Did we just win a battle and lose the war?
I am really, really wrestling with my role in this movement. I went to the TEA Party, and I went to the "Patriot's Day" event today, and I am not liking what I am seeing. Not at all.
Let me give you the perspective of a very sweet little optimist who honestly believes she is waking people up every day when she sells them cell phone service. Maybe she is, I can't know. My point is she is a bubbly, dedicated Liberty lover, but it is as if she and I attended 2 different events.
A person asked about our opinion on the parties, and here was her reply (with names removed)
"I got a GREAT feeling from the Tea Parties, Thanks to (the person) who made the news saying "This rally CANNOT be all you do, or we are DOOMED"! Here is a link to the Boise Tea Party. There was a weird feeling, in that, it was almost ALL Republican speakers, but no NEOCON rhetoric....."
My reply to him:
(She) is a sweet, sweet lady, and maybe her perspective is the correct one. Let me offer the skeptic's view though, since you asked. I am not sharing this with her, she has a stated preference that her bubbles be left intact (like most Americans.)
As (she) noted, most of the speakers were Republicans. They stayed off the topic of war, but that is NOT acceptable to me. If we want to fix the money problem, how about we start with JUST COME HOME? Anyway, they avoided all controversial topics. They avoided the name "Ron Paul" as if they never heard of him. They talked about second amendment rights over and over and over. Most mentioned a belief that this needs to be a Christian nation, which is not really good news to a non-Christian.
Strangest of all, to my mind, was the total absence of any voices from the freedom movement. Not just me, I know everyone is afraid to let me speak, but NO ONE who did anything in the Ron Paul campaign was invited to speak, even people who have moved on to wonderful liberty projects. (A person) is the state coordinator for "We The People" and even he was not invited to speak.
To have these tea parties credited to Rick Santelli pretty well sums it up for me. They were a media event. CNN and FOX get to pretend they are on opposite sides now, but some of us have to stay awake and REMEMBER anyone on TV is an ACTOR. FOX is not our ally, nor is Glen Beck. They are tools, we must use them to the best of our ability, but they are diverting energy away from the real issues: The bankster cartel moves forward with their new SDR global elite currency and new global banking agency in the IMF.
The TEA Party did not mention ending or auditing the Fed, or the questionable circumstances under which the Fed and IRS came into being, etc.
Mark and I came away feeling like we had poured all that effort into Liberty only to be swept away by the media. I hope Lori is right, but I think it was a Neocon coup. They took all those really angry people, let them walk around downtown and get on TV, and now they are all back at work earning FRNs and tithing to the Rothschilds.
Have a good one-
Now today, I attend another "Liberty" event where a lot of 2nd amendment talk used to get applause, many heartwarming little tales of family war heroes and war heroes of the Revolution were told... Not one word was uttered that I would say was even "edgy." Not one speaker was invited who did not express a desire to see this be a Christian nation, and it really is disconcerting for non-Christians to realize that we are fighting for the liberty of the Christians who, if we win, will oppress us. So it goes.
But my heart is not in this any more. When I believed I was fighting for MY liberty, I fought like hell. But I have no path to liberty that I can see any more. The people who claimed they were allies were only allies so long as I was willing to take all the risks, make all the compromises, spend all the money, do all the door to door work, make all the phone calls...
This makes me feel a bit better:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/cooper/cooper14.html
At least I am not the only one who realized that we finally got some media coverage - yes, we won that battle. But they took our message and twisted it, and now they are using it to paint us as "extremists." In our desire to ever appear the peace lovers, we do not even object to being painted.
Now I see a March on Washington being called for the 4th of July. Another media hit, I am sure, but the politicians nor the banksters who we need to tar and feather will be out that day.
Where does one get a "tar and feather" permit, by the way?
