holding approx 500 to 600 million oz, in coins and bullion, averaging 2000 to 3000 oz per investor. These investors, who are mostly in the US, know why they are holding silver. I think you and I will benefit from your holdings of silver and those who have shorted silver will pay big.
Mr. Butler is fighting weekly to end the manipulation but isn’t successful yet. The shortage in silver will teach those who harmed the silver mining industry by holding the price down and discouraging exploration that their actions will add fuel to the fire.
In a shortage situation, when silver prices will advance by $3 to $5 daily, the shorts will accuse us of influencing investors to buy silver and causing a shortage. They will call us hoarders and other names. It will be very ironic that the shorts will try to blame the longs for buying what was so cheap. Then, it will be our turn to laugh at them. Trading on the COMEX is a sure path for losses. You are much better to take the margin money and just buy Eagles. One day you will be rewarded tremendously.
The dream of the gold investor is to have a gold standard, but I tell you before we have a gold standard, we will have a silver standard. That will come when people all over the world recognize that based upon rarity and supply/demand, silver has more value than gold.
read the rest of the article here
http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1237839396.php
-- Posted 23 March, 2009 | Digg This Article | Discuss
Sorry, SIERRA this headline is incorrect.
The historical ratio of silver to gold is out of whack. Silver is not more valuable than gold, however it does have more upside potential percentage-wise due to the imbalance of the ratio.
$500 silver is a real possibility. I agree with the author.
FYI -- I paid $A27/oz for junk silver this week and was happy to do so. The price of gold and silver in other currencies has been quite amazing ($A1,500/oz for gold). You will get there (and beyond) soon enough.
If you want to know what people are paying for gold and silver, have a look here: http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_silver_coins.aspx?co...
*****
This space is for rent.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Lisa... I think you will be
Lisa... I think you will be surprised.. read what friedman says above again and think about what he is saying.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
just where in the hell have
just where in the hell have you been little lady!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
FYI
I don't think that $500 silver is realistic, but I do expect to see $35-50 in the next couple of years based only on the current global currency reflation policies. Anyway, I just took a leap of faith last week and bought two 100oz. bars of silver from these guys at The Anonymous American for $1.35 over spot, and I received them four days after I made the wire transfer. They also have some very interesting blog and news articles.
http://theanonymousamerican.com/
you have not studied
you have not studied enough.... study some more.. you will change your mind.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Want to trade?
I'll trade my 1 oz. silver Eagles for your 1 oz. gold Eagles. Any takers? This is a silly headline.
what does schiff say about
what does schiff say about the price of the dow and the price of gold being the same? the point is at what price do they cross or meet up?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
you do not understand what
you do not understand what he is saying... dollar value may not be the same now.. but in the future?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
sierra,
as the self-proclaimed oracle on PMs ( precious metals, for those who are not part of the 'in' crowd ),
it's time for you to sh*t, or get off the pot !
Tell us - NOW - what gold, and silver, are going to be worth (in worthless FRNs), on 01 July 09.
If you don't KNOW, repeat after me,
.
.
.
.
" I DON"T KNOW ... NOBODY KNOWS !
So don't stake your life on any of the 'information' that I have been posting for the last 2 years ! "
If you are staking your life on any forum posts, get a grip
Sierra brings information, responsible adults must decide what to do with it.
How about you tell me what an FRN will be worth come July?
There has never been a claim of "oracle" made, why do you get so personal about this? If you don't like his advice, don't buy silver.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
paul4won,
you make my point.
Sierra constantly throws these "copy and paste" articles about how silver is going to "go to the moon ", and then tries to enhance his point by referring to anyone who doesn't buy into what he is posting as "an idiot, a moron, or stupid ".
Responsible adults will take all of his 'informed' advice with a large grain of salt !
where on this post have I
where on this post have I called anyone those names... I only use those names for keynsians and trolls and you are just about there. grow up vlbc.. by the way change back to your old name. what do you have 3 or 4 screen names on the daily paul??
