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Secession?

I think secession is the WRONG way to go. United we stand, divided we fall.

"Divide and conquer" or "problem-reaction-solution" is the classic tactic of the New World order. This would signify the end of the United States, which is the ultimate goal of the NWO. I strongly feel this is not the way we should go, as divided states (even if "independent" and "free" at first) would be a lot easier to eventually overthrow and conquer. This is the "Balkanization of the U.S." !!!! WE SHOULD AVOID THIS AT ALL COSTS!!!

This move really made me reflect a bit... there are subtle (and, at times, not so subtle) inconsistencies that have been bothering me, and this secession talk by both Perry and Paul (which should be polar opposites given Perry's known Bilderberg association- of which Ron Paul is aware of) coming at the same time just has made me think a little deeper... It also has bothered me that Ron Paul will not recognize that 9/11 was an inside job, and that he doesn't believe FEMA camps exist...

In my ultimate quest for truth, I am beginning to question the ultimate INTENT of people like Alex Jones, and others in the "patriot movement" (including Ron Paul...believe it or not) in light of all recent developments, manipulation, and suggestions such as this talk of state sovereignty and secession, even if 80-90% of what they all talk about sounds right and/or is true. Humor me for a second.

It's the same scenario as with the Glenn Beck's "doublespeak". But why not apply the same prism to a higher "level of complexity"? A more subtle brand of propaganda and mind control for the supposedly "thinking" or "awake" masses?? For sure the NWO engineers would have though of controlling the opposition in their usual multi-level complexity machiavellian attack...

What if the whole "liberty movement" has been progressively built, co-opted, manipulated, and re-directed to achieve the ultimate goal of division and control, even within its ranks? Why would the establishment now give prime-time coverage to people such as Alex Jones (who was on Fox news with Geraldo, 1 month after he was yelling at him outside Fox's studios in NYC...), Ron Paul, Peter Schiff (who, by the way, now encourages investment in Chinese infrastructure- as of his last EuroPac recommendations...!). Why is Fox now giving these people time when not too long ago they sought to destroy and demonize them? What better than to co-opt the truth by subtly infiltrating it, steering and re-directing the tip of its spear towards the infiltrators wanted goal? These repeated inconsistencies make me wonder...

Why are all media hacks from all sides (from FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc...) now engaging on even more malicious antagonism to divide, polarize, and create a background frenzy fertile for either "armed revolution" or the more subtle "political revolution" (as oppossed to the desired political "RESTORATION"). I think a very dangerous false dichotomy is being set-up, which, lo and behold, I believe would lead to the same result desired and astutely set-up by the NWO: the ultimate destruction of the Republic.

Has the ultimate intent been all along to progressively create disengagement, disillusion, anger, outrage and - ultimately through education by people such as Alex Jones, et al- discovery and "awakening" in the population against the government/NWO (problem), which has generated the "patriot/liberty movement" (reaction) whose principles and energies subtly, yet ultimately are directed towards the "final solution" of either creating chaos, violence, division within the people or against the establishment (who is really the "agent provocateur" in this equation with their "in-your-face" defiantly insane policies, by masterfully manipulating "the awakened rebels" and whipping them into a frenzy under the banner of "liberty" and "founding-father independence") or alternatively, into the division of the Republic through secession? In other words, I am starting to wonder if this is all a very orchestrated and very clever long-term manipulation towards the ultimate goal of ending the U.S., be it through violence and martial law or through "Balkanization" of the territory. The ultimate result is really the same, isn't it...? And don't doubt that a multi-year plan to achieve this would also have been in the works, as, indeed, ALL the NWO plans are multi-year, gradual, and slow yet systematic.

Is the mention of "secession" and its propagation in the MSM through "quick votes" -such as the CNN poll - both predictive conditioning and a way for the establishment to "feel the American pulse" to see where things are and to insert the idea in the collective subconscious as a reasonable alternative in the minds of "patriots" since it's coming from Ron Paul? Why would Texas governor Perry (a known establishment hack and Bilderberg attendee) be pushing the 10th amendment at the same time Ron Paul out of nowhere starts discussing secession? Clearly, all these things are a lot more subtle than they seem on the surface... they just don't happen "by coincidence" or "by mistake", especially in the corporate-controlled media. And I don't think economic profits are the main driving force behind any of this.

So..... I don't know who or what to believe anymore... maybe I am starting to over analyze things... or maybe I just need some fresh air.

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Divided "we" fall?

The Confederacy was 're-unified' with the US by force.

As for Texas, I believe this issue supercedes Lincoln's war. Texas began as a sovereign nation, and should return to being one.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I think I mentioned this before,

Get the Albatross of the United States off the neck of Texas.

