Submitted by paintersmurf on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 04:33.
Sure, Rand had her imperfect (human) moments, but her ability to grasp and explain highly abstract concepts was astounding, to say the least.
If you have difficulty understanding a book like Atlas Shrugged, I suggest approaching it by way of the backdoor, as I did. Read simple books like Libertarianism In One Lesson, by Bergland. Read Why Government Doesn't Work, by Harry Browne. You might also throw in On Liberty, by Mill. Then read Rand's novella Anthem. Now you should be ready to turn it up a bit. Read Rand's Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, and The Virtue of Selfishness. Now Atlas Shrugged should be considerably easier.
Do all of that "Grasshopper," then snatch the pebble from my hand before I can close it, and, if successful, you will be ready to leave. :-)
For me in order to be a true 100% objectivist, you can't beleive in GOD, and so I tend to say Im a neo-objectivist. In that I agree with all tenets of objectivism, with the exception of believing in GOD.
1) Libertarianism
2) Ronald Reagan
3) Widespread Knowledge Of Austrian Economics
4) ......
8) Many more
9) Quite possibly Ron Paul
Since 1968, I have read and followed her philosophy entirely as I see it, but as I learned it from her and not Leonard Piekoff who I disagree with in many respects.
This question is too complicated to deal with completely in this kind of forum but you are welcome to contact me directly at
Submitted by capitalist52 on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 02:42.
I discovered her when I was 19 and thought, finally there is some one who explicitly says many of the things I have always implicitly believed. I got really deep into her thereafter, became a bit of a fan for a while and eased off when I started sounding dogmatic and or intolerent. I don't read her nearly as much anymore (I'm 26 now), but I have incorporated much of her philosophy into my everyday life. I love her ideas.
* To this day I love Ayn Rand, but she could be quite abrasive, impatient, and intolerent at times, this could have been quickly resolved by replacing her usual tobacco with cannabis.* joke------ just kidding folks...
Submitted by andyj21_77 on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 02:17.
I'm in the Air Force and about eight years ago I was deployed once again to Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait and my father sent me his old copy of The Fountainhead. Seemed an odd thing at first but it didnt take long before I was hooked and needed more. Then came Atlus Shrugged which is the best book I've ever read. Some of you may not agree but I will explain it like this. It was the first book I had ever read that really challenged my ability to think rationally. That book actually turned me on to politics, government, capitalism, economics and even religion ( though I am not religious it made me question and attempt to answer). Though I dont consider myself a student of Rand, I am definitely a fan and am grateful she wrote it and that my father sent both books to me.
Submitted by laissez faire on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 01:31.
I'd echo what donut-JGalt said (whose name obviously references Atlas Shrugged) about Rand, but I do see a place for non-self-interested charity. Her most important point, in other words if the masses could understand one thing of Rand's and one thing only, is her echoing of Adam Smith's truth that rational self interest benefits he economic well being of all.
Not understanding that truth, is at the root of all impositions against economic liberty, and therefore, true progress.
-JP
—
The first 5 million supporters of Dr. Paul are 'early adopters.' The next 10 million will require a modified approach.
that helping others always helps me and therefore that there is no such thing as unselfish charity. I always Feel good when I help others. I get a rush that sometimes lasts for days. Self-Confidence increases too. Then you also improve your chances that others will help you when you are in trouble. Tit-for-tat! I think it is genetic, but it could be deeply cultural. Anyway it is certianly Natural, and we all feel it whether we like to admit it or not. We are selfish and this is why the Free-Market works and Power always Corrupts.
about him too. I think he was sort of an outsider in the Rand group but his views have either changed dramatically or he is holding back the truth now. I hope that his Memoir is Honest.
Submitted by capitalist52 on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 02:22.
I always wondered about him too. I read his book recently and he had nothing but good things to say about Miss Rand, and gave her praise throughout much of the book. He calls himself a Libertarian Republican and he talks the talk in many issues, yet the man is quite a mystery to me. I would probably have to sit down a have a face to face conversation to better know him.
