Tazering Laws and making driving a right not a privledge
Submitted by bedr1 on Fri, 11/23/2007 - 01:33In those states that allow petition inititives - a petition drive should start banning tazering - its way out of hand. Once the petition gets the proper amount of signatures it can then be voted on with some great commercials featuring out of control cops and their tazer gear.
In addition - since you won't be able to drive unless you get a National ID card the only way to fight that is to make driving a state constitutional right rather than a privledge - then they can't force you to get a national id to drive.
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Not having the right
to question an officer probably came about because of the patriot act? Anybody know?! My son was treated badly when asking Why he was stopped, he wasn't tazered, but was ultimately handcuffed because he didn't "obey" an officer.He was standing on the public highway quietly, told to get back in his vehicle, and asked if he was under arrest? Stated that, if he wasn't under arrest, he was free to stand there.
The Police chief told him later that even though he wasn't under arrest, he must obey the officer because he is considered detained or something when he is contacted by an officer.
Tazers and such
I belong to a Corvette club thats core membership is law enforcement.All of them seem to be very upright and good,But they do tell about the others who abuse power and are downright criminal.Some have become cops to fulfill fantasies of shoot em up or because of self esteem issues.One friend directed me to a online cop forum discussing the possible use of forced blood test for dui suspects who refuse breathalzers.The proposed law would allow an officer to restrain and forceably take blood own his own. The comments from some of these badge wearing nutjobs was disturbing,a good number detailed how much pain they would inflict upon "suspects" or ex wives boyfriends ect.. Tools in the wrong hands are dangerous!
To Protect and SERVE
I have been watching the various videos showing the abuse of the tazer and it sickens me to the deepest depths of my soul. The police are there to PROTECT AND SERVE. More often than not, they forget about the SERVE part.
I am not saying that ALL POLICE are that way, but many are. I lived in NYC all my life before relocating to NC 5 years ago. I was in an inter-racial marriage at the time, and I can tell you from first hand experience that POLICE cannot always be trusted to Protect and Serve.
I can't count how many times we were pulled over for nothing. I can't tell you how many times my husband was called "BOY" and treated liked garbage for no reason - What is it that gets into the minds of these officers that makes them think they have the right to treat people the way they do? Just like many of you have already said - Un-checked power and authority often equals ABUSE.
For some reason they seem to be taught that WE ARE ALL THE ENEMY, instead of being taught that we are innocent civilians that deserve protection and service - I am not talking about those who have committed a crime, I am talking about the average citizen who does not.
This most recent video of what happened in Utah seems to be the NORM these days, not the exception. That trooper was WAY out of line. That man asked him at least 5 times to TELL HIM WHY he was pulled over, and how fast he was speading. Why couldnt the trooper simply tell him? Why? I'll tell you why, because he seemed to think that he COULD NOT be questioned. Why is that? He got pissed off when the gentleman in the car had the AUDACITY to question why he was being pulled over.
So, now we are not even allowed to question anything for fear of being tazered. Then tell me why he did not tell the man he would tazer him? Isnt that the rule? That the VICTIM be told first so that he has the opportunity to comply? Then he was told that he was being arrested because he did follow the troopers instructions? So now, not following some crazed troopers instructions is a violation of the law requiring arrest? Let's move onto the arrest - Again, the man quietly but firmly asks for his rights to be read, and Mr. Super Trooper couldn't do that either?
Then when his fellow trooper arrives on the scene, HE LIED about what happened, while they BOTH LAUGHED at the pain they inflicted on that man. Really nice example of PROTECT and SERVE.
Ron Paul himself has said that the foundation for a Police State has already been set. We need to bring every one of these incidents to public view so that people are aware of the abuse of power that is going on. Since we as Ron Paul supporters have now been deemed domestic terrorists, I guess we have to look forward to a good tazering ourselves during our next peaceful sign wave.
What bothers me the most is that these incidents happen, they are reported in the news, everyone gets upset, and then its a new day. Slowly but surely the tide is turning, and it is not in our favor.
Thanks for listening to me vent.
