The Constitution is a FRAUD?

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...at least according to this guy... http://nashville.craigslist.org/pol/1101680989.html

Curious to know what you guys think of these thoughts.I desperately need help to reply properly with an honest attempt to reach him. Here is the text in full for those who hate to click links.

Subject: Fox in the Hen House
I must share with all the greatest deception this country has ever faced and probably the answer as to why our elected officials no longer answer to us. In order to process this information. you will have to put aside past indoctrinations and or beliefs and truly hear me out. Then form your own conclusions. I have spent the last few years fighting for the reform of the system only to realize I was decieving myself. I found this deception and it made me realize why they don't answer to us and probably never have. It starts with the document we have all been lead to believe ensures our rights and restrains them. The constitution. This is the deception. Let's look at the facts. The constitution was never given to the colonists to vote on, or sign. Only fourty men signed that contract. Under simple contract law, no one can sign a document for someone else and expect it to have merit. If this were possible then all contracts would be null and void. Also, this is one of the reasons why you must first petition a state to take a case federal, states have rights, we don't. The founders had another side, not often given to public view. Most of the founders were elitists who owned slaves. George Washington owned over 300 at the time of his death. Thomas Jefferson had a slave by the name of Sally Hemmings who fathered his first child at the age of 13. Thomas Jefferson also owned over a hundred slaves. Now some will argue that it was common at the time, however it wasn't common to ordinary regular colonists. The majority of colonists didn't own slaves. There was also a large movement at the time, which was against the moral concept of slavery. So what gives with the founders? They had hundreds. Most of the founders belonged to secret societies and some were even knighted by the king. The constitution could have never been a free system. It allowed for absolute control of the many by the few via taxation and law making. Article 1 Section 2-8, paying close attention to the last paragraph of Section 8 which explains the absolute power they have in law making. Is taxation not FORCED? In a forced system why would they NEED to give you representation? or maybe... just merely the illusion of it... Of course the founders gave us the bill of rights, how long before the colonists figured out the deception and turned on the founders? The constitution was merely a tool for taxation and control. There were no provisions in it that guarenteed any rights. We were already doing what the bill of rights gaureenteed anyway. We doing it with muskets. We were doing it to the British. We were free before the constitution. How would you take control of a newly formed free country? You would gaureentee them rights ( that they already had ) and you would tell them that this document restrained your powers. How could it? With taxation they have created armies, weapons ect via our forced tax dollars! It was intentionally set up as a system of control and extortion. Maybe, that's why no one got to vote on it or sign it. How can you expect to have representation in a forced system? We are truly slaves to the ruling classes and always have been. The constitution is the greatest lie ever taught, and it's the elitists final trump card. When all else fails it allows them to stay in business and to build that business back up again. Even if you could reform this system, you will still be taxed, regulated and forced to pay extortion monies. This is what feeds the beast and what keeps the beast alive. They count on our participation and reform to keep the lie going. They even indoctrinate it, in our children. We don't have a free system and we never have. Taxation is force and force is not freedom. Once taxation got placed inside of the constitution, every other promise was moot. After all, did we not escape from that? It truly had to have been an elitist that coined the term "taxation without representation" because, why in a forced system would they need to give you representation?

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he makes great points!!!

this is a very strong "Anarchist" argument. I feel the writer makes many valid points. To be honest, I think his argument is sound. I wouldn't respond if I were you.

Binding the Constitution

AS legal representatives of the thirteen states the Constitution is a binding agreement with each other to form a central Federal GOV't ...What binds the States binds the people of those States & what binds the Federal Gov't to the States is legal & binding ..The States reserve the power unto themselves not implied to the Federal Gov't which means the Constitution is bound from the people not the reverse...What the States take & gave is binding ..To which we have amendments by the States who are the administators of this document ....It is binding YOUR STATES' representatives who are the binders sent to administer or be in charge of same...If you have lousy representation it is at the STATE level & voter level of that State where the problem exists ...Vote the BUMS out of office at the STATE level ,these are the SEATS which are in Control or OUT OF CONTROL...Addendum :: You need a third PARTY to accomplish any renasaunce, as the two partys have gone off the deep end ....TRAITORS to American Principles
you-no