Is there anyone who really believes a non-Christian has a place in this movement? I am about ready to resign my State Committee and County seats, kick back and be a hedonistic, self-indulgent shithead until it is over. This is the ONLY life I am sure I am getting, and I was truly ready to put it on the line for Liberty - yours, mine, even the sheeple - but I really don't see where I am gaining liberty for anyone, and I am SICK of the threats, back-stabbing, snide comments... and that is from my fellow Patriots. What comes out of the politicians is so disgusting I can literally hardly stand to be in the same room with most of them.
Bad day, maybe I am just on a rant - I am prone to them. Honestly though, I have really lost my sense of direction for this political game. I don't see a "win" in my future, no matter what happens, so I need to get every drop of joy out of the present that I can squeeze, right?
I wish FNC had kept their dirty hands out of this
originally this was an event held for Americans and was supposed to be about out of control spending from the federal government and the taxes associated with it
here in Des Moines our rally was very much what I expected it to be for a few hours and people were taking my C4L pamphlets from me, I would just walk up to a group and give one to one person and anyone interested would just ask me for it
a few hours into the event, one very christian guy went up there and couldn't mention a single topic without putting faith, god, or christianity into the mix and it made me sick
the next few speakers were almost the same and then they all started speaking out on the passing of the same sex marriage law that passed recently here and I'd had enough - the original message was completely ignored a few hours into it and hadn't been brought up in some time so I left
would I consider this a 'win' or a 'defeat'? no, neither. I'll judge an election as a 'win' or a 'defeat' but not a little tax day protest - if anything, this event has shown me that I have a lot of work ahead of me around here
That was a good rant
Although we don't always see eye to eye on things, I did enjoy your rant. I'm feeling the same general feelings you are expressing here. Is our movement being co-opted by neocons? Are they going to taint our ideology with a pro-interventionist message? I mean, the fact is we can't have every person at the movement agree with us 100%. We can't even agree here 100%.
I think we *can* ensure the future of this movement by making sure that the LEADERSHIP are made up of Ron Pauls and Austrians, and not idiot neocons. So even if some of the grunts who support us don't totally get it, at least the leadership can take this movement places. The grunts will eventually get the message if the leaders are giving them the right message.
I'm also disappointed that Ron Paul wasn't featured more heavily at these events. Did he make any speeches at them? I mean, the man singlehandedly woke up this movement. Why wasn't he given a larger platform at these events?
And did the Campaign For Liberty take full advantage of these rallies? They should have been there in force in my opinion.
Overall I'm glad these Tea Parties were a success, and I hope the summer will bring out even bigger ones.
We need a true Tea Party that is not called a Tea Party. Something original. Something unique. Something that captures the public imagination. And we need to use new tools like Youtube that can act like a lightening rod. The "Charlie Bit my Finger" video shows how pervasive Youtube can be. Almost 100 million views!
We also need a Rosa Parks moment. And we really need to provoke the government into doing something *simple* and *easy to understand* against us (doesn't require a calculator to understand) that will capture sympathy from the masses. These guys I see challenging cops at unconstitutional checkpoints seem like they are on the right track. We just need to refine that strategy a bit more.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
It's just another onion ring
the deeper you go into the wabbit whole, the more the illusions fall away and serendipty happens, and miracles too, for the Objectivists.
I have three chicks, going on a month old...
Lets start a Chicken Party and have our own coo?
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL
thank you so much I needed a good cackle.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Seeing you always brightens my day
;))
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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I think overall, the Tea Parties went well.
We just can't lay claim and copyright to the idea of Liberty.
Also, if you're upset about mainstream Republicans "horning in on our action" and "co-opting us", you probably have a legitimate gripe, but how can that not happen, if we pursue a strategy of 'infiltrating' the GOP, or working within it, instead of pursuing a Third Party approach? We are going to mix in with the Hannitys, the Limbaughs, the Becks, and the people who listen to them. It's inevitable and it's already happening now.
People like me who are third party advocates can talk and talk until their jaws turn blue, and isn't going to make any difference.
