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Some awesome energy saving/production ideas

Submitted by Forge on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 14:40
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In honor of the HHO proponents that frequent these boards, I thought I'd make a list of some other great ways we can save energy and/or overcome the scientific/technological control that the oil companies have over the energy industry.

Electricity Generation
Purchase a DC motor as well as a DC generator. Plug the DC motor into your homes electrical system. Set up the DC generator to supply electricity into your homes electrical system. Drive the generator with the motor. Every hour, walk past the setup and utter the phrase "Brown's gas". Your generator will make more electricity than your motor requires to turn it.

Improved Transportation Efficiency
This one is a little pricey, but, well worth it. Purchase a gasoline electric hybrid car. Purchase a large number of small wind turbines. Mount the wind turbines all over your car such that they are facing into the wind when you are going down the road. Wire the turbines electrical connection into the battery system of the car. You'll never burn any gas... EVER!

Electricity Generation, Part II
This is doable if you've got some carpentry skill. Create a large waterwheel and hook it up to a DC generator. Get an electric pump and hook it up to the output of the generator. Set the suction and discharge of the lines such that the pump pulls water from a collector at the bottom of the wheel and pumps it up to the top. Fill the lines with water and turn on the pump. You'll have to "kick start" the wheel, but, once you do, you'll get more electricity out of the DC generator than the pump requires to recirculate the water. Use the excess juice to do whatever.

Author's Note:
All of the above is absolute hogwash. This thread is intended to be educational and show why HHO generators cannot improve engine efficiency for the reasons that are claimed. If HHO generators worked as advertised, all of the above scenarios would work too. Sadly, none of them do.

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LOL, ya we all know that some of this stuff is crazy,

Submitted by hopefulfilled on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:29.

but we are not on the grid and get our power by solar panels, and just put up a small wind generator. Don't yet know how efficient the wind generator is, but it sure will make me hate the wind here less, I would imagine. Also, we don't even know when the nearby towns are out of power from a storm.

I've got one that will really work ...

Submitted by obscure titles on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:17.

Build a space elevator to the moon and anchor it to the moon.

Attach a wheel at the other end that is touching the earth.

Attach a generator to the wheel.

All the power you need.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

—

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

As long as we're going

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:28.

extra planetary, lets just build a heat exchanger in the outer layer of the sun. Put a steam turbine back here on earth. : )

Mine wouldn't require a track!

Hey..

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:36.

when you think about it, everything we do is contributing to the eventual heat death of the universe, right?

Seriously...

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 09:17.

sometimes I wish I could turn the engineer off.

Hahahah!

Submitted by dlind on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 05:12.

I was just getting ready to write a nice lengthy response about how silly your ideas were, and then I read the "Authors Note."

Nice post.

Free Energy Physics

Submitted by dalesvp on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 02:34.

and some people misthink we free thinking researchers are crazy...

Giant laser experiment powers up

The US has finished constructing a huge physics experiment aimed at recreating conditions at the heart of our Sun.

"To work, it must show that more energy can be extracted from the process than is required to initiate it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7972865.stm

Yes

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:31.

they are essentially burning a fuel. That doesn't violate any of the laws of physics. The fuel will be used up at some point.

And no, HHO generators aren't just "burning a fuel". The difference is subtle, but extremely significant.

You're really something

Submitted by freefarmer on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 00:30.

There are lots of energy producing ideas that work. Fuellesspower.net
I hate saracastic posts like this.

Extra Energy

Submitted by dalesvp on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:32.

I have a failing and that is I hate to repeat myself. But here goes anyway since so many can't seem to add two to two to get four. I wrote the follow up on my forum should any wish to know more.

FACT 1: Last I heard around 85% of the gasoline used in an internal combustion engine does not get burned as it goes through the notoriously inefficient engine. It used to get blown out the exhaust pipe. Then to hide this they forced everyone to use catalytic converters to hide that fact of great waste.

FACT 2: Hydrogen burns hotter and much faster than gasoline vapors.

FACT 3: Mixed hydrogen, oxygen into gasoline vapors will ignite and burn quicker than the gasoline and will act as an igniter or accelerator to more completely combust the gasoline vapors.

FACT 4: When a given amount of gasoline creates more expansion pressure than it did before not as much of it is needed for the same or similar performance. This means

FACT 5: mileage traveled per gallon of said gasoline is improved.

Therefore the HHO phenomenon is in general a process to improve the overall combustion efficiency of an existing fuel so as to increase performance on less of that standard fuel.

HHO is NOT about getting something for nothing.
HHO is NOT about perpetual or continuous motion.
HHO is NOT about eliminating standard fuels.

Possible

Submitted by Acala on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 09:54.

You cannot get more energy by burning hydrogen and oxygen than was required to drive the electrolysis reaction that liberated that hydrogen and oxygen from water. This is just the painful reality of physics. MANY of the free energy people ignore this law of nature and they are barking up the wrong tree.

However, as you point out, the internal combustion engine is not 100% efficient. It is not nearly as inefficient as you suggest, but it is a far cry from 100%. Just the fact that the engine gets too hot to touch demonstrates that it does not convert 100% of the chemical energy content of the fuel into mechanical energy. Therefore . . .

IF introducing hydrogen and oxygen gas into the fuel mixture does something to the complex dynamics of combustion in the cylinder to substantially increase the efficiency of the burning of the gasoline such that more of the chemical energy of the gasoline was converted into mechanical energy, and it was enough of an increase to outweigh the loss of energy due to inefficiencies in the electrolysis process, then you COULD get an increase in gas mileage in a vehicle.