That's like saying

Everyone's a catholic because a catholic church sits on Main St, in your town! How can they be my legal representitives, if I did not sign the contract, if I did not get to "agree" on the terms of the document? or vote on the contract? Why didn't the colonists get a vote? How hard would that have been? Because it just is ...right? Not good enough. I seem to remember the preamble, saying WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, IN ORDER TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION...It doesn't say we the states in order to form a perfect union! It's all an illusion! The constitution is not bound to the people! The people didn't get a vote! It wouldn't be any different than a group of lawyers, getting together and voting to take you land, you neighbors land and businesses and grouping them together, and controling them and placing taxation apon them!!! What's the difference? All of this is moot anyway. Just a diverson from the real truth of the matter. Taxation and control. Your answer is go and place another pawn that will do nothing more than the same ole dog and pony show. The people will still be taxed, regulated and extorted from. There is no reform of this system. There is no representation, only the illusion of it. What is the need to give you representation in a forced system? It's FORCE. The reason why you have lousy representation is because they are smart enough to understand that they control you! and you live in a forced system! Do you think for a minute they don't know that?

great stuff

So far this input is incredibly educating for me. Thanks guys keep it coming. :) The more I understand about the Constitution the better.

The Fraud Is In Article Six

I wanted to post a response this morning that addresses the fraud in the Constitution. I am sorry I do not have the time to post a thorough response and (because I must leave for work) will post more information later.

Article VI states:

"Clause 1. All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation."

It is important to note there are no annotations within the Constitution Annotated (which is the official interpretation of the Constitution.)

Clause Two.

"Clause 2. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby; any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding."

Read this clause several times. Do you see what they did?

I would encourage anyone on the forum to complete a thorough investigation of this clause. The U.S. Constitution Annotated would be a good start. Then read the case law pertaining to the annotations of Article VI.

It is well worth the time invested to understand how Article VI affects everyone on this forum.

Be well'

Larry

One cannot export Democracy at the barrel of a gun.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

Well what do you propose?

I don't believe our founding fathers designed something to keep control of the population. It's the best system, as of right now, that man has come up with for promoting freedom! Yes most of them were wealthy and owned slaves, but so did most wealthy people all over the world, not only wealthy people but more powerful tribes in other countries enslaved lesser tribes, slavery has been around since the beginning! It's relatively recent to not have slaves compared to the whole history of slavery. Also how do you suppose a government is supposed to work? The problem is that they have gone to extremes of taxation which does indeed weigh on the population and needs to be challenged, our government has drifted away from it's original purpose. It sounds to me like you are promoting anarchy! Also as an example what about the ten commandments? from which we get our laws, whether they admit it or not, are you then saying because no one got to vote on them that it to is forced upon us? that it has no merit? Your throwing the baby out with the bathwater!! Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, that basically means pay your taxes, it won't be perfect until He comes back! Again I say what do you propose we should do, do you have some great idea on how our society should be run?

Fear knocked on my door and Faith answered!

What is hard to believe?

