Dr Paul on Secession
Submitted by sentinel on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 19:27
If at first you don't Secede.....Try Try again :)
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With all due respect
to Lew Rockwell, the governor of Texas, the state legislature, or the people of Texas, secession would be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Those who resisted would be imprisoned by whatever force necessary.
History or reason matters not. The court rules, period. The idea that secession is constitutional based on legal reasoning is laughable. Whatever the Supremes want is constitutional.
Only if the constitution is amended to make secession explicitly permitted is it possible for a state to withdraw from the union. Even then Washington D.C. would resist by one means or another.
I have to ask a question.
it has nothing to do with this thread. What is your take on 9/11.. I'm simply curious. What is your motivation to come here and speak for the first time..
What brought you to the Daily Paul in other words?
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
I have the greatest respect
for Ron Paul. Even those who disagree must admit he's an honest man. My position on 9-11 is pretty much that of Ron Paul, as I understand it. The concept of "blowback" is well founded. The way to deal with terrorists is not to create more by invading countries. Deal with them as members of a terrorist group, not by religion or nationality.
I posted last year, yesterday, and today. The topic is interesting.
Your optimism is
Your optimism is encouraging.
imunplugged,
I'm a realist, not a fan of blind optimism. Representative government become increasingly less possible as the population increases (now 300 million plus) without bound. Do we want to be China or India? That's why I support secession which fundamentally is just "consent of the governed".
State resolutions are just so much talk. It's time for real action.
You're missing the point.
He is saying that economically, soon it's really not going to matter what DC wants. Economically states will start dropping out of the Federal framework anyways.. they will have to.
And it is well within states rights to attempt secession, Texas vs White nonwithstanding. In perpetuity means until someone stops it.. it does not mean eternal.
I also like the crop of people lately that are pushing the whole ~resistance is futile~ meme in thier posts. The US military is not a infinte legion of supermen.. it is people like you and I in a uniform. As far as those who resisted being thrown into the brig, possibly... let's see when that happens instead of assuming that resistance is futile.
After all, the numbers are on the side of the people... the one thing that the powers that be are still scared shitless of.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
No, you're missing the point,
no state may secede unless the court agrees, meaning Washington D.C. The idea that the people are in charge is an illusion created by our rulers. What you or I think matters not.
And I don't believe resistance is futile. I do believe the idea that a state may unilaterally secede, and that D.C. will agree is naive. Again, only if the states acting together in a constitutional convention making secession explicity constitutional, is it possible.
Finally, if the U.S. military is ordered to take action against the people, they'll do what they're told. They've chosen to be cannon fodder, to give their lives to D.C. It hasn't been long since a poll in Iraq indicated the majority believed they were there because of Iraq's participation in 9-11.
Being ex-military, I don't have much confidence in their knowledge or judgment as a whole.
Ok...
let's see what happens when the dollar no longer works.. when the Fed cannot keep its promises. Do you honestly think that the population of a state is then going to just roll over when they can no longer feed themselves or thier children?
The Supreme Court's power is the illusion that you cling to. DC's agreement or disagreement really means nothing without the power they have to enforce it financially.
So time will tell on the actual when, but secession is going to happen whether ~DC~ wants it or not... it is a mathematical certainty.
As RP is pointing out....lol
As far as the US military taking action against Americans on American soil, we'll again see when that plays out. I think you sell your former brothers and sisters short tho.. there will not be even close to a 100% participation on THAT one. Even before you do the numbers... we are not 2 million Iraqi's. We are 298 million Americans. So wish em luck on those odds.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
From 1861-1865
Americans took actions against Americans. Brother fought brother, father fought son. As many as 650,000 Americans died. A comparable percentage today would be 6.5 million. We should never underestimate the ability of Washington D.C to get what they want by killing.
Yes they are.
and it shows cause they are trying thier damdest to control the message of truth. Especially with the minions they send here to try and confuse and divide at all cost.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Ron Has A Supreme Grasp of History
My study of history never got past Theodore Roosevelt. Never studied Wilson. Thanks that we have a guy to explain so succinctly historical events. I keep learning and learning from him. My fight began in 1974 even before Ron got into it and it's all in my book, "In the Teeth of The Wind". Starts from the time I left the U.S. Attorney's Office after quiting when I found out that the FBI murdered Fred Hampton. I saw the graft up live and it scared me. Ignorance is what allowed this grave worldwide peril that we are in. Most people don't even know that Thomas Jefferson had nothing to do with the writing of the Constitution and that neither he nor Patrick Henry liked it.Nor do they know that the unlucky Thomas Paine was buried in an unmarked Pauper's grave having earned little from the 900,000 copy publication of "Common Sense"--without which there would have been no Revolution.
Sheldon Waxman
sheldonw72@gmail.com
www.thelawyer.info
www.independentcontractor.info
Sheldon Waxman
sheldonw72@gmail.com
www.independentcontractor.info
www.thelawyer.info
Ron Paultopia
Ron Paul fans and libertarians from across the nation should all move to one state with the goal in mind to secede from the United States. Maybe I'll write a novel about that. But honestly, a serious threat of secession may wake up congress to how they've been trampling states and the ninth and tenth amendments for a long time now.
They already wrote that one:
They already wrote that one: its called the Book of Mormon! Head on over to the utopian republic of Deseret, callously renamed "Utah" by those interloping neocons of the nineteenth century. Honestly, why not go to New York and rename it "Old Lancaster"?
