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Documentary: Argentina's Economic Collapse
Submitted by nirosive on Tue, 04/07/2009 - 13:16
This was posted on the PP forum. Apparently recommended by Max Keiser. I've only watched the first two parts but I can already tell you, it's impressive. Part 1 of 12 » |
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The problem isn't privatization per se
The problem, like what happens in so many countries, is that Government takes the wealth of the nation in order to build an infrastructure, and then sells it (usually at a bargain) to an corporate crony or overarching oligarch.
It not like the government give shares to those who built it, or even offers a purchase auction - it always just goes to the first bidder
In Ontario, our "common sense conservatives" sold the only toll road in Toronto, at cost to a foreign corporation, of course since then the cost of use has skyrocketed for the people.
The conservatives championed the sale a free market venture - but how can it be a free market if there is only one road
The competition, like in so many other countries then becomes between government vs monopoly.
Other examples of the same practice in Canada
are Bell(BCE), Air Canada, Petro Canada, Telus, Rogers, CN, VIA, Ontario Hydro...
www.Umake.it - The online resource for the Hand Made Society
The problem isn't privatization per se
The problem, like what happens in so many countries, is that Government takes the wealth of the nation in order to build an infrastructure, and then sells it (usually at a bargain) to an corporate crony or overarching oligarch.
It not like the government give shares to those who built it, or even offers a purchase auction - it always just goes to the first bidder
In Ontario, our "common sense conservatives" sold the only toll road in Toronto, at cost to a foreign corporation, of course since then the cost of use has skyrocketed for the people.
The conservatives championed the sale a free market venture - but how can it be a free market if there is only one road
The competition, like in so many other countries then becomes between government vs monopoly.
Other examples of the same practice in Canada
are Bell(BCE), Air Canada, Petro Canada, Telus, Rogers, CN, VIA, Ontario Hydro...
www.Umake.it - The online resource for the Hand Made Society
oops quadruple post??
oops quadruple post??
oops quadruple post??
oops quadruple post??
oops quadruple post??
oops quadruple post??
Full video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4353655982817317115
good video
the parallels are painful. i learned a lot.
I watched the whole 12-part
I watched the whole 12-part series and came away with a different take. It doesn't condemn private business so much as corruption and collaboration between private business and government.
Unscrupulous international bankers bought Argentina's wealth at a discount from unscrupulous politicians who happened to be in control of state-owned industries. The problem was that the industries were state-owned and therefore it was "collective responsibility" that was at fault, not greedy corrupt politicians.
Something similar happened in Russia at the same time, but for different reasons. Argentina's liquidation of state-owned industries was ostensibly to pay off debts. Russia's was the privatization and redistribution. What happened in Russia was equal to a thousand Argentinas. A robbery on a global scale.
People may denounce the imprisonment of Khordorkovsky but he was one of dozens of well-placed accountants who learned how to get their hands on the hundreds of million of "Shares of state wealth" for pennies on the millions of dollars. Other massive criminals like Berezovsky fled to the crime capital, London, while billions lie in Caymans and Swiss banks.
The problem with Argentina and Russia is that wolves were in charge of privatization.
"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"
Warning about this Video
I just finished watching this video and it is a very telling and well thought out documentary. It does allow one to draw some similarities about the Argentinian economy to ours. I would like to append some thought however to this video. The main focus of this video is political corruption and big business. Something we should know about very well by now here in the USA. It is more than apparent that this film advocates public ownership, that is government ownership, of public works. The main argument is that the oil companies, airlines, water works, post office, etc. should never have left public control. They blame the right wing for these privatization atrocities and the following economic collapse. Herein lies one of the many problems with nationalization of resources. At some point a political figure will be tempted to wield the nation's assets like a sword and use it for his own advantage. At some point privatization, that evil specter, will come up in the political argument. They problem now is that if a private company were to buy another company there would be negotiations, share holder meeting, board of directors meeting, appraisals of assets by both parties and a lot of other considerations. With the privatization of a company owned by the writers of laws opens the field to massive corruption. As is well documented in this film the companies which lobbied to take over the companies were given special stipulations by the law givers. The most notable mentioned, in my opinion, being the fact that any debt affiliated with the operation of the privatized companies would be shouldered by the government. It's like being eighteen and having your parent's credit card. These private companies were allowed to take enormous risk positions with no risk at all and thus claim huge returns. Many other stipulations and operations not conducive to a normal and profitable company were either tossed out or ignored as this film documents well. However, the film portrays those who formed the world's first nationalized company as heroes along with all of the other nationalized companies and longs for the days of nationalization of industry. My argument