They owned hundreds of slaves. They had experience in control. You fail to recognize that for the most part, regular common people did not own slaves only those with power and money.You also fail to recognize that you are a slave. A labor slave, and a debt slave. You are controlled from cradle to grave.Your money has no incentric value. Thus you are forced to work and toil for those who create the money out of nothing, to pay interest back on something they created out of nothing, just to live and function! They have stolen your labor! Not only do they steal it thru fiat currency, they steal it with various forms of taxation, especially a tax on your labor! They have also made you a commercial enity inside the UCC. They make you commerce via the capitalization of your name on your BC, SScard and DL and all legal documents henceforth. They do this as a method of extortion. You ask the question, how is the gubberment supposed to work? What gubberment? You mean the one I never got to vote on or sign? The phoney contract? Are you talking about taxation running the gubberment? Taxation is a force. PERIOD. No matter how you try to JUSTIFY it, it will still be a FORCE. You cannot have FORCE without action in free society. If the gubberment or the fed ( both the same to me ) prints all the fiat currency and creates it out of nothing and gives it value, why would they need to tax you? A labor slave, a debt slave you are. When you end the fed, who will take control of the money supply? The SAME criminals. Don't kid yourself. Our laws today are derived from mammon law, which is taken from the talmud, which is the subverted word of GOD. Ye cannot love GOD and mammon ( they changed the meaning of mammon to gold and silver ) Maybe, we lived by the ten commandments when we first got here, but we don't today. The ten commandments hold the highest natural moral principles known to man. GOD does not force. He gives free will. If we were taught that the highest acheivement of mankind, is moral principle, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Mans law is without merit and only used for extortion and control by the ruling classes. You seem to have such high reguard for control and extortion. The reason the law is without merit, is that society functions WITHOUT the law now. For every law written, and every lawbreaker caught, how many thousands/millions more doing the same thing that don't get caught? This goes for those who don't wear seatbelts, murders, rapists, pedophiles, where do you think all the children go? How about all the unsolved murders and rapes? How about drug users? Do you think they get they're drugs from the ones that have been caught? You have been indoctrinated in control. These rapists, murders, pedophiles, robbers, drug users, have always been in society. they are your neighbors, friends, and co-workers. The walk amongst us every single day, and always have. This goes for EVERY law written. It's like the seeds in an apple, society comes that way. The law is without merit for three reasons, society functions without the law. The second reason is, they profit from passing laws. Profit leads to incentive and motive to pass more draconian laws. The second is they reduce sentences and the law bends? In some cases broken and re-established. If the law bends then it is without merit. You seem to think anarchy won't work. It works now, it's just veiled. Lift up the cover and society functions without the law. The laws are written to extort and control you. In most cases when a revenue collecter reaches your door the crime has already been committed.The law is the same as socialism, it makes people dependant on something that could never really save them to begin with, and in most cases it prevents people from defending themselves. The only person who can truly ever defend you is, yourself. How do you know what Jesus was talking about when he said, "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's? It doesn't say anything about paying your taxes. Maybe, he was trying to tell us NOT to pay! Isn't excepting misdeeds and lies the fundemental foundation of what Jesus was against? The baby HAS been killed, held under and drowned in the bathwater.

Another misguided Christian brother

Tell me, what in your home belongs to our Caesar? What part of your labor or thoughts belong to him? And how does it feel, knowing that you're his slave to do with as he sees fit?

Misguided? How So?

Well maybe you can explain to me what you mean? If you really think about it, we don't own anything, you can't take it with you when you die. Taxation on labor is wrong and should be abolished........I watched America:Freedom to Facism. Your labor and your thoughts are you're own. How you play that out in society is up to you. We are not his slaves...at least not yet.

Fear knocked on my door and Faith answered!

Seriously? Think about it this way.

Am I your slave?

If you support the idea of the government collecting taxes, then you support the idea of that group of people calling themselves government using the threats of theft, imprisonment, and death against me to extort the fruits of my labor from me. Are you a christian, or are you a Christian? I seem to recall that Jesus wasn't too big on using force to make anyone do anything against their will, except for that little incident with the money changers in the temple. So, am I your slave? Would you send out the armed thugs to steal from me to get what you want?

Senate Document 43 (73rd Congress)

Ownership of everything is in the State. The Citizen is reduced to mere use.

One cannot export Democracy at the barrel of a gun.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

I Believe you're

I Believe you're misinformed. The only taxes that were imposed were excise taxes through either Direct or Indirect taxation (business). This does not include personal income tax. The only times additional taxes were imposed was after a war like the civil war and WWI. Usually these taxes were lifted after two ot three years, You should look up the numerous Supreme Court rulings made against the Government regarding taxation of individuals You would be very surprised at the decisions.The freedom that we had was based on Common Law which has much of its foundation in the Bible. The United States Supreme Court ruled that the Common Law no longer applied in the U.S. and that is what ended your freedom. It is important to note that the Supreme Court ruled in other cases that the Congress could not change the constitution from which it derives its powers. So how can the Supreme Court? It is not the Constitution that is the problem it is the people who will not follow its rules. The people always have the power over the government thru revolution. Isn't that what Thomas Jefferson meant when he said it is our right and our duty to throw off a bad government? We can not blame the Constitution, nor our Forefathers for our failure to stand up and fight tyranny. If you think that they were elitest then I challenge you to learn more about these men and the losses they suffered as a result of their actions. Take some time and read the Declaration of Independence it may enlighten you.