What we are seeing now is the third wave of modern GOP conservatism, on the heels of the Buckley/Goldwater wave of the 60s and the Reagan wave of the 80s. We are now a part of it.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I still agree with Ron Paul
I still agree with Ron Paul on taking over the GOP. The socialists did it back in the 1960s with the Democrat Party, and we can do the same thing with the Republican Party. Goldwater gave it a good shot, and it led to an *improvement* over the previous batch with Ronald Reagan, who at least had *some* understanding of freedom. Yes, they didn't understand that you need to cut spending too, but the rhetoric was great and he did push the economy to greater free market conditions. He was even one of Ron Paul's friends before he was elected and Ron Paul was one of only *four* congressman to support Ronald Reagan in 1976. So we can have positive change. We'll need some luck to to win this, such as getting a younger Ron Paul up there for the future of the movement.
All I can say is that Ron Paul is a smart man and we should listen to him.
Register as Republican and Vote for Ron Paul
According to Ayn Rand
"Letter of Ayn Rand", Barry Goldwater had sent Ayn a copy of "Conscious of a Conservative", where Ayn Rand rips barry Goldwater a new ass, tells him being a conservative is NOT a philosophy thus has NO conscious, and accusses him of inviting the "religious wackos" from the LBJ Democrats in TX, who she says, the FBI claimed only 2% could infiltrait and take over the GOP, so in summery Ayn Rand blames Barry Goldwater on inviting in and creating what MSM calss "The religipous right", and others call NEOCONS, who hide behind the religious right (punching bags is all they are).
Reagan was a Fed Res Bank Employee no different that Obama.. right, left, right left, they march us to pots and kettels. dogs and ponies, to a NWO.
CA has 156 electoral votes... w/o CA you have a third party, for MSM and Democrats to demonise and blame... suggesting to take over the GOP is like suggesting to reserect "The Invisable Man".. there will be a new party and it will be a globalist party brought t5o us by the IMF.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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Good post
We can direct this wave of patriotism if we are smart.
Audit the Fed!
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
you people
Are paranoid. Hand out DVD's. Get involed.
Instead of your game plan of run and hid in a revolution cave lets bring them the message. So what if they try to co-opt the movement.
In all reality they are sending the sheep to the wake-up callers.
They are on our turf now. Its only a matter of time before we feed the sheep so much information that they will in turn have to wake up to either the blue pill or red pill breaking point.
What are you patriots or cowards. Oh my feelings got hurt. Oh I can't take the abuse. Oh my vagina/penis hurts.
Harden the F&CK up!
Our turf. The enemy has walked onto our battlefield. They stand no chance.
The world looks upon us on vedio . . .
we had a tea party. What's a tea party? Oh, something to do with revolution or something. Lot's of people though. Heck, I saw the demonstrators in Rejavak, Iceland and Bancock and Athens, finally I see some Americans, lot's of them. Hmm, they are spread out over 500 cities! Almost a million people? They are totally united about something. Wonder if they want socialism or something to do with tea? Anyway, I'll check into this further, cuz it must be more than a cup of tea.'
My opinion, the tea parties amoung the best things that has happened. Networking with people is "the way".
A mass of people got together.
"Tea Party" is an awesome name and a historical event that can be researched easily.
And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”
this is happening
and it's not good.
FEDor we meet again
Trolling the forums as usual today king friday?
I am a Christian but I think
I am a Christian but I think it has no place in government, and as far as I'm concerned people like you need to be more active, vocal and visible in the movement. We're trying to reclaim the GOP in the name of small government from the neocons and theocrats. Let the theocrats go suck Mike "The Bible should be our Constitution" Huckabee until he's dry.
The 2 major ideologies are willing
to use any tactics to win power, including vile name-calling (racist or anti-christ depending on the side), wholesale lying, distortion, anything to discredit each other.