Thank YOU for watching more closely .........
than I did. I KNEW the guy was treated wrongly, but hadn't realized he asked 5 times why he had been pulled over, THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! There ought to be more accountability to the people by our so-called 'civil-servants' , this officer niether behaved civilly, nor as a worthy servant of the people. The officer traumatized his wife and child for NO reason. Thankfully, we still have the right to voice dissent..............for now.
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
You saw this?
Utah cop tasers driver who refuses to sign speeding ticket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZRm8Gk1hI&feature=related
I just saw it for the first time last night...I guess it's old news, but still. After watching it, I wondered if the wife could have been justified killing the cop to defend her husband from assault...if she had been armed.
Tazers ARE the problem
Not the only one, of course. But saying that people are the problem is not an argument.
The safety analysts found out that safety equipment does not reduce injury rate. Why? Because on average, people with safety equipment tend to do more dangerous things than people without. Is this a reason not to use helmet? No. Can it be a reason not to mandate helmets in contact sport? Sure.
The premise is, that the Taser is a win in a situation where the only alternative is a gun. Unfortunately having a taser changes the behaviour of the policemen (as having the helmet), so that
- gets himself involved in a situation where he would have to use the gun, while he would have chosen alternative behaviour if he didn't have a taser
- just drawing the gun and a warning shot quite often forces cooperation without using any type of physical violence
- it is VERY EASY to use the taser and cause pain. It is soooo much easier then keep kicking and fisting the suspect and it is much more convinient than shoot (given the implications)
The taser in the hands of an exceptionally good policeman would be a good idea. Unfortunately, there is not enough exceptionally good people in the population. Having the alternative of an average policemen having a taser or not, the second option seems to me better.
ok
I'll admit i'm pi$$ed at the cops. its a personal thing. It is due to several experiences and that's the way it is.
It is also due to considerable information found on the internet freely available to everyone here. 284 taser deaths this year. have you seen the video of the guy with four people holding him in a jailroom who was tasered 14 times in a 45 second period? he died. there was absolutely no reason for that and there were like 10 cops standing around some of them were chuckling at first.. until he stopped moving and they tasered him some more for the fun of it. then they couldn't revive him and finally they stopped laughing. power corrupts.
I would rather everyone was armed than to trust the cops with law enforcement. The greatest contributing factor to the corruption of our law enforcement has been the war on drugs. This has forced responsibilities on the police to overrun the constitution like nothing else. But the cops are out of control and that is why I said cages. Because they are out of control and it is not just a couple out of every tenth city. Some people are dreaming or they forget the immunity to abuse they have when they identify themselves as fellow officers. Cops don't treat other cops with that kind of abuse. So learn from the internet what the cops are becoming.
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..Without the truth we have nothing
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..Without the truth we have nothing
I'd rather have cops AND an armed populace
I'd rather have cops and an armed populace, so I don't have to blow the head off of 10 idiots daily for trying to trample on my rights.
How about rather than sweeping all cops in all departments under one broad umbrella (sorta collectivist, no?), get to know a few cops or join local organizations meant to strenghten community-police relations. Get involved locally to help turn the tide. Look, after eight years of Ghouliani in NYC, the police were a law unto themselves. Would you rather get tased for 15 seconds or have a plunger shoved up your butt? But Bloomberg, not the greatest mayor NYC has seen, has been able to make a gentler police force, and there have been less police killings, less shots fired AND the Ghoul's supposedly miraculous crime drop has been neatly sustained.
Simply lashing out at cops and wishing them all away is not constructive at all, least of all because they're not going away. There will always be police forces. Rather if you really care you should get involved on the local level to strengthen community relations and, when necessary, file complaints.
And be glad you're not poor and black. My friend recently spent five months in jail because someone picked him out of a lineup as having robbed him. This was less than a month after he filed a complaint about cops who hassled him and a friend just returned from Iraq on the mistaken assumption that they must've been going to buy drugs. Its called "tag and bag" and its supposed to lower crime--but it never does. The best advice is to stay out of the system. If you don't have a record they don't have a picture and its harder to get fucked with. And more importantly, don't accept the way things are as the way they have to be, but don't waste energy on just lashing out and getting mad. Do something constructive.
Last line
Your last line nailed it...Go Ron Paul! I also think that your suggestion of strengthening community relations was GREAT. Both law enforcement AND the individual benefit from that idea.. You are more likely to trust a officer you know than one you don't, they are less likely to try to trample your rights if they know you.
