Are "9/11 truthers" simply left/right-wing saboteurs trying to marginalize the RP movement?
I know I'm going to get some blue-on-blue fire here but this is an honest question, one where we should discuss the possibility.
First, we, Ron Paul/liberty supporters, have a populist movement. We support liberty, freedoms, limited government and basically everything the US Constitution claims to protect.
80% of the American people don't support these illegal bailouts for banks and big business. Most American's don't believe in many of the far-left or right propaganda. We want to be left alone to our own lives. However, the media, special interests, and both political parties do everything in their power to marginalize third-parties.
Why wouldn't these same groups, opposed to third-parties, infiltrate their operatives to cause in-fighting and promote topics that have little to do with the politics of the movement.
The topic of this post is based in collectivism
All people are individuals
www.Umake.it - The online resource for the Hand Made Society
1 week and 1 lousy day......
1 week and 1 lousy day...... says it all jason.. either your a plant or your some stooge troll on here with more then 1 screen name.. which is it?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
9-11 Truthers, much like the Beck haters...
... only true funtion on THIS formum is to distract, devide and marginalise. All counter-productive. I remember back during the primaries when I got a good friend to go to a sign waving with me. As we reached the location we were immediately approached by a hand full of "truthers" who satred in on us. As fast as I could, but unfortunately not fast enough, I took my friend to the ooposite corner to do our thing waving banners etc. I tried to laugh the "truthers" off as the retarded cousins that the family didn't ever talk about, and pleaded w/ him not to let them have any impact on his opinion of Dr. Paul. I informed him that Dr. Paul has many times, in interviews, debtaes etc., distanced himself from these people. I explained that Dr. Paul believes 9-11 was a result of "Blowback" from our foreign policy over the last 50 plus years. It seemed to satisfy him, but here's the rub. Everytime my friend was asked about that day by others, it was the "Nutty 9-11 Truthers" that were always the focus of his story. No telling how many of our mutaul friends turned the other way from Dr. Paul after my friend shared his story. I am a huge fan of Ron Pauls', but like Glenn Beck, many of his followers scare me. Then again, most irrational people do..and YOU KNOW who you are.
The message of "Liberty" spreads despite many of you!
I don't go to any extreme
I don't go to any extreme on the 9/11 issue, after all, I wasn't there to observe for myself what happened. But, I have looked somewhat in depth to both sides of the story so I have concluded that there is definitely reason to question the events that occurred that day.
Now, where the 9/11 truthers fit in the liberty movement; I would say that what both have in common is a yearning for more transparency in govt. If things were transparent in the whole matter, which obviously they weren't, then the people could really know that nothing suspicious happened that day. Otherwise, just as with the Kennedy Assassination or Roswell, people inherently ask questions and either reveal part of the truth or stretch the story into something that is nothing like the truth. I think we should embrace the idea that these questions should be entertained and dealt with, instead of just saying one side is loony.
If we don't change our direction, we're likely to end up where we are headed.
If we don't change our direction, we're likely to end up where we are headed.
Wow, have you read what you wrote?
Sounds like something vomited up on the troll express.
Dr Paul is a conspiracy theorist with many theories like those about the Fed and expanded Wars.
Even Sean Hannity and Dick Morris said Conspiracy Theorists were right on his show.
Are you telling me that you're really such an insane Neocon that you're behind Sean "3rd party" Hannity and Dick Morris on the ball?
You owe everyone a deep and sincere apology for this nutcase post.
============================
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
Glen Beck -- RP Supporters are "Domestic Terrorists":
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86000
============================
Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643
Oh yes.
we should all do just like Captcorona, Flame, Horatius, and the other trolls, and capitulate to the Neocons forthwith, so that they don't view us as a threat to their domination along with their comrades the Democrats.
What a bunch of infiltrators.
To be irrational
Is to not question the chain of events related to 9/11.
Other than that, let each individual spread the word of liberty in his or her manner. Given the tone of your story, I can safely say I would NOT be likely to work closely with you to spread my personal message, yet I remain confident we can still be on the same team and spread the word of liberty and restoring the Constitution in our own ways.