If we try to work with either side we cannot allow our message to be used and hijacked. The only way to avoid this is to ALWAYS keep the concept of peace/freedom as one. Freedom can bring people together only if peace/freedom is absolutely clear in the minds of those who hear our message.
I think we began making traction with the r3VOLution; it was a wholly positive movement and the message was pure. The 2-Party bosses squashed it as they do anything that challenges their power; but real people seemed to respond positively, though many did not join us because of the"wasted vote" myth, and the time it takes for a radical paradigm shift.
But I'm thinking that dropping the r3VOLution direction in favor of joining with more established types may have been premature. At this time the Establishment overwhelm us in any combined effort, and our message is twisted or lost entirely.
Opportunity Knocks
Consider "liberty" gatherings to be a focused market. Attendees are WILLING to "pretend" protest. In order to gain the most from them, each needs to be worked with a team of activists. For example, a team can distribute fliers which point the attendee in a better direction. Most importantly for a team though, is to shout down BS, the kind you mentioned. As soon as one of the republiCONs takes the mike, start in on 'em with any one of the prevalant liberty issues (100 mile immigrationl roadblocks? where'd that come from? Constitutional Money. "Audit the FED!", etc).
No, we can't accept this tepid crap, but we should turn that into an opportunity. Let them know the same ole BS ain't gonna work. This is a process and the battlefield morphs daily. It is important to remind ourselves we are in a battle which will go on for some time. We are seeing gains, and must do all we can to increase the pace of those gains.
Build a team in your area...that's the most important one thing any patriot can do.
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“It doesnot require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds”
-Sam Adams
Vote for Liberty...Buy Silver Eagles.
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90228
As noted in this thread, while Party goers cheered the canned speeches, I worked the crowd. The only other people working the crowd were the Tea Party organizers. .
I called a meeting of the "hard core" activists 30 minutes before the event to decide on 2 or 3 chants and crowd placement. One person showed up, I did not bother to try to set anything up.
I don't mean to sound contrary, but I really have been fighting this fight as hard and as smart as I can, and I am pretty smart and pretty tough.
Thanks for replying, though. Encouragement is encouragement, and I can use all I can find of it. Understand I am DEFINITELY the "loner" type except that I love my little family around me. It really is a stretch for me to attend these things, for me to have taken up going door to door and working crowds is no small feat.
Someone just posted a thread "Anyone feel like having a 9-11 fight?" lol! Maybe that is what I need to find my fighting form...
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
"Loners" make the best motivated warriors.
We just want to be left alone, and we are willing to fight in order to BE left alone.
The teams I speak of require no meetings, but have to be in place prior to events; it's not something you can accomplish 20 minutes prior. They can be organized on the net, with a small want ad, and by phone. Make it clear it is for doers only. 5 or 6 people can impact a gathering of 500 to 1000 easily.
Teams are also needed to pay a visit to "Representatives", and to visit the sherriff, as well as attend rallies and other meetings.
Loners who just do not want to go out into the public with the fight can still be more effective with better focused emails, phone, and faxes.
Vote for Liberty...Buy Silver Eagles.
They're setting us up for failure
They know how divisive things draped in religion are and that there will never be consensus within a movement that tries to use religion as a rallying call.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
I have the same issue.
To lump Christianity with the wishes of the founding fathers is a stretch, to say the least. Freedom of religion means freedom of ALL religions, yet christianity seems to be a big club that you are either a part of, or morally reprehensible and destined to hell.
Individual freedom is not expressed in christianity, that I can see. So technically christianity and individual freedoms are mutually exclusive.
Is there a christian out there that can explain to me how the two actually work together? Because I too am getting rather sick of working hard towards attaining a goal of personal freedom that seems to be headed towards a christian nation... that I would not be a part of because of my personal beliefs...lol
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
We are two steps away from
We are two steps away from mandatory microchips and a world dictatorship as far away from a Christian nation as you can get. I am not in favor of a theocracy or an oligarchy but "I prefer Christians" when i vote.