is that the end result of public ownership and operation is always fascism. This is a clear cut documentary of the "great divide" between fascists and socialists or Marxists. In this documentary he goes to great lengths to disrepute, with good reason, Carlos Menem. The charismatic leader who implemented these privatizations reforms. However, while privatization usually means smaller size, scope, and financial obligation of government this documentary goes on to show how Menem achieved more dictatorial powers than the military dictators of the 60's and 70's. So a more powerful central government in bed and profiting from dealings with big businesses at the expense of the nation's resources. Basically that is the definition of Fascism. To me, the real greatness of this documentary is exposing that Fascism is a result of rampant capitalism is a total farce. Here is laid out a play by play of how a fascist government comes to power and operates and the fact that far right is really far left. As a freedom loving person I am often offered criticism from our "left wing" in the form of basically being called a fascist. You know, "You just want profiteering companies to run rampant, unchecked?", "Look at what big business is doing to our nation!" Being in Real Estate I often hear comments about the big banks and how someone needs to keep an eye on them or how "speculators ruined real estate". I usually don't argue (unless it is someone I care about) as it has taken me years to understand what I do now. Pay attention to these points as you watch this video and I feel you will get 3x more out of it. If people are able to draw correlations between our economy and that of Argentina then we must worry that we correlate to the government which Menem's most closely resembles. That of the Nazi's, Franco and Mussolini.
Thank You
So well explained
"...the real greatness of this documentary is exposing that Fascism is a result of rampant capitalism is a total farce.
Here is laid out a play by play of how a fascist government comes to power and operates
and the fact that far right is really far left."
Thanks for the nice
Thanks for the nice comment!!
In order for this to happen ..
People have to first lose their moral compass so that they no longer hold themselves or their representatives up to a high standard. For a great while, politicians are able to behave in ways that a truly moral society would not tolerate as the corruption grows beneath the surface.
God has booby trapped the world ... either we follow His commandments or we get what we deserve.
Yerba Mate
I would rather fight than switch
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
woo hoo!
thanks for posting
the parallels are chilling.
Watch it and ...
learn. I saw it sometime ago, burned it and passed it around. I need to resurrect it and pass it out again as a wake up call about what can happen here if we don't start understanding the reality of what is going on now and contrasting our same and similar-type circumstances against what happened in Argentina!
They took to the streets
because they could not recall their votes!
The republican form of government is a failure. Elections are simply a means to divide and conquer.
Politicians should only have power according to the number of people who vote for them. No more elections. No more terms of office. Let the people give their votes to their own representatives! Let the people recall their votes whenever they so choose!
great video, highly
great video, highly recommended.
This explains alot
I lived in Argentina for a few years after the 2001 economic collapse and when the inflation hit. Not as bad as 1989 but It was still pretty bad compared to anything this young north american had seen.
I remember walking the streets and seeing store owners patrolling outside their boarded up shops with shot guns in case the looting started up again. Cars burning. People strung out in the streets starving. Kids begging for change. Short on funds myself I tried to use an ATM at a bank like the ones seen in the video. A security guard sounded an alarm and shut the gates when a huge angry mob came down the street. They locked the bank down and I was trapped inside not knowing what was going to happen. I could hear the people banging on the gate and yelling in outrage. Out in the intersections baracaded with tree branches and burning tires you could see the intense eyes of the betrayed. The look of anger and desperation of a once proud people pushed over the edge. They took to the streets but were fighting in vain. Only God could hear their petitions because the banks and the government would not. People were starving to death. Whole families were living on 150 pesos of government welfare because there were no jobs.(150pesos=$50 dollars at the time with about the same purchasing power as $50 here. Can you feed your family on $50? pay rent, utilities, taxes, etc.) Trained doctors ended up driving taxis to get by. Men women and children had to take to the fields at $1 a day wages to merely survive. Argentina is no 3rd world country but it was starting to look like one. Things like that should not happen. It is a country so rich in resources it boggles the mind. The saying is you can drop a seed in Argentina and it will grow the soil is so fertile. Natural gas and mining are nearly limitless there.
What was going on? Why was this happening? At the time I didn't know. I assumed it was probably corrupt politicians or something, but I had no idea the extent. Not until an obscure Texas congressman awakened me to what is really going on in the world and now this video am i making the connection. How the bankers in collusion with the government are running the show and causing all of this suffering. It keeps me up at night the thought of seeing once proud Americans taking to the streets in panic and desperation, starving to death and rioting because they missed the opportunities to change things when they had the chance. Stuck with the consequences of their apathy, and frighteningly having nothing left to lose when survival instincts kick in. Society falls into chaos.