BTW, I have certainly opened numerous folks' eyes to Ron Paul, the liberty movement, Austrian Economics, the Constitutional Republic, etc. and, yes, I highly question the 9/11 story. I don't know what you conceive a "truther" to be, but you may have argued with me as one one day and yet you would likely have no idea that I was one another day in another conversation.
A good thing people ought to make sure they focus on is the idea of context. Knowing when to say when, so to speak.
_________________________________
My liberty-minded home base of thought:
www.ponderthis.net
_________________________________
Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
I can not speak for everyone
But I do not believe the government and corporate lies about 9/11 and I did everything I could to help Ron Paul's campaign. Everyday I try to wake people up to the corruption of the system, the fed, the importance of the constitution, sound economics, etc. This is not an attack on the author, but I do not get those in the patriot movement that still believe the government version of events on 9/11. I mean politicians lie to us everyday about everything!! You know they lied about Iraq and the true purpose of the Patriot acts. You know they lie to us about the Fed and interest rates and the banking system! You know that our government is corrupt! If you know some history you know that corrupt governments act out on their people- that is the norm not the exception. Why is it then, that you allow yourself to be convinced that the laws of physics did not exist on that day, that Al Qaeda is fighting our government even though it was CREATED BY THE CIA by this same government???!!! Wake up.
We want the same thing- freedom, and we agree on a proper form of government to ensure this freedom. The real danger is that this movement will be sabotaged by the agents of those in power and that it will be led astray, and blame will be diverted from those truly responsible. The truthers are the conscience of this movement.
Agreed
These issues do nothing to help the real problem which is the control of our government by the people with the money, bankers, Feds, IRS, etc.
As for the tea parties, there will be no infiltration so long as there is security and cameras rolling, which there will be plenty of on the 15th.
My "vicious truther attack"...
Actually they do a lot to help. You might be unable to grasp how so but not due to lack of reasoning provided by those seeking the truth. Many threads many posts and outlined how and in what ways it helps.
Unfortunately we can not force people to read and acknowledge facts.
As to the tea parties not being infiltraited as you assume, cameras rolling at many other events did not prevent agents with hoods and masks from Infiltraiting and causing some of them to go sour.
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
Be prepared for abuse and intimidation
Be prepared for abuse and intimidation, Jane. When you start speaking common sense here you will tend to get attacked pretty viciously by these truthers.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
as to you
You and a few others have earned a hundred times over any retalitory vemon spat in your direction.
The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare
I dont think so, but....
I do think that we need to push harder on more mainstream issues that we can change. If you dont remember, this is one of the points that the media used to out Dr. Paul in the Debates. Alot of potential supporters get turned off because this is what they hear about the RP movement. I understand that truthers could be right and i dont discount that this kind of corruption exhists but we need to pick our battles. The people who are predisposed to looking closer at 9/11 will find their way there without alot of pressure.
For example...
The Morman faith doesnt approach people with the message "Hey, guess what, we babtise young people in our church in the name of a dead person so that that deceased will have a chance to enter heaven, oh and we belive Jesus visited the Native americans in Ghost form" No, they approach them with much milder, easier issues because the public cant accept the extreme stuff first.
Im not saying that we need to be deceptive about our beliefs but i do think we need to be smarter about how we set goals to further this movement as a whole.
As I see it, those that
As I see it, those that believe in "9/11 truth" tend to be suspicious of those that do not(and vice-versa). I, myself, believe that the official version of the events are pretty much a physical impossibility. Does this mean that I'm a conspiracy theorist? Well... sorta... Until I see documentation/written confession/whistleblowers/video evidence of an actual conspiracy i.e. find out the specific individuals involved in the action then it will not longer be a hypothesis but a genuine theory. (BTW - off topic but conspiracy theory is a misnomer it should called a "conspiracy hypothesis")
Besides all this, the only beliefs that will derail the liberty movement are those which are antithetical to liberty. In other words, ideologies which promote collectivism etc...