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
can you document this accusation?
I have re-read all of sierra's replies to this thread, and there is not one word insulting anyone. You are the one that I observe making this a personal assault against him.
Why even comment on this thread if you are not interested in the articles he brings? You appear to be trying to get a flame war going to me.
Ya' been called out, now give it a rest.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Here's an excerpt from sierra's past posts
how will that happen when
On May 7th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:
how will that happen when the dollar collapses? the dollar collapse will be because of the derivatives market? don't take everything that robert prechter says as gospel.. the depression this time around will be different then the one in the 30's.. we will have some assets going down- housing- and some sky rocketing.. gold and silver...oil.. there are way to many more powers at play today then in 1930.. With Oil.. what happens to the price of oil when the US bombs Iran?? you don't think you will see 200.00 to 300.00 dollar per barrel oil? your crazy! opec is producing at max right now.. opec has lied about the oil reserves they have.. they have less then stated.. china, india are starting to have HUGE middle classes who are just now starting to buy cars etc.. and you think the price of oil is going to go down? same with gold! 600.00? maybe with huge manipulation.. but it will skyrocket again... I will listen to Jim Sinclaire before I listen to anyone else on Gold.. before you see 600.00 i bet you see 1650.00! some of you guys arguments don't make sense.. then again maybe i'm the moron!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
the other thing I want to
On June 20th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:
the other thing I want to adress is this.. what is wrong with someone buying oil futures.. are we not a capitalistic society and have a free economic type system where a person can risk his money to bet on the future price of a commodity? in my opinion it is wrong to ridicule traders who are trying to make money in hard times... the word "speculator" is a word that is parroted from the mainstream media to focus blame away from the federal reserve and the Federal government, who deserves ALL THE BLAME for the rising costs in fuel and food! it is economic policies by the fed that has put us where we are... NOT speculation! so because people see the bad policy at the fed, then knowing because of the devaluation of the dollar and the price of oil will go up,they jump into futures knowing the result of a policy and people here on daily paul are going to ridicule those folks and say it is there fault for the price of oil to go up??
I don't think so! with ALL the crap that we Ron PAUL SUPPORTERS HAVE PUT UP WITH , WITH THE LAME STREAM MEDIA.. I CANNOT BELEIVE THAT YOU TAKE EVERYTHING FROM CNBC AS GOSPEL! Specualtion is a very small problem with the high price of oil! the mass printing of money out of thin air is atleast 80% of the reason why we have oil going up!
then the next problem we have is.. 3 billion people in India and China.. now jz you say those people are backwards peasants. but 30,000 people a day attain middleclass status there.. thats 30,000 people needing oil for cars, electricity, goods and services etc.. spin it how you want but these are facts!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
as long as the dollar
On June 19th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:
as long as the dollar devalues against other currencies and weakens oil will not go down... the price of oil has not risen since 1947... in 1947 one 90% silver quarter bought slightly more then 1 gallongof gas.. .23 cents to be exact.. in 2008 1 us pre 64 90% silver quarter still buys more then 1 gallon of gas.. gas at 4.00 here a 90% silver quarter worth 4.55.... its the federal reserve and the friggin us government who is to blame! until the dollar strengthens (and it won't) oil will go up. the fed cannot lower rates or raise rates.. they are cought.. raise rates and you force a DEPRESSION... lower rates and dollar devalues, confidence( what remains) leavs the dollar and we have hyperinflation leading to depression... I do not understand why some folks can't get this figured out... WERE DOOMED FOLKS! THE PRICE OF OIL IS A SIDE BAR IN THIS WHOLE ECONOMIC DEBATE!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the
LORD
On August 29th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:
I have not been wrong on oil! its at 117.00 per barrel! JZ said it was going to head south from 120! wow a whole 3 dollars off in what 4 months? all those tankers floating around with all that oil and no place to go? then why if all this oil is sitting, why is the price not significantly going down when a hurricane is shutting down production in the gulf? seems to me there must not be to many oil tankers floating around! what your not seeing is this crap with the dollar strengthening/ gold, silver coming down, and all this so called governement fed facts on the economy going to miss a recession is pure election time BS.! just wait till after the election! could oil come down? yep! I think it will to give the allusion of a stronger economy to help MCcain.. it will all be temporary!