Here's to hoping we have time to change things by 2010. You do not want to go through what they did in Argentina.
Thank you POQ
YOU've explained a lot. Thank you for taking the time to type out your perspective.
there's your reason Obama
there's your reason Obama may want to repeal the 2nd ammendment-Americans wont be banging pans!
"Ideas have consequences." Ron Paul
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
Paul on the IMF and Argentina
Just reading on this subject the other day and found this from Paul.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul17.html
On the other hand, Venezuela has ignored the IMF, WTO and World Bank and is called the anti-Argentina example. I was reading the book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast. I disagree with much of the economic analysis by Palast, but there is good insight into the US political manipulations of South America.
A Sneak Peak Of Obama's America ?
Paul Massey
Revolutionary Marketing
www.DotComWhat.com
Perhaps it would be even more appropriate to title it
"The Arrival Of The Greenspan/Bernanke Democracy"
Should we begin banging the kettles tonight at the stroke
of midnight to awaken the sleeping sheeple or shall we
wait until our children are starving in the streets?
Time to escape from this insanity !
Paul Massey
Revolutionary Marketing
www.DotComWhat.com
Additional Info
BrockTownsend
http://www.namsouth.com/
The bottom two links will give more information on this once you view all 12 videos, which I highly recommend.
http://www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2477&highlight=argen...
"Lying politicians, massive debt, corrupt banks…..I don’t want to be alarmist but the governmental corruption that set Argentina’s collapse in motion appears shockingly similar to what is going on here in the USA."
"You can read more about the situation in Argentina and the types of problems that occur during a collapse here:
(Tips on making it through. BT)
Lessons from Argentina's economic collapse
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html
The author’s blog which is updated regularly can be found here:
(Almost like a Survival manual. BT)
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
During times like these, it is important to be positive, and take time to enjoy life and our loved ones. I believe it is also prudent to make plans for possible problems.
Chance favors the prepared!"
BrockTownsend
http://www.namsouth.com/
I've been saying for years...
...that what has happened here for the last 3 decades was just a scale model of what they had planned for the States.
Little by little you see that the provoked situations, the manufactured crisis, the measures and remedies that were tested on us, Argentine guinea pigs, had a clear purpose: foresee and correct, improve and perfect, the tactics, plans, speeches and steps to follow to subdue the people, to convince them of their insignificance, of their helplessness, and condition them for servitude.
I am truly convinced that we were used to find out how much people would put up with without revolting.
This documentary is very good, but fails to point out a very important aspect of the economic collapse: it was not the first one and it will not be the last one. Argentina is in, what we call, a 10 year cycle. Every ten years, since the 70s, when our military dictatorship leaders were proud members of the School of the Americas, we've had an economic crisis with the same characteristics; the country seems to be improving, getting richer, there's stability for 5/6 years and steady growth...
And then, out of the blue, things start to get suddenly bad, emergency measures are taken without much explanation, banks start withholding funds, the State starts appropriating public funds (remember a couple months ago the 401k deal? Well, we did it first hehe) and just like that, on the 9th or 10th year, all the wealth is gone to foreign institutions. ALWAYS. This is not a theory of mine, this has systematically happened here and I was "fortunate" to witness it, to suffer this, both in '89 and in '01...
My humble advice would be: read up on the measures that were, and are, taken in Argentina....at least you'll be prepared for what's in store for you.
As for myself, I know that by the end of this year I should not have more than 20 pesos in the bank or they will be gone again. I know that I have to stock up on goods while my money is worth something so when hyperinflation hits again, the shortage of supplies won't affect me as much.
In a way, Argentinians are lucky I guess... we're already prepared for these kind of things...but I'm afraid it can always get worse.
Thank you as well..
Just had a phone call about it and now I don't have to find it... ;)
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Thanks!
I was hoping to find this tonight, based on keiser's recommendation.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
watched it all thanks
interesting how the argentina collapse was orchestrated by a mixture of capitalism and socialism. the same bankers running the us used capitalism to buy up all the nationally sensitive(national security) projects and corporations. then they used the little socialism they had to get corporate welfare.
thats why i dont dwelve into philosophical grounds or advocate Utopian systems and pipe dreams. i believe all it takes is a good president whos aware of whats happening like Dr Paul. As much as I hate to say it Ron Paul would even make a good dictator. Look at King Arthur and what he did to camelot(if the legend was true) and historically biblicaly you have David and Solomon who were technically dictators who ruled with justice and peace
bookmarked for later
thank you!