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
I'd have to agree, Tazers
I'd have to agree, Tazers are not the problem, the person using the tazer is the problem. Just like one cannot blame the pencil for misssplllled words. Tazers are for your protection just as much as for the officers safety when used correctly. Better training on when it is to be used is the proper answer. Calling for an end to tazers equates to calling an end to guns or gun control. Only a tyrant would ask for such a thing. A leader would ask for better training in human rights and when it is appropriate use of force.
Cheers,
Your friend in Liberty!
Liberty for who?
Not "We the People!"
If anything, there should be major penalties for using them when not absolutely necessary; jail time and law suits, loss of job and more. When something goes unchecked, it will always be abused. Just ask our current friends in Washington.
Bob W., Naples, FL
Were you ever a cop or know
Were you ever a cop or know many cops... I'm not justifying what happened to that man was right use of force, but at the same time he was not following directions which makes any cop nervous. And there are penalties and courses of action that are and have been taken here. That Gentlemen will get his day in court and get his answer so the check and balance is working as the media has picked up on the story.
I know many
And have had many as customers. Just like everything else, there are good and bad. Give anyone too much power however, and most will abuse it. And if it's a day in court like I have had, whe cop will lie through his teeth and all will believe him or her because people are conditioned to do so. Believe me, you are always guilty until proven innocent when it's your word against an officer.
I can see where the person didn't comply with his demands totally, but he wouldn't have had to make up that lie to the other cop about warning him first if he didn't do something unlawful and immoral. That guy, at that point, was absolutely no threat. The coward tasered him in the back when he wasn't even looking....and he certainly wasn't trying to injure him or run away. Inexcusable! Take them away or have strict penalties for using when not absolutely needed. They have been proven to be lethal in many cases so what other evidence is needed to do so?
Bob W., Naples, FL
Tazering is effective non-lethal force
It should not be banned from use, that's just absurd. What needs to be effected is the enforcement of the laws against abuse of power etc. Just because there are incidents of misuse doesn't mean tazers aren't worthwhile. They are a valuable tool when used correctly by police officers. It's not like you'd advocate banning them from carrying guns, and tazers overwhelmingly are used properly in dangerous situations.
"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta
Tell that to.....
the 284 people that died from their use in just the U.S. this year. Anyone know the stat's on how many died per year from being shot by a cop prior to extisence of tasers?
Bob W., Naples, FL
hmm
Where are those numbers from, and how many of those people were legitimate threats to the safety of the officers? I would much rather be tazered and have a small chance of dying than be shot. I'm sure for many of those people that died it was a choice between the tazer and a gun, and the officer used the tazer so as not to kill.
"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta
Captain
Oh, you mean like the guy we just saw in Utah or the guy at Florida U. Yeah, they looked like they were life threatening and a choice between shooting or tasing. When he was on the ground, handcuffed with 5 cops on him, he looked like a major threat. There was no choice, he had to be tased! The nerve of anyone to question that; he was very dangerous laying on the ground there.
Just curious, do you work for gov't. in some capacity?
I saw those stats on a program the other day where the guy died in Canada at the airport. Canada, this year, had about 30ish deaths from them. I think I'd prefer a bullet in the leg, thanks.
Bob W., Naples, FL
No you don't
A bullet in the leg hurts a lot more than a taser shot. That's not even talking about a shot in the kneecap, that's the second worst place to get non-lethally shot. Death-by-taser is usually the result of a heart or other medical condition, so a shot in the leg could easily induce the same response.
And there are much more serious questions for Canadians about the guy who got tased there than why Mounties use tasers. Like, what kind of an immigration policy allows a guy who spoke no English, had no job but had a criminal record into Canada? And where was airport security for the first eight hours he was in the airport, obviously mentally distressed.
A state with police does not a police state make.
The point is....
If the cop was going to have to shoot someone, he or she, would think quite substantially before they did so. With a taser, they think it is "reasonable." In most cases, it is NOT!
"A state with police does not a police state make." But a cop with a taser with no restrictions makes a potential criminal and killer.....with an excuse and unbridled justification.