On October 8th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:
you will see 20.00 easily by thanksgiving! by February... double that!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark
Twain
I really am amused that I
I really am amused that I have gotten under your skin so bad that you have to feel you must look these up or save them.. that is funny.. dude you need to grow up!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Please note
SIERRAHPBT had no problem defending the banks and brokerage firms bidding up the price of oil in the futures markets, but if the same players short his scared cow, silver, he cries manipulation! You can't have it both ways sierra.
that is bold faced lie..
that is bold faced lie.. banks and brokerage firms did not do that.. the price was rigged by the producers.. please go see what lindsey williams said.. he hit it right on ... the dollar was also falling to its lwest point.. that is what caused the price increase... nice try jeffry..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
An error is not a lie
Calling someone a liar when they are mistaken (in your opinion) is a great way to start a flame war.
You might want to learn the difference between an error and a lie. Here's a hint: A lie is when you say something you know to be false.
If you believe something is true, you cannot lie about it. You can only be mistaken.
So do you still think he is a liar? Maybe he is just interpreting the information different than you?
Just trying to keep things civilized...
paul4won,
you are absolutely right
about this one single thread !
But this is about the 100th thread by sierra about silver.
And that is what I am commenting about.
And ... correct me if I am wrong, but do I not have the right to express my opinion ?
vlbc, If you don't like
vlbc,
If you don't like the article and can't find anything wrong with what he guy says why do you even take the time to comment.. you do n ot attack the author you attack me.. don't like the silver articles don't read them its very simple..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
vlbc..... take the time to
vlbc..... take the time to study the market for silver.. I mean really study.. don't just read a few articles and then make an ignorant uniformed hypothosis about silver.. go here.... www.butlerresearch.com
read every single article butler has written since 2000... after reading that and getting an education you will see things differently.. the time you take to educate yourself will make you wealthy if you act and do this.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Bulter is a broken record
Sierra, why don't you study the PM market a bit more.
1.Blanchard Coin and Bullion's anti-trust lawsuit against Barrick Gold and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., which was filed in U.S. District Court in New Orleans in 2002. Blanchard lost. Why? Because Barrick was selling gold forward to JP Morgan and JP Morgan was hedging their forward position.
2.Howe vs. Bank for International Settlements et al. -- which was pursued in U.S. District Court in Boston from 2000 to 2002. The suit was dismissed as well.
3.And Bill Murphy of www.lemetropolecafe.com. has been claiming gold is being manipulated since the 90's.
Ted Butler has only picked up the ball with silver where Murphy left off with gold. And just because the COT reports show 2 banks with concentrated short positions, does not mean they are naked shorting the COMEX Silver. Those banks could be hedging anything from a forward contract to some exotic derivatives position. Just like a broken clock is right twice a day, butler may be right about silver moving upward, but not for the reasons he and Freidman claim.
Silver is an industrial metal first and a precious metal second. The best thing that could happen for silver is for the economy to rebound. That would surely spike the price of silver. Conversely if another industrial application where found for silver it would surely rally as well. A dollar currency collapse would not help silver as much as you think Sierra.
In fact, a complete dollar collapse would most likely put the entire world into a deep depression with a communist government filling the void. And you have the nerve to claim other people have an ignorant uniformed hypothesis about silver. Please put down the shovel.
Blanchard did not lose the case it was settled out of court
And in the court documents in a 'motion to dismiss' barrick all but said they were in cahoots with jpmorgan and tried to use soveignty ruling saying they couldn't be sued because they were agents of jpm and gov but that didn't work and they settled out of court.
