What we're up against
My friend Bob Dwyer, a fellow patriot from here in Massachusetts sent this article to me. Bob is one of the hardest working Patriots in the area - he was an alternate delegate to the RNC last summer, and helped organize the Boston Tea Parties in Fanueil Hall in both 2007 & 2008.
The article is from the Boston Phoenix, which is one of those free weekly tabloid rags that every big city seems to have, read mostly by young people. In this town, that means students at some of the nation's most elite institutions: Harvard, MIT, Boston University, Boston College, to name a few. There are more than 200 colleges in the area. This will give you a good idea of the mindset we're up against:
Republicans all over the country find themselves backed into an ideological and political corner: their dogma has brought the country, and their party, to ruin. The candidate they called an evil, terrorist-loving, foreign-born socialist is in office and widely popular, while they and their beliefs are reduced to irrelevant minority status....
As Rush Limbaugh has made clear, their path lies in seeking the failure of President Barack Obama and the Democratically controlled Congress — in predicting, and seeking, the massive and catastrophic collapse of America. Only that result can prove them right....
McKinley is among hundreds of Republican lawmakers, all over the country, who are backing resolutions of "state sovereignty" — essentially empty gestures toward declaring the illegitimacy of the federal government. Of the many manifestations of conservative anti-government hostility, none is more striking than this sudden, nationwide movement: barely 50 days into Obama's administration, lawmakers in more than two dozen states have introduced these sovereignty declarations. Some appear headed for passage; others have prompted raucous demonstrations and public hearings.
Based on a thoroughly rejected reading of the 10th Amendment — which states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people" — the resolutions claim the federal government, in usurping powers and issuing mandates to the states, is in violation of the US Constitution. They call for Congress and the president to cease and desist in those (mostly unspecified) violations.
Read it so you can understand what they're thinking, and how best to diffuse their arguments.
Thanks Bob.
Looks like NG are going to the border
Appears we are about to see a war on drugs heat up at the border in CA http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/03/24/1863090.aspx I selected this story becaue it is one of the few that has any word from Arnold Schwartzenegger, who is all for troops at the border.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
It's very easy to lie and smear
That's what we're up against. We're up against people who do not have political ideals, just their indoctrination that makes them feel safe. Hearing that we are crazy makes them think they are not for believing the same crap they've heard for their whole lives. This one-sided, false facts-laced, piece of trash is what we've been up against this whole time. It's what's kept those Obamaphiles in the dark. The truth will come out, one way or another... and it may hurt but it'll come out and those of reason will have their day in the sun.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freeist
Check out my Freedom Blog! http://www.freeist.wordpress.com
Expose the lie.
Never allow the debate to move past the lie. There's a biggie in the initial paragraph. How did "their dogma" bring the country to ruin? What ideologies relegated them to irrelevncy? Force them to define these accusations, and do not let them to beg the question. If debating someone such as this writer (a sophist), do not let them past the lie, which serves as a premis for all which follows.
Vote for Liberty...Buy Silver Eagles.
Comment on the Article on their site!
Take em down!
This seems to pick up where
This seems to pick up where the MIAC report left off, showing what this ideological group is really thinking. We have tough times ahead.
I live on the edge of Boston. This area is lost beyond any recovery. I don't willingly discuss politics with my Boston friends. My girlfriend is a self-described socialist (although she's not really a socialist at all). This is hostile territory. It's like the Vatican for the Church of the State.
When the jackboots arrive and demand your liberty and your life, Boston will unanimously call out "YES!! Me first! Me first!".
When life gives you lemmings....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SRIjpCcBMGI/AAAAAAAAWy...
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
snicker
Nice one, Belle.
--------------------------------
"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
----------------------------
Also Remember this supreme court decision
Most recently, the Commerce Clause was cited in the 2005 decision Gonzales v. Raich. In this case, a California woman sued the Drug Enforcement Administration after her medical marijuana crop was seized and destroyed by Federal agents. Medical marijuana was explicitly made legal under California state law by Proposition 215; however, marijuana is prohibited at the federal level by the Controlled Substances Act. Even though the woman grew the marijuana strictly for her own consumption and never sold any, the Supreme Court stated that growing one's own marijuana affects the interstate market of marijuana, citing the Wickard v. Filburn decision. The theory was that the marijuana could enter the stream of interstate commerce, even if it clearly wasn't grown for that purpose and it was unlikely ever to happen. It therefore ruled that this practice may be regulated by the federal government under the authority of the Commerce Clause
Tortured logic.
According to this decision, any and all property is subject to Federal regulation simply based upon it's potential to be transported.
.........................................................................................................
“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
-Sam Adams
Vote for Liberty...Buy Silver Eagles.
I agree
The willingness to accept such logic is what we are up against
Clarence Thomas' dissent:
"If the Federal Government can regulate growing a half-dozen cannabis plants for personal consumption (not because it is interstate commerce, but because it is inextricably bound up with interstate commerce), then Congress' Article I powers -- as expanded by the Necessary and Proper Clause -- have no meaningful limits. Whether Congress aims at the possession of drugs, guns, or any number of other items, it may continue to "appropria[te] state police powers under the guise of regulating commerce."