I'm not saying you do. I'm not saying you don't. I'm just saying that it is at least POSSIBLE to increase the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. And maybe injecting hydrogen and oxygen will do that.

But every time somebody talks about getting more energy from burning "hho" gas than it takes to create it, damage is done to the cause. Cuz that ain't happening.

100% agree with this

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 10:00.

Well stated. Last time I checked, I think ICEs were around 35% thermally efficient... which immediately means that the 85% inefficiency number quoted above (which would suggest 15% or less thermal efficiency) is grossly inflated. That 35% thermal efficiency is accounting for almost all of the energy losses in the system, not just combustion innefficiency.

I went to Dale's website to try to find more info, hoping he really did have some data on HHO improving combustion efficiency. Unfortunately, all I found was a bunch of stuff about "sympathetic vibration physics". It was short on scientific information and long on metaphysics.

What is the chemical structure of HHO?

Submitted by Joesmoe on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 22:51.

?

—

CHA-CHING!

you're stupid

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 22:57.

if you can't figure that out.

—

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Alright.

Submitted by Joesmoe on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 00:27.

What is the chemical structure of HHO?

Hello?

—

CHA-CHING!

Ok Dale..

Submitted by Forge on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 19:59.

I'll bite.

Combustion science isn't my forte, but, I'm not a dolt either. If you can provide something a little more substantial to back up your claims about the benefits of hydrogen injection on combustion, I'll take this a little more seriously. Listing unsubstantiated "FACTS" doesn't exactly qualify as peer-reviewed material, ya know : )

I have my doubts that the volume of HHO is large enough to be significant, but, at least your argument isn't claiming to violate any laws of physics. So, can you provide some more info?

Just to be clear, I'm honestly asking here.... despite what Oruval might think, I'm not a closed minded "disinfo agent". If you can back up this claim, I'd really be interested in seeing it.

Once caveat: Anecdotal stories of "I built one and it worked" aren't gonna fly. I want to see some actual data from some sort of controlled test.

Sorry, Forge.

Submitted by dalesvp on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 02:59.

It is not my place in life to waste it attempting to convince anyone of anything. My job is to find, correlate and present what I found whether good, bad or otherwise. I have done this with over 11,000 pages on my web site and many thousand pages more to come. That doesn't count numerous books, articles, videos and thousands of web commentaries like this one. Everyone is welcome to check it out and either accept it or reject it. I don't particularly care.

If you were truly interested in anything other than substantiating what you think you already know (or believe) then you would DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

Learning something new is not that difficult. You could begin here:

http://www.google.com/

Search hint: "laminar burning velocity"
On youtube.com search: "HHO"
Large collection of researched data:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Hho
I won't of course do the research (keystrokes) for you.

Please don't make the mistake anyone gives a damn what you think or believe about anything - they don't. Science moves humbly forward. Science is rebellious. Science is irreverent and has little respect for persons or their cherished beliefs. The hope of science is the future as it crushes the past beneath its restless feet.

What is the address

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:10.

of your website?

Bend over

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 22:58.

Let me stick a tube up your ass, I'll turn on the HHO cell let it run for a few seconds to fill you up.. then we'll pull the tube out.. upon where I'll light a match and watch you catch your living room on fire when your ass explodes.

That seems like a first person test that will really drive the point home with you.

—

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/

You should

Submitted by Forge on Tue, 03/31/2009 - 07:11.

really be a lawyer.

Your eloquence is surpassed only by your understanding of how to form a logical response.

Ah come on, oruval

Submitted by dalesvp on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:08.

its just getting interesting. Here's some quotes:

Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." ~ Lord Kelvin (1895)

"Video won’t be able to hold onto any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night." ~ Darryl F. Zanuck, head of 20th Century Fox (1946)

"I can assure you on the highest authority that data processing is a fad and won’t last out the year." ~ Business books editor at Prentice-Hall (1957)

Your quotes side with me.

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:11.

I'm trying to prove that HHO can improve gas mileage immensely.

—

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

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It doesn't take a rocket

Submitted by dalesvp on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:17.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It just takes someone willing to think outside their programming - plus do some research. Our simplest device did 25% gas mileage improvement before it melted. Newer designs have been tried and more are coming. Actually a vehicle can be run on this gas 100%. But you need a lot of gas which the vehicle cannot produce on its own using the usual and conventional methods. In 1996 I ran a VW on BG just to prove it could be done. There is no gain there but it can work. Don't let the naysayers get you down. What do they know?

Trickster..

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:20.

LOL.. you got me. Thanks for that..

—

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Great quote

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 17:04.

and I'm done with this thread

"History is full of people who out of fear, ignorance, or lust of power have destroyed knowledge of immeasurable value which truly belongs to us all.
We must not let it happen again."
-Carl Sagan

—

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/

I agree. Only a fool would

Submitted by dalesvp on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 16:43.

I agree. Only a fool would claim they are getting more energy out than they are putting in + what is already in the H20 (using the current processes of course which precludes any NEW developments and understandings not usually known about or commonly used, employed, tested or played with.)

alright

Submitted by oruval on Mon, 03/30/2009 - 16:52.

Do you use a radio?
headlights? It only takes 12 volts to power a HHO device and it can add 20% to you gas mileage.. SO the argument that we are at max efficiency from gas it is pretty moot argument. Their is much more efficiency but that would lead to less control over peoples lives..

The mechanical energy that is being wasted from the alternator is what powers the HHO. Cars have an energy dump.. we are wasting energy.

It's like saying that the engine cannot power the altenator to allow the car to be restarted because the engine's fuel has only enough to power to move the car forward and that the battery will not be powered because you can't get something from nothing.

Careful when you point fingers calling people fools, you usually have three pointing back at you.

—

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/