"We must re-take the Republican Party"-Ron Paul. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlqXq8YxQFQ
As far away as we can get?
I've one side of my family that didn't really like christianity because of the occasional pruning they did to our family tree via fire and torture.
The other side of my family doesn't trust a religion that would herd you into a church so that they could bar the doors and set you on fire, as has happened to us.
If you think that a world dictatorship and religion are polar opposites then you need to look a little deeper in your own rabbit hole.. they are one and the same. I bet the golden compass movie pissed you off as well... ;)
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
I will give it a try, Devon since you have asked
Yes, it certainly seems like today in widespread Christianity that individual freedom is indeed discouraged. But I don't believe that the Bible teaches that at all. In fact, Christ did away with most of the legalistic laws that the Jews had to follow. Yes, God in the Bible does have some rules, but they are the basic rules that most libertarians would also agree to: not to murder, not to steal, not to covet (like the elite do by wanting our labor/money) , to respect each other. These are all rules that protect the individual liberty, as I am sure you can agree. Yes, some of the rules have to do with faith towards God, but these rules are for believers, and believers are told in the Bible that we are to judge only other believers, and not the unbelievers.
I have been a Ron Paul supporter and liberty lover long before I heard of him, and never desired any kind of theocratic nation. ie: Christian nation.
I would consider myself a devout (and also very imperfect) Christian. I also wouldn't like to consider the non christians here or anywhere "morallly reprehensible and destined to hell", just because they aren't believers. Before I was a Christian I probably was morally reprehensible, so it would be terribly wrong for me to judge another, especially without knowing them. Although I admit I have thought that about quite a few politicians and elite people running this world.
I think the problem lies in that most Christians (most dp christians excepted), do not understand the scriptures and are wishing for a theocracy here in America. But, just as the founding fathers, some of whom were Christians, and some who were not, we should all want a free nation, with true freedom of religion. Think of the first Christians in Rome, I am sure they wanted a nation where there was freedom of religion.
Although it is true that true freedom cannot be sustained in a nation where the people aren't moral, and self governing (as Christians should be and as Christ taught), I don't believe that the govt should be governing morality.
Does this help any?
Thank you for that.
It got me doing some introspection....
I've no problem believing that though the majority of Americans are basically good people, 3/4 of them are idiots.
However, I've never really thought that although the majority of Christians are basically good people, 3/4 of them are idiots.
I'm grouping.. something I am against....lol
So thank you... I'll try to work on that personal flaw.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
You're welcome,
and join me in working on my flaws. As I hope we all are here on the daily paul.
Lots of flavors of "liberty"
I sense a tug-of-war as well. Within the movement..Or shall I say "movements". The good news is that there are extremists, and many flavors on the Socialist side of politics too.
"I don't endorse anything they say"
~Ron Paul On the 911 Truth movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k
We're finished with Socialism, moving into fascism
We've been socialists since the 30's. Many of you just realized when the new phase coming OUT of socialism started.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
I think we're sensing the
I think we're sensing the merger of Communism and Fascism, turning into one all powerful totalitarian movement. God have mercy on those of us who believe in liberty!
We need to take advantage
of their sense of "patriotism" while it is here. Those people are well trained sheep and all we have to do is get them excited about auditing the fed - even if half of them don't know what the hell a fed is.
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
"Tyrants fear nothing more than insubordination"
"It's just one big club... and WE ain't in it!"
I wish I could say something
I wish I could say something encouraging, but you have clearly thought your point through. Even worse, the point is valid and one I share. However, my ultimate position is different. You see, the way I see it, if I am going to be oppressed and held down regardless, I can't look at myself in the mirror unless I stand against it.
True victory would be wonderful, but being true to oneself is what really has meaning. You will be missed if you turn away, but your spot will be reserved. I promise you that.
Edited to add that I am a non christian.