We don't have to agree on everything - debate is healthy. Just because someone on this board does not like your view on something should not be taken as a sign of enmity. I'm just sick of people assuming that their "way" is the only right way. Look in the end we're all on the same side whether or not we disagree on certain specific issues. The only people on this board we can't trust are those espousing false ideologies.
"My theories explain, but cannot slow the decline of a great civilization. I set out to be a reformer, but only became the historian of decline."
- Ludwig Von Mises
"My theories explain, but cannot slow the decline of a great civilization. I set out to be a reformer, but only became the historian of decline."
- Ludwig Von Mises
Boxes
I think it would be unwise to try to put everyone in a box. I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, and so i know that this truther is not a right/left wing saboteur.
But we do need to stay focused on fighting the banking system. People WILL realize the truth about 9/11. There's no stopping that.
Ron Paul 2012
www.josiahgarber.com/blog
www.heirloomgardenpro.com
www.mennonitesforronpaul.com
Warriorjason?
I hope your not here to come and lead us, to tell us what to do and what not to do on this site. There are plenty of guidelines enough already. Let people be free to discuss ideas. It is a free market here at DailyPaul. If to much crap gets posted someone eventually posts something of interest. Eventually a post comes along that people get participate until they get filled up. Don't worry, I've been here from the beginning and it goes in waves. In the end it will all work out.
grant
obviously you have some learning to do..
don't skip to walking when you haven't crawled through the muck yet. Been around a week, and spouting full support of the gubment 9/11 "truth"...sounds like you need some study time.
I think you can easily
make the case that Ron Paul might have hijacked the 9.11 truth movement.
Alex Jones & We are Change pushed him, very hard as a 9.11 truth candidate.
I'm sure I'm going to get beaten up for this too...
I'm also a relative newbie (6 weeks or something). I was attracted to this movement because well, Dr. Paul has an elegantly simple message that just might work. Is it so crazy to want our government to respect the Constitution and base our economy on principles of sound money? Worked in the times of Jefferson--why not now?
I don't know that these "truthers" are actually saboteurs. Perhaps some think that their point supports RP's position of nonintervention in foreign policy--though I admit I don't often read posts like this. At best, this sort of stuff--the truthers, the ones looking for Obama's birth certificate, the believers in the Reptilians--muddy the waters and do possibly scare off a number of people who came here to check us out. The worst posts of this type (go to the search box and type in "please don't riot") spread cynicism, inaction, and possibly even discourage dissent.
I also try in my small way to focus on what IS possible and what can be done. I've also tried to keep the focus on legislation that we should care about. I am frustrated when I do research on these things, take the time to post, and watch my thread disappear into obscurityland within five minutes. As I don't think my efforts here are going to make much of a difference, I've decided to show up to a C4L meeting in my area and offer my services. But I guess I should keep my mouth closed about truthers and the Reptilians...
Congratulations on a post that is getting comments! And please don't go away...if you are ever feeling discouraged here on the DP, please email me through C4L. I believe there's a place here for folks like us too.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
Amen
Eric Hoffer
http://gplus.to/jamesrmoore
Good for you!
It is because of people like you that I continue to hang out and post here.
Your observations about the impression of the freedom movement that new people get by sampling the content of posts on this website are spot on.
There seem to be an endless stream of posts about issues that are tangential at best and often gratuitously divisive and hurtful.
I would like to think that the posters are all simply overly-enthusiastic True Believers that are oblivious to the detrimental effects of their tangents.
However, whenever I attempt to remind them of our shared goals and core message I get flamed for suppressing their "rights".
Interestingly, the posters who cry the loudest about "freedom of speech" seem to be the worst offenders.
Could it be that they really do NOT share our common goals?
Hmmmm.
******************************
Natural Law and Natural Rights
http://jim.com/rights.html
******************************
******************************
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
good post, no use
It's disgusting. I posted another post earlier about the up coming Tea Party Protests, and how the Huffington Post is trying to recruit operatives to infiltrate, disrupt and report the grass roots efforts.
I even posted their contact information in an attempt to thwart these efforts. No one cares. They think discussing thermite and theories are more important than action.
_______________________________________________________
It is not the journalist that protects our Freedom of Speech, it is the Warrior.
The Voice of Warriors
______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
If you have such an issue on this topic being discussed...
then why did you post it in the first place?
And as for your ~action~, what are you to do, honestly? Are you going to inflitrate the HuffPo in an attempt to slant thier eventual article to be favorable to the movement? What is your endgame with this action, what will the results be?
The thought that civilian reporters are now operatives to infiltrate, disrupt and report the grass roots efforts. sounds kinda like a conspiracy theory to me anyways... any proof that ~leftist extremists~ are what this is really all about? Because if you take it at face value, then they are recruiting civilian reporters... which they do all the time. This from someone who takes 911 at face value? Why the difference on this topic?
So you are really trying to tell me that your ~action~, in a best-case scenario, may not make us look AS bad in a paper that is going to write thier article any damn way they want to anyways.
Or is your real ~action~ what you are doing in the first place? Grouping truthers from Ron Paul people, marginalizing the smaller group and then talking about it as much as you can, as I told you in my first reply to your OP?
If you are so disgusted about what some of us are doing, then why not ignore it and get to something productive that YOU can do? You are not tied to your chair there, being forced to view topics. You have also not been elected to tell us what to do in the first place, or judge what we discuss. Debate it, sure... but then you'd have to bring a viewpoint to the table as well and we all know that you can't do that.
Or you could just delete this topic/thread, but you wouldn't do that.. it might take the limelight off of you...lol
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Maybe you are the saboteur.
Maybe you are the saboteur. Talk about conspiracy theories.
“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” -George Bernard Shaw
Not me
I'm a Truther now. I watched my first video of the WTC 7 collapse just a few short months ago. I understand the science. The latest study identifying the thermitic material in the WTC dust clinched it for me. Many thanks to the Truthers and the Daily Paul for making the information available.
On the other hand, I've been supporting Ron Paul for more than 20 years. I voted for him in 1988. I've been a part of the Freedom Movement for approximately 25 years.
Freedom, Prosperity and Peace
Freedom, Prosperity and Peace
Peer reviewed scientific evidence proving explosives use on 9/11
This was just published, It proves that explosives were used on 9/11.
Everyone should read, this is the loaded smoking gun.
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/000...
Best
Sigh
You're jumping that smoking gun, it merely reports that the nano particles were there which COULD have been from thermite. It does not in fact prove thermite as thermite would have left LARGER particulates as well as a higher flash point. The theory proposed, which has yet to even be LOOKED at, is that it's a new brand of nanothermite, of which they have yet to do any comparisons whatsoever.
Again, the new theory will need evidence before it "proves" anything, except that aluminum and iron oxide nanoparticles were present.
Eric Hoffer
http://gplus.to/jamesrmoore
Moron.
Nano-thermite.. It is proven to be military grade and 4 cross refrenced test samples were analyzed in the dust that showed it was present.
The site it was peer reviewed on isn't some bubble gum machine where you put 25 cents in and expect a peer reviewed journal. no it has to stand up to scientific analysis.
Please cease the bullshit disinfo.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
.
(why is there still no 'delete'-option? jeez)
truth liberate
Reason for post
Look at the reaction this caused. There are multiple other topics which we could use our efforts on. I don't believe the governments whole story, nor do I believe in some grand conspiracy by Haliburton, Israel or (insert name).
My point to this was that there is not a damn thing that can be done about this at the moment. We need to look away from these distractions (lack of better word), and focus our efforts on what we can do.
We can push legislation like HR 1207.
We can educate people on the liberty/ RP movement.
We can etc.
_______________________________________________________
It is not the journalist that protects our Freedom of Speech, it is the Warrior.
The Voice of Warriors
______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."