Introducing Objectivism
The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962. To learn more about her philosophic system, please read Dr. Leonard Peikoff's short essay: The Philosophy of Objectivism: A Brief Summary.
by Ayn Rand
At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows:
If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" or "Wishing won't make it so." 2. "You can't eat your cake and have it, too." 3. "Man is an end in himself." 4. "Give me liberty or give me death."
If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency—to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them—requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot—nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics.
My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:
Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man's rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.
Submitted by donut-JGalt on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 01:08.
I consider myself a Randist, given Rand's position on people labelling themselves "Objectivists." I disagree with her absolute rejection of compromise, because I think it is necessary in a truly democratic society. She had some good ideas, and Atlas Shrugged was good, but she was far from perfect. If anything, orthodox Objectivism shows how suceptible even Libertarian ideologies are to personality cults.
The thing I can't wrap my mind around is Hillary's claim to have been influenced by Rand.
Submitted by Ian Bowles on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 01:19.
from 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal' titled 'Anatomy of a Compromise' I think is one of the greatest pieces of political literature ever penned. One of the greatest and most influential pieces I have ever read.
Submitted by donut-JGalt on Sun, 11/25/2007 - 01:19.
Well, if you define radical as "departing far from accepted or conventional thought," yes, but I consider myself a radical.
Whether objectivism is a cult is a more interesting question. If objectivism as a movement can go beyond Rand herself and produce new ideas in the same vein, then no, but I do think an completely orthodox interpretation of Rand's words as absolute truth would be very cultish. However, I think Objectivism has begun to move past Rand, so to speak, and has started to establish itself as a valid school of philosophy and is moving away from its roots as a small group of followers clustered around one thinker.
The Way Of The Master
Sure, Rand had her imperfect (human) moments, but her ability to grasp and explain highly abstract concepts was astounding, to say the least.
If you have difficulty understanding a book like Atlas Shrugged, I suggest approaching it by way of the backdoor, as I did. Read simple books like Libertarianism In One Lesson, by Bergland. Read Why Government Doesn't Work, by Harry Browne. You might also throw in On Liberty, by Mill. Then read Rand's novella Anthem. Now you should be ready to turn it up a bit. Read Rand's Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, and The Virtue of Selfishness. Now Atlas Shrugged should be considerably easier.
Do all of that "Grasshopper," then snatch the pebble from my hand before I can close it, and, if successful, you will be ready to leave. :-)
For me in order to be a true
For me in order to be a true 100% objectivist, you can't beleive in GOD, and so I tend to say Im a neo-objectivist. In that I agree with all tenets of objectivism, with the exception of believing in GOD.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
Without Ayn Rand There Probably Would Be No ........
1) Libertarianism
2) Ronald Reagan
3) Widespread Knowledge Of Austrian Economics
4) ......
8) Many more
9) Quite possibly Ron Paul
Since 1968, I have read and followed her philosophy entirely as I see it, but as I learned it from her and not Leonard Piekoff who I disagree with in many respects.
This question is too complicated to deal with completely in this kind of forum but you are welcome to contact me directly at
[ nowido@gmail.com ]
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
Ayn Rand changed my life.
I discovered her when I was 19 and thought, finally there is some one who explicitly says many of the things I have always implicitly believed. I got really deep into her thereafter, became a bit of a fan for a while and eased off when I started sounding dogmatic and or intolerent. I don't read her nearly as much anymore (I'm 26 now), but I have incorporated much of her philosophy into my everyday life. I love her ideas.
* To this day I love Ayn Rand, but she could be quite abrasive, impatient, and intolerent at times, this could have been quickly resolved by replacing her usual tobacco with cannabis.* joke------ just kidding folks...
Love Ayn Rand!
I'm in the Air Force and about eight years ago I was deployed once again to Al Jaber Air Base, Kuwait and my father sent me his old copy of The Fountainhead. Seemed an odd thing at first but it didnt take long before I was hooked and needed more. Then came Atlus Shrugged which is the best book I've ever read. Some of you may not agree but I will explain it like this. It was the first book I had ever read that really challenged my ability to think rationally. That book actually turned me on to politics, government, capitalism, economics and even religion ( though I am not religious it made me question and attempt to answer). Though I dont consider myself a student of Rand, I am definitely a fan and am grateful she wrote it and that my father sent both books to me.
I dont actively study it, but I agree with it in principle.
But for all intensive purposes I might as well, I would pack my bag and move to Galt's Gultch. As soon as I knew the zipcode.
46408
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ
Echo
I'd echo what donut-JGalt said (whose name obviously references Atlas Shrugged) about Rand, but I do see a place for non-self-interested charity. Her most important point, in other words if the masses could understand one thing of Rand's and one thing only, is her echoing of Adam Smith's truth that rational self interest benefits he economic well being of all.
Not understanding that truth, is at the root of all impositions against economic liberty, and therefore, true progress.
-JP
The first 5 million supporters of Dr. Paul are 'early adopters.' The next 10 million will require a modified approach.
I like to think
that helping others always helps me and therefore that there is no such thing as unselfish charity. I always Feel good when I help others. I get a rush that sometimes lasts for days. Self-Confidence increases too. Then you also improve your chances that others will help you when you are in trouble. Tit-for-tat! I think it is genetic, but it could be deeply cultural. Anyway it is certianly Natural, and we all feel it whether we like to admit it or not. We are selfish and this is why the Free-Market works and Power always Corrupts.
Allen Greenspan
I found it very interesting that Alan Greenspan was a very close associate of Ayn Rand.
Things that make you go, hmmm.
I have always wondered
about him too. I think he was sort of an outsider in the Rand group but his views have either changed dramatically or he is holding back the truth now. I hope that his Memoir is Honest.
I also wondered...
I always wondered about him too. I read his book recently and he had nothing but good things to say about Miss Rand, and gave her praise throughout much of the book. He calls himself a Libertarian Republican and he talks the talk in many issues, yet the man is quite a mystery to me. I would probably have to sit down a have a face to face conversation to better know him.
Me
Introducing Objectivism
The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962. To learn more about her philosophic system, please read Dr. Leonard Peikoff's short essay: The Philosophy of Objectivism: A Brief Summary.
by Ayn Rand
At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows:
1. Metaphysics: Objective Reality
2. Epistemology: Reason
3. Ethics: Self-interest
4. Politics: Capitalism
If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" or "Wishing won't make it so." 2. "You can't eat your cake and have it, too." 3. "Man is an end in himself." 4. "Give me liberty or give me death."
If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency—to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them—requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot—nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics.
My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:
Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man's rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.
Copyright ã 1962 by Times-Mirror Co.
-http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=objectivism_intro
Yeah
I consider myself a Randist, given Rand's position on people labelling themselves "Objectivists." I disagree with her absolute rejection of compromise, because I think it is necessary in a truly democratic society. She had some good ideas, and Atlas Shrugged was good, but she was far from perfect. If anything, orthodox Objectivism shows how suceptible even Libertarian ideologies are to personality cults.
The thing I can't wrap my mind around is Hillary's claim to have been influenced by Rand.
visit fdassault.com
Sorry,
I just had a little vomit come up, Hillary actually said that? Unbelieveabe...
Her essay
from 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal' titled 'Anatomy of a Compromise' I think is one of the greatest pieces of political literature ever penned. One of the greatest and most influential pieces I have ever read.
the NeoCons
claim to be influenced by Milton Freidman too.
after your experience with Ron Paul
Do you think her perception as a radical cultist could have been slander?
Interesting
Well, if you define radical as "departing far from accepted or conventional thought," yes, but I consider myself a radical.
Whether objectivism is a cult is a more interesting question. If objectivism as a movement can go beyond Rand herself and produce new ideas in the same vein, then no, but I do think an completely orthodox interpretation of Rand's words as absolute truth would be very cultish. However, I think Objectivism has begun to move past Rand, so to speak, and has started to establish itself as a valid school of philosophy and is moving away from its roots as a small group of followers clustered around one thinker.
visit fdassault.com
let's
Hope