"If the majority [of the court] is to be taken seriously, the Federal Government may now regulate quilting bees, clothes drives, and potluck suppers throughout the 50 States. This makes a mockery of Madison's assurance to the people of New York that the "powers delegated" to the Federal Government are "few and defined", while those of the States are "numerous and indefinite."
Very interesting
Problem is, I believe there are many people who think like this. They find a few sources they "respect", and then act outraged - Can you believe how they interpret the constitution. Notice there is not one argument why the 10th is interpreted differently than is mentioned. Nor is there any arguments about why reuqired service for HS students is involuntary servitude. Just the "OMG do you believe how dumb they are" smear.
I suggest people re-read this several times
I agree with you Michael, that people should read this to get their talking points.
The first thing I got from the article in the Boston Pheniox is they get their "marching orders" from the ADL, BECAUSE, of the recent information posted here ( and remembering how Ron Paul was accused of being a racist early in the election, when the "Ron Paul Newsletter" was released, after he had left his congressional office the first time and returned to private practice. Those of us who like Ron Paul found that really easy to defend Ron Paul, who stood up for himself, but those who did not like Ron Paul dropped that ball on purpose, so it is still alive in the heads of those who forgot all about Ron Paul and don't care about economics, and mostely, those who HATE the Republicans for not moving to impeach Bush. Why no tea party?
And I believe that the NAU happened, but not the way Corsi exposed, least we forget, while people here scream about 911 Truth being conspiracy theory, the Democrats have said the NAU/NWO is conspiracy theory all along and the Neo-cons agree with the Democrats.
Myself, living in CA, where marijuana is legal, and the state is talking about legalization that will tax the grower and the user, and promises to lift CA out of debt, grants are everywhere, the first lady is planting an organic garden while Ron Paul supporters are saying the Congress is writing bills against organic foods...
And I want to say this, Bush hatred was so passionate, I think many people thought he would be assassinated (and many wished he was), they prayed the right wing would rise up and STOP Bush's slide down the socialist slippery slope himself with HIS Patriot Act, and going to the UN on his knees begging them for a collective of the armed willing to go into the sovreign nation of Iraq and dispose of their elected leader, Hussian.. Where was the sovereign state stand then? Some state's sovreignity is more powerful than Iraq's national sovreignity?
After what Bush did to the USA, saying "The constitution is a god damned piece of paper". To many Democrats, it is the Repubicans who destroyed the USA, and it is Obama TRYING to make the USA free again, and instead of helping America free themselves of the Bush horror, the sovreign groups are only making it harder, as they proove a need to unarmed Americans, dependending on Obama for freedom and protection... doesn't matter if you don't agree, their collective is WAY bigger than yours, and as a collective, they are coming after you if you are not helping Obama..
Meanwhile, Ron Paul hasn't said a thing. I hope when as if he does say something it's more than, "This is silly". It's not silly. Ron Paul supporters are being set up with articles like this to be attacked for their beliefs, that are being taken away from Ron Paul and twisted by those who take their marching orders from the ADL.
The ADL attacked Ralph Nader during the 2004 election. Ralph Nader's response included signatures from 161 rabbies in Israel. The ADL hsn't touched Ralpg Nader since. I hope Ron Paul is collecting signatures or doing something, because Obama is my president, I did not vote for him. I did not support his campaign. But I am an American FIRST, not a Republican or a Libertarian or an Indy. I like to take my leads on issues from Ron Paul and Ralph Nader, both are men of integrity and I feel, between the two, I have balance and can make my own choices. Ron Paul needs to step up and say something.
Looks to me, MSM, Glen Beck (Mayher and Oberlin) are setting Ron Paul supporters up to be taken down.. You see Democrats really wanted Ron Pauls to take Bush down... he didn't dare.. so what good was he to them? EIGHT years of stolen election and Clinton's fault?
And me, a Naderite who "turned cheek" for Ron paul, who delevered me back to Nader (boy did I get washed this election, turning down a job with Nader to support Ron Paul is an area that GOP has fewer registrations than Indys...)? Democrats LOATHE Nader far more than GOP. GOP thinks Nader is a socialist joke, but he's far from it.. Ron Paul is going to have as much a chance as Ralph Nader. Ralph Nader stood up to the ADL. I hope Ron Paul says something soon because Bush said, "We are over there to keep the conflict over there".. Obama has US troops and appears willing to "bring it home".
I don't want that.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
Granger, from your previous posts,
I know you're a good man. But you're doing the same thing as Bernstein in this article. You point to the influence of one radical element and blame it for the views of the majority. Yes there are self-serving interest groups on both sides. And groupies galore who haven't a clue but just ride the winds of popular trends -- on both sides.
but as you know Ron Paul has consistently stood for individual liberty and state's rights for decades. He attracted a big following during the Bush Administration -- before Obama was a national figure. Paul's influence snowballed because of his ideas and principles, nothing to do with Republican or Democrat control. Rather his support has grown despite both Dems & Republicans.