You stay here and have fun with the tasers. I'll be in another country if Dr. P. doesn't win. You can write and tell me how wonderful things are that they're just tasering people, not shooting them.
Bob W., Naples, FL
Where do you plan on going?
Canada? They have a bigger taser problem than we do. Europe? America is still the free-est country on the planet. That's why we need to get Ron Paul elected. Ronald Reagan told a story once about a Cuban exile he met here and Reagan told him "how lucky we are" after hearing about his experiences, to which the Cuban replied; "how lucky I am, that I have somewhere to go." Ron Paul may have relayed this story at some point, I don't remember where I heard it. The point is this is the last line of defense against proto-fascism worldwide.
And cops with tasers do have restrictions. In the Canadian case, I've seen the video and I don't think they overstepped their authority. In this video obviously they did. Thank God for the transparency of the internet and for cheap video technology, it will be easier to bring people like these state troopers to justice. When someone's rights are infringed, they have to seek relief.
It would be good to note, too, that Dr. Paul has lamented the overuse of litigation and lawsuits, but in the Utah case it would be perfectly reasonable.
For truth see bottom of thread
Otherwise, quit being so reactionary. I'm obviously against those 2 cases, but they're just 2 cases. Big surprise, out of the thousands of cops a few are nuts. I think deep down you know you're wrong, but would rather misuse what I said in regard to the Florida incident to justify your radical beliefs. I never questioned that, at all. Again, read the bottom of the thread, and if you disagree with that, you are just wrong.
"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta
Sorry Captain
I forgot that you were in charge here and if you say something, it must be right and should never be questioned. Did you avoid my question for a reason? What is it that you do or did for work?
Bob W., Naples, FL
Woah
Some people here have serious authority complexes. The Cap didn't tell you he must be right and shouldn't be questioned. And you completely ignored his point and went for the personal jugular. Whether or not he's a cop (his handle's got Captain in it, take a guess bright guy; and no, I don't know him), his point is the same. Being a g-man doesn't make his point less valid, and attacking who he is for what point he's making is intellectually lazy or dishonest.
And no, I'm not a cop. Read my first post in this thread, I got hassled by a few just today.
Oneinsix
Now I see why you got pulled over. They spotted a genius in the vehicle and wanted to give you a medal.
As for the Cap, if he didn't want people to think he was prejudiced to using tasers, he would have admitted what he did for work. Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining, son.
And I did read his post and was not impressed.
No more time to debate with fools. Time for bed to get ready for more RP promotions tomorrow.
Bob W., Naples, FL
Hahahaha thanks guys
This is really funny...look up captain falcon on google for a good laugh. I'm actually in film, having absolutely nothing to do with working for the government or police force.
"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta
You are not a Nintendo character
You are a cop, I can smell bacon from a mile away :-p
Let's keep in mind we're all Ron Paul supporters here, so at the end of the day it's all good. Reasonable people can disagree, and dialogue can lead to good ideas or even, shockingly, some consensus, without flame war :-)
Sorry Captain
If you won't play with your toys nicely they will be taken away.
The cops are killing people with them. Hundreds of people. Apparently they cannot control the power trip and use them to subjugate non dangerous but problematic people. It's just too easy to abuse so i guess you'll have to do without them.
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..Without the truth we have nothing
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..Without the truth we have nothing
Unproductive
That is such unproductive thinking. We take away their tasers they still have guns. "The cops" are not some monolithic singular institution. Hundreds of people, there are thousands of police departments. So its one or two bad cops every nine or ten police departments responsible for those statistics.
Agreed.
With the amount of people killed in excessive use of force by police officers using guns, tasers may not be great, but at least its not generally deadly force.
oh
so since the cops are using excessive lethal force with guns this is the solution? To use excessive not so lethal force? How about putting the cops back in their cages?
You know.. once upon a time I had a great deal of respect and trust in our law enforcement. Now I dislike police in general and I fear them knowing as I do from first hand experience they have one objective. To control. They do not act in accordance with their solemn oath.
They view the public as wayward dogs to be controlled. I will not be treated like a *&^%ing DOG any more !
You cops want a safer job apply at a factory or something. Otherwise live up to your oath.
_______________________________
..Without the truth we have nothing
_______________________________
..Without the truth we have nothing