What gave us the Supreme Court?

The Supreme Court rules in favor of the constitution, only for the continuation of the deception. Hope staves off revolutions. If you have hope you will continue to work for a system of extortion. Unknowingly, you work for your own enslavement. The Supreme Court merely uses the constitution to keep the deception going. Why do you think they ruled against the constitution/common law and declared the UCC king? Common Law wasn't the money maker the UCC was. They just switched from one illusion to another more profitable one and still kept the old policies of taxation, regulation, and extortion. They figured the best commerce they had going at the time was us/you/me. Thus the capitalization of all the letters of your name on your BC, DL, SScard and all other legal documents henceforth. All caps signify the corporation. You are now commerce to be used as a method of extortion within the UCC. But that was a stepping stone that started with the constitution. If you will take a look in the constitution, no where does it say these taxes were merely excises. As a matter of fact, Article 1 section 8 at the begining of 8, plainly states. The congress shall have the Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises. No where does it say taxes "FOR" Excises or "NO" income tax. It even begins to lay out the map for taxation right under the preamble. Your saying that our freedoms were based on common law, im saying you don't have freedoms in a forced system and a system based on taxation is... FORCE. I know that we are no longer under common law, even if we were, we would still have taxation, regulation and extortion which is the opposite of freedom. I am fully aware of the UCC and it's deceptions. I know the the Supreme Court pretends otherwise, and quite well at that. What makes you think our elected officials aren't pretending? Why would you ever think that once they had the absolute control to tax and make the laws, they would obey the rules? Why would they? They only need to keep the illusion going long enough to maintain total control or for what ever agendas they may have. You say, that the people have the power to take back what is lost thru a revolution. Maybe, back then when the odds were more in our favor, but even then it would have been difficult, just like it would be today, only they have a little more advanced weaponary via our forced tax dollars. It doesn't matter anyway, because indoctrination is every bit as powerful as a revolution. I mean wasn't it a communist who laid out the public/gubberment education system in this country? If you helped write a deception, and "gave" it to the public as freedom, what would you want to be remembered as when the truth was brought to light? Do you think, you wouldn't have back up plan with some good quotes? How about a back up plan to allow you to restart the whole process all over, ie the constitution. Why do people try and justify wrong doings? We never signed it, we never voted on it. Why is that? How is it possible for someone to sign a contract for the rest of us not present, without consent, and it have and hold merit? How long has this basic principle stood? Can a law be broken and then renewed again and still have merit? Are we under an illusion? The founders also owned slaves, not just one or two, BUT HUNDREDS. Almost all of them were freemasons. Some of them were knighted by the King. We cannot blame the constitution? What formed all of this? I think I remember Ron Paul saying if the diagnosis is wrong change it. I have read the Declaration of Independance. I don't see independance in the constitution, I see a foundation of taxation and control by elitists, a ruling class. I don't believe you can ever get true representation in a system of force. I believe the founders, didn't give us the bill of rights to ensure our freedoms, I believe they did it to ensure they lived out the rest of their lives from the colonists.

Looks like DP member 2bfree wrote that!

Cool. I think a lot of what 2bfree wrote there makes really good sense. Today, I would like to return to the Constitutional size of gov't--but if I was alive in the 1780's I would have been an anti-federalist.

What it boils down to imo, is that the leading intellectuals of the time thought that a limited government (a) could work and (b) was a necessary evil.

(a) In the 200+ years since then, working off the path blazed by these pioneers of liberty, libertarian thinkers have argued (successfully imo) that the incentive structure that an agency of coercive force sets in place (ie. a government) is one of expansion.
(b) As well, in the 200+ years, "Austrian" economists have argued that the public goods theory is a myth--that is all goods (and services) can be better provided by the market.