"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"
Very succinct statement, Dr. Paul...
Is Ron Paul EVER wrong???
I've never seen it.
Consistent, principled, eloquent, correct.
"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul
Chilling
Not if, but when the dollar crashes. That's right.
what a contrast .. i see
what a contrast .. i see only positive remarks on here and everyone who commented on the CNN post ... is so angry that people are even talking about the right to alter or abolish government that goes beyond it's enumerated powers
uhh.. if the US broke up,
uhh.. if the US broke up, they'd be a lot easier to pick off one by one by the global quango state and its economic hitmen.
the only reason china's able to still do what it wants and thumb its nose at the real communists is because she's managed to stay a billion and a half strong and is too big to be messed with.
America: 3/5 police state, excluding indians not taxed.
"Hopkins is #1 in medicine, Wharton is #1 in business, and Yale is #1 in law. The only thing that leaves Harvard is #1 in useless bureaucrats!"
The purpose of Sessession
is to break up the current unconstitutional US federal government and rebuild a real Constitutional federal republic. Since the US federal government has violated the Constitution, the contract between the States and the federal government should have been voided. So now we need to break it up and rebuild it again.
It is true that each State won't stand against the world, but we have to stand together on Constitutional grounds, and we don't want to stand together under a tyrannical centralized bureaucracy such as in China.
States secede, breaks up the US, call a Constitutional Convention again or form a new Entity based on the Constitution that we already have.
suuuuuuuuuure, we're gonna
suuuuuuuuuure, we're gonna just break up the US, then reconstitute it, and not do all sorts of nifty edits and revisions of the constitution at the behest of special interests?
HAHAHAHAHA!!! i want some of what you're smoking!
America: 3/5 police state, excluding indians not taxed.
"Hopkins is #1 in medicine, Wharton is #1 in business, and Yale is #1 in law. The only thing that leaves Harvard is #1 in useless bureaucrats!"
A billion and a half strong.
And how's that working out for the average chinese?
china takes her marching
china takes her marching orders from beijing, not the IMF and worldbank.
who do you take your marching orders from?
i know we're all angry at congress's irresponsibility, but consider for a moment if you get rid of the US government, you'd potentially be replacing it with something far worse.
our best strategy is to fix our current broken system, not do away with it! unless you'd like to take your marching orders from beijing as well?
America: 3/5 police state, excluding indians not taxed.
"Hopkins is #1 in medicine, Wharton is #1 in business, and Yale is #1 in law. The only thing that leaves Harvard is #1 in useless bureaucrats!"
Mostly agree
I don't think the U.S. ever 'seceded' from Great Britain, when we were a young nation. We went to war against them, The Declaration of Independence was a stab at asserting the rights of self-government, but the Crown didn't take sweetly to it and sent troops to keep the colonies as part of their Empire. So, yes, we 'tried' to secede, but it didn't work. We had to whip them before we gained our independence. It happened again in 1812, when the Brits, determined to wrest political control of the U.S., got beaten again. After that, they stayed home.
When the various southern states seceded from the Union, war resulted; but it wasn't over secession. It was about a variety of other factors, including slavery, and states' rights.
Interestingly, 'States' Rights' are becoming a viable topic now, as well as the idea of secession. Whether Rick Perry, or any other governor, will be successful in breaking the ties to the Federal Government remains to be seen. Frankly, I don't think it would happen: the U.S. would lose too much revenue, status and control. Still, it's an intriguing idea.
Thank you Dr. Paul
It was about 22 years ago (the last year I sent my oldest child to public school, my others have never been) when we went to a school play. At the beginning we were asked to stand for a recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. I just sat in my chair. My reasons were purely religious and I was not going to put my hand over my heart and pledge allegiance to a flag. Now I would like to thank Dr. Paul for educating me a little more on the subject of the socialist pledge.
I don't pledge allegiance to a flag either
"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the Republic which it defines."
That is all I say. It is not "One nation under God" is it a confederation of states under the Constitution (we are one species under the creator.) The "indivisible" part Dr. Paul covered nicely. As for "liberty and justice for all," well, when that is restored in my nation, it will be restored in my pledge.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
I pledge to the flag!
http://scottishkyle.blogspot.com/
http://scottishkyle.blogspot.com/
Dr. Paul seems to have an unlimited
fund of courage to express clear-thinking, original ideas. He sees the validity of secession as a peaceful solution to the deepening rift in our country after the Republican/Democrat sellout to Wall Street, their failure to allow a strong economy to function, plus the two parties' uttter contempt for morality, the Constitution, and the American people.
It's our job to educate those who don't see the mega-government itself as the
reason America is falling into ruin.
Expulsion not Secession
Whether secession is unconstutional, the courts will rule so perhaps citing Texas v White or whatever. The one way to achieve anything like it is for the states to hold a constitutional convention to amend the constitution. When 3/4 of the states ratify (38 states),secession becomes the law of the land.
The states could amend the constitution to give them the power to expel any state. The expulsion of New York and California would go a long way toward making America the land of the free again.
I like your train of thought...
But I was thinking more of DC. You know, the blue background behind those 50 stars.. ;)
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
That Felt Personal
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
good one
~
If at first you don't Secede.....Try Try again :)
____
I'm not a fan of puns ... but I loved yours, sentinel !!