Yes, too bad he was marginalized by people like Bernstein and didn't get a following early enough to impeach Bush. But Paul's been fighting huge battles -- to end wars of empire, end federal robbery of the people -- and has always known it wasn't an issue of who's the president but rather the system.
But who are the left to say we liberty supporters didn't indict Bush? Where were their tea parties, their mass demonstrations against the war, their investigation of the Fed and inflation; how many elected Democrats backed impeachment? Most of all, why are they so blinded by party loyalty to see, just like the Republicans under Bush, it's the system, not the elected figurehead?
me gort
The Democrats were told by the elected Democrats that they did not have the support from the GOP to impeach Bush. They blamed the GOP and this blaing is their fuel. You know that. I blame media. I think MSM shows people what it wants to show. None the less, before there was Daily Paul, there were plenty of bloggs, like Slate, with Dems and Cons and the Cons never joined the Dems in wanting Bush impeached. So this is why the states issue now that Obama is in office, is something Obama's administration is letting us know... it's not going to be tolerated and they don't a crap how anyone feels about it. And I think you are a good man, and I fear many good people will be targets for people who fear for Obama's life, and they believe he is trying to save the country after what Buish did. I can't wait to see what Ron paul is going to say at that rally this weekend.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
Apparently,
the authors of the article, being the collectivist/socialists that they are, confuse being "widely popular" with being "correct".
This is the standard "M.O" of the left, and they do it all the time.
They use terms which they can identify with, such as "widely popular", "most people", "most scientists", "the vast majority", etc, etc, in an attempt to use contrived(and often fabricated) peer pressure as a lever to support their groundless and ill-founded policy making.
It is a diversion tactic.
They change the discussion to remove the focus from the policies, and re-focus the attention on "popularity" or "emotion".
It's "standard operating procedure" for the left, in virtually every argument they apply. They know that they cannot withstand scrutiny of their polices, so they divert attention away from them.
The only way to counter this is to not allow the argument to be swerved by them in these ways, and continue to direct the discussion back to the policies, and hold them to the facts and the subject matter.
And they lie a lot, and use their own lies as some kind of "proof" that what they are saying is "fact", when in most cases they have fabricated their statement from thin air, and hope you can't counter it with anything.
Anyone who's ever debated a Democrat should be well-aware of these tactics, because they are used over and over again. You must understand what they do, before you engage in any argument with them.
Learn these tactics, and learn to immediately recognize when they are being used. Then, push the argument back to the facts, and do not get swerved into an emotional or contrived argument with them. They do this because their positions are unsupportable, and they know it. If you push them into a corner on their positions, you will win, because they cannot defend their positions by facts, and only by emotion.
As a Naderite
I've debated Democrats for years and to me they are the pots to the GOP kettles, the mirror to the GOP smoke, the ponies to the GOP doggie show, right, left, right left, together marching US into a NWO...
Who will be the leader of the NWO? Obama or Putin?
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")
True, they are.
However, I didn't argue for the GOP.
What I did was present the actual and factual methods that the left uses in their arguments, as aptly demonstrated in the article that is the subject of discussion in this thread.
And whether we like it or not, we need to be able to sway the discussions into a factual arena in order for our arguments to be successful.
Regarding Nader,
Nader is responsible for:
* Government mandated seat belts.
* The Safe Drinking Water Act
* Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
* Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
* The Consumer Product Safety Commission
Nader thinks gov't control is the answer.
He's a statist activist.
Something to notice from the article...
[speaking of the 1994 conservative opposition to Clinton]
"The state-sovereignty movement of that time was part of a fabric of anti-government sentiment that also included a rise in the "militia" movement — and the resolutions abruptly ceased in 1995, after Timothy McVeigh blew a hole in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people."
There are those who think that event was staged, a false flag...
They're making it partisan
What's the best way to break people from their tribalism programming? I find it's difficult to stop people from thinking in groups in our own movement because they think one group or another is the "root" of the problem (zionists, catholic church, jesuits, rothschilds, freemasons etc.). I wish people had a more open mind, but changing their programming is difficult when they get propaganda 24-7 from TV, radio and newspapers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currency
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currenc
Yes, good read and let's bombard this bozo
at "The Phoenix" with some facts! For example, he states Ron Paul denounced the "conspiracy" about the North American Union. Hello??? Uh, when did that happen???? Ron Paul has stated very clearly that the NAU is in fact real and I don't recall his ever having renounced that! Did I miss something?
Come on, folks. Please help us poor slobs here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts!!! We're surrounded and this dope at The Phoenix deserves to have some real facts to chew on!!!
good read
peace patriot*)
"(Better) to be confused in the search for truth than fully confident and sound asleep in a dream of lies." ~ Michael Nystrom
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul