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Enough of the Fair Tax Already

The Fair Tax is a gimmick. Granted, it is the most efficient and “fair” way to collect taxes, but that is assuming that collecting the taxes is legal in the first place! What the fair tax does is to make it easier for the government to collect the taxes, it doesn't stop the reckless spending or the illegal confiscation of our hard earned tax dollars.

Since we cannot even collect enough taxes right now to cover what the government spends, the savings from the fair tax would just go toward paying for the massive deficit!

It is annoying seeing the faux conservatives hijack the tea party message with the Fair Tax. It does NOTHING as far as reducing the size and mission of the federal government or returning the country to its true republican form of government.

It doesn’t matter how you collect the taxes since it is illegal and morally wrong to forcibly take one person's property and give it to someone else. DO NOT ALLOW THE NEOCONS TO DILUTE OUR MESSAGE WITH THE FAIR TAX. I can see it now, Obama in his great spirit of bipartisanship, implements the Fair Tax and becomes the most popular president ever, while faux conservatives move on with their pathetic lives thinking they actually accomplished something, when in reality they are still slaves to the Federal Government, but they are happy because they no longer have to fill out those complicated tax forms.

Pathetic, stick with principles.

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The FairTax does nothing to tame the federal leviathan

Although the FairTax would eliminate the filing of all individual tax returns, the FairTax turns every business into a tax collector. Every small service business and every Internet business that does not currently collect state sales taxes will have to collect taxes for the federal government. Every doctor will now have to charge sales tax on his services. Where will this end?

The claim that the IRS will be eliminated under the FairTax is bogus. Although the national sales tax will be collected by the states from retailers, it is still a national sales tax, and as such, its collection will have to be overseen by some agency of the federal government. Just because the bureaucracy will no longer be called the IRS doesn't mean that it will be eliminated.

The FairTax does nothing to tame the federal leviathan. The solution is nothing less than a drastic reduction or wholesale elimination of its revenue source. What is fair about allowing the government to confiscate 23 percent of the value of every new good and service? FairTax proponents may call it necessary legislation, but I call it highway robbery.

--Laurence M. Vance

The "Fair Tax" is a few different things, none of them good.

First, the "Fair Tax" is a ruse. They don't plan to abolish the Income Tax, nor abolish the IRS.
And then we'll have 2 income taxes to pay.

Second, they need to do something like this, because they know that they have insurmountable debt to pay, and it's politically dangerous to start talking about tax increases. So, they are going to do the "DC Two-Step" and shuffle the cards around like this, so that it takes a while to figure out what's all going on, and by then we'll all be up to our necks in tax.

Third, it's a way to undermine REAL tax reform, which would be to ELIMINATE income taxes totally, and disband the IRS permanently.
It's a way to co-opt the attention away from real reformers.

And fourth, it extends the time-frame of the "debate" so that nothing gets done, for as long as they can delay things, so that they can continue to rape us with their Income Tax System, and dominate us with tyrannical IRS activity.

I would never support the

I would never support the fair tax, it would make it that much easier for the tax rates to increase overnight, and that much easier to starve people quickly. Its a trick.

Good points

The return to minimal tariffs on imports, and a drastically reduced federal government should be the patriot movement's goals; not a watered down version of tax slavery.

"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."

Taxes are, by definition, unfair...

Like the fake 'war on drugs', the 'war on bad government' needs to attack the money.

Take the money out of the drug war and the violence goes away.

Take the money out of the government and the corruption and lavish spending goes away.

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

Income Tax Question

I have read and watched all I can about how the income tax is unconstitutional or how there isn't any law that makes us pay income tax... but when i look into it the constitution and the court rulings as very clear that the Gov can tax us anyway they want....

Im looking for info that can clear this up for me, why do we not have to pay and why is the constitution not valid on this point?

It is not unconstitutional, it is misapplied, and the congress

and the courts rarely do anything about it. There is no Direct Tax legislation on the books. The income tax on the books as passed by congress is an Indirect Tax or better understood as an Excise Tax. That means if you engage in a taxable activity the income generated by that activity is subject to the tax.

These links will make this point perfectly clear:


The fun part is figuring out how to translate this to your 1040 form on tax day, thats where "Cracking the Code" at www.Losthorizions.com comes in to save the day.

Oh and it helps to be able to browse the IRC to check what the regulations actually say, which you can do by going here:


Good luck, it takes a year to become confident with what you learn from all this to apply it to your taxes next year.

I would support the fair tax iff:

1. it eliminates the Federal Income Tax
2. it eliminates Medicare/Social security taxes
3. it doesn't raise fuel prices
4. used items aren't taxed
5. people are given a "prebate", so if they don't spend much, they won't have to pay anything.

Then, if people don't like the taxes, they can avoid them.

Since you know that none of your demands will be met...

...I'll put you down for a "NO".

Seriously, if you could trust anyone in government (other than the boss) we wouldn't have to even consider a 'fair tax' plan.

Once they get their hand in the till, all bets are off.

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

Where's Ralph Nader?

Fair tax was a Nader issue in 2000 http://books.google.com/books?id=fjfT4M-_cW4C&dq=fair+tax+ra...

Long history of "fair tax" (tax reform) on the left (1944) http://www.progress.org/geonomy/129.html

Interesting to see the neocons pick up where the Democrats left the "extreme" left RE: taxes. Notice how the batte;le between faor tax and carbon tax is over. Carbon tax won.

Neocons are assuring the GOP will die, Democrats are labing GOP who are not neocons, "terrorists" and MSM is looking for blood (and it's not Bush's).

While I'm not a fan of any tax...

A group of activists who want to abolish the IRS and repeal the 16th Amendment = people I can get along with, even if I dont exactly like what they propose replacing the income tax with.

These people are very receptive to calls for ending the Federal Reserve System - I advocate networking with them, they are not our enemy.

If our two camps can come together on ending the IRS, the 16th Amendement, and the Fed.... even if we did end up with a national sales tax (which you could get around by buying used, living simply, growing your own...etc) I'd say we'd be alot better off than staying in our own camps and not talking to each other and getting none of either groups goals met.....

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I agree with Zak

while far from perfect, the Fairtax is a LOT better than what we have now. It's the only plan that has any steam behind it, so if it fails we're doomed to business as usual for decades.

I believe it will eliminate the IRS, which holds you guilty until proven innocent, and if nothing else is accomplished, this alone is enough for me.

Fossils Rock!

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

I can go for most of what you are saying,

but in my neck of the woods (the heart of FairTax crap), it is not at all accurate to describe supporters of the FairTax as "very receptive to calls for ending the Federal Reserve System." Most don't have any idea of what the Federal Reserve is, except that it performs the menial service of printing our dollars. The ones that do know the particulars about the Federal Reserve *vigorously* defend it and laud its oversight and care with the money supply.

I'm also in the heart of

I'm also in the heart of FairTax land (John Linder is my congressman). I support the FairTax as a big improvement over our current system. I am disappointed that Linder hasn't cosponsored HR1207 even though all of the other six Republican congressmen here in Georgia have cosponsored it.

He would never go for the fair tax...

Do you really think Obama would allow the rich and the poor to be taxed at the same rate? Never going to happen.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

-Alexis de Tocqueville

The poor aren't taxed as much as the rich,

are they? Aren't the poor eligible for rebates or something?
Fossils Rock!

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

Couldn't agree more!

NO tax is a fair tax!!!!!

This morning

on Coast to Coast, George Norry had some guy on advocating the Fair Tax. He was saying they have like 55 or so co-sponsers for HR 25? The Fair Tax Bill, one democrat. And it had this "huge" grassroots following. George Norry asked him, what does Ron Paul think of this? This guy replied that Ron Paul was all for it and again reiterated that it had these co-sponsers making it sound like Ron Paul was one. I said I don't think so. He went on and on about Huckabee and how he supported it. A caller stated Ron Paul was for abolishing the Income Tax and replacing it with nothing and would the monies from the Fair Tax go to the Central Bankers? The guy just used double speak and never answered the question. I thought it was great that George Norry asked what Ron Paul thought!!

that IS great, thanks for

that IS great, thanks for the update!

Ventura 2012

Couldn't agree more

Anything that replaces the federal income tax is as fraudulent as the federal income tax. It must be abolished and replaced with nothing!

fair tax is a fraud


There is only one word to describe the fact that the federal government now spends almost $3 trillion a year: obscene. At least 90 percent of what the federal government spends is unconstitutional, wasteful, or against the limited-government principles of the Founders. The only thing the FairTax does is change the way the state confiscates the wealth of its citizens. As Congressman Ron Paul says: "The real issue is total spending by government, not tax reform."

woo hoo!

The hell with the fair tax.

I want NO tax!

Ron Paul for POTUS 2012

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NO tax is the only FAIR tax!

NO tax is the only FAIR tax!

Is it pig season yet?