Damned, dirty, stinking bird.

--------------------------------
"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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Republicae's picture

Get the Federal Government

Get the Federal Government out of all State Republics and seal it in with the Chains of the Constitution where it belongs: in the District of Columbia.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Who'll control nukes and debt?

Nothing will happen until states become financially desparate. If CAFR1.com is correct that won't happen until pension funds take such a beating civil servants will be leading the charge in their states and "general funds" can no longer make up the losses with more taxes...but when that happens there needs to be alternatives to quickly handle command and control for both federal assets and liabilities. If the US defaults on debts because states no longer participate in taxes via secession, each state will have to live with the consequences of no global financing but then so will most other countries because their US bond ownership will be worthless too. Individual American State citizens will be living in a pretty cold world at that point and who controls the nukes will be the key issue. How can the states ally and trust one another in that environment?

Easy.

Leave the debt in Washington and give the nukes to Iran. I have no use for either.
grant

a free person

or a collection of free people, always maintain the right to walk away.

"The credit expansion boom is built on the sands of banknotes and deposits. It must collapse.", www.mises.org

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

United we stand, divided we fall equals horse crap.

If you want to use that logic, then you must support One World Government because that would be the ultimate in uniting.

How about reading the Declaration of Independence:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Decentralization is what we need, not a centralized federal government over which we can exert little control. I can at least talk to my State Representative in Jefferson City Missouri, but all I get is a form letter from my Representative in Washington, DC that essentially tells me to get lost.

The goal is freedom, not unity. I want a divorce.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

I believe in the right, but Secession was the worst thing

To ever happen to this country.

For over 80 years the Southern Democrats (let's call them "Jeffersonians") kept the 19th century "neo-cons" in check (Republicans, Federalists, Whigs, etc., call them "Hamiltonians") and prevented them from running amock with all their horrible federal power-based policies.

Once the Southern States pulled out and set up the Confederacy, they were no longer restrained in Washington, D.C. and were free to plant the seeds of our overbearing government today.

Read Tom DiLorenzo's "Hamilton's Curse", great stuff.

=======
"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."

- Robert E. Lee, 1866

=======
RON PAUL 2012

Republicae's picture

Secession wasn't the worst

Secession wasn't the worst thing to happen: Lincoln and the Radical Republicans were the worst thing to happen to this country.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

second on

Hamilton's Curse......

I believe that the states

I believe that the states most certainly have the rights of nullification and secession.

However,
each State must consider the consequences. It is a fact that there are some states in the Union that are not as economically self-sufficient as others. These economically weaker States run the risk of bankruptcy, collapse, and takeover when the Federal Subsidies dry up. The UNITED STATES keeps the several States in check by keeping them dependent upon the federal subsidy $$$... Most States wouldn't have a clue what to do if the money all ran out. This would force the States to 1) either reform their governments and return to their constitutionally mandated form, or 2) implode under the weight of their own bureaucracy.

Prosperity is a function of resources and freedom.

To see how important freedom is in this equation, look at Hong Kong. It is basically a rock with no resources, but they became a premier economy because they were relatively free, which allowed the population to build wealth in spite of the lack of resources on the island itself.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Who says

if we secede that we won't be united? I know many states that want out of the corruption. Let the corrupt rape themselves and leave us alone.

We will be United because

we will all move there!

There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan

"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr

Thanks for the viewpoint

however, I believe that there may be something left to consider. It's not that the people want to secede from the lawful, de jure united States, it's that they want to secede from the unlawful, de-facto, tyrannical, communist, corporate UNITED STATES government.

BIG difference

Texans do not hate Georgians, but they both despise the tyrannical, communist UNITED STATES government.

That is the difference. the people of the united States and of the several, individual States know this deep down, and they are beginning to wake up to this fact.

You sir seem to get the core of my thesis.

There is nothing wrong with the basis and system framework of our Constitutional Republic; the tyranny has been insidiously imposed on the American people by the repeated vile and unconstitutional actions of the bipartisan global elite that have been rotated in by the international bankers and the shadows of power. So the problem is those PEOPLE (and the organizations behind them) running the international crime syndicate that has subverted the Constitution and taken over this country; the problem is not the CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC system. If you were to secede because to the discontent with the people running the system, how would secession avoid duplication of such subversion and tyranny at the state level, since people (not the system) are the culprit in the first place? Would you then secede into separate counties if the people running the state turned out to be rascals? Wouldn't this progression ultimately degenerate into anarchy if the logic for which secession is pursued and carried to its ultimate consequence? Shouldn't we focus on solving the initial problem, rather than fall into the slippery slope of creating huge logistic and social complexities that really don't address the issue during times of hardship with decreased resources, decreased