By the way the Howe suit was dismissed , agreed, but for bs reasons.
Do you agree with these court decisions and if so why? Do you like the price suppression of precious metals, why?
Ted Butler has only picked
Ted Butler has only picked up the ball with silver where Murphy left off with gold. And just because the COT reports show 2 banks with concentrated short positions
once again you are wrong.. why are you trying to mislead people on this thread? Hunts were taken down for only having a 10% concentration in 1979-80..... why are the cftc looking the other way when these 2 or 1 large banks are way over a 50% concentration? do you even know how to read the cot's? what about the banking reports? secondly.. silver was money long before it became an industirial metal. it became only an industrial metal in the last 60 years.. Butler has been spot on on everything.. you are just to ignorant because of your job and your keynsian upbringing to be able to understand. a dollar collape will send silver up huge,, in purchasing power but that is something else you do not understand.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
The Hunts
The Hunts acted solely for their own accounts. Banks have customers Sierra. Don't let percentages fool you. One bank could have a 50% position if it were representing enough customers and still not violate any rules.
Price and value are relative. Any hard asset would increase in value within a currency that collapsed or was even devalued. But that does not mean it would increase in value against another more important asset like food, medicine or energy. Supply and demand would dictate those values. Purchasing power is dictated by the market not a collapsed currency.
Close to 90% of the silver market is industrial. It really doesn't matter if that happened 60 years ago or 6 years ago. It is what it is. Don't get me wrong, I like silver long term, however I'll never buy into silver being more valuable then gold based on a COT report interpretation. Find a new industrial application, especially to cure cancer or fight diabetes and I may change my mind.
keep talking jeffry.. the
keep talking jeffry.. the more you spout off the more you show your ignorance... the dollar will collapse.. it has to.. if you can not see that your blind.. go read some more books about mccain or palin.. we know what color your stripes are.. also why is it the only time you comment on this site is on a silver or gold thread? who is paying you jeffrey? or what bank do you work for?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
I Only comment on your BS posts bro
And I will continue to do it for free as long as you post crap.
loook dimwit i'm not your
loook dimwit i'm not your bro... prove butler wrong.. that is something you can not do.. you never have.. and ofcourse you never will. this is a subject that is way over your head.. you can contact me through my email.. I would love to carry on this conversation in private.. I would love to know who you are and what you do.. quit hidding behind your keyboard bro.. what are you scared of?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
SIERRAHPBT prove Butler wrong..? Butler can't prove Butler right
SIERRAHPBT prove Butler wrong..? Butler can't prove Butler right.
You are a cornucopia of contradiction Sierra. You defended oil futures speculators, but cry manipulation if silver is shorted. Its the same thing
Sierra. Get it through your hollow point head.
I do not know if you rode the short bus to school or not Sierra, but I can tell you that the people on this board are far too intelligent to buy into your latest conspiracy theory, no matter how many times you repeat it. In fact I am confident that I am on solid ground when I say you are a conspiracy theory junkie.
Your M.O. is to post your conspiracy theory du jour, or resurrect an old one, then call everyone who does not agree with you names , then claim victory.
Here's a little secret for you, you have never won anything. Most reasonable people either give up on you, or you never accept their challenges. Instead you ignore them, then claim victory again. Its a tiresome game to play with you because I firmly believe that your head, not a diamond, is the hardest substance known to man.
Now back on message, Butler does not prove anything with his interpretation of the COT reports. If you are so confident Butler is correct, why don't you sponsor a lawsuit and prove the banks are naked shorting? Or are you scared you'll be wrong? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and stop hiding behind your keyboard?
Are you afraid to prove Butler is right? So what are you tough guy, a hero or a zero?
sierra,
I challenged you to answer a question.
Apparently, you don't feel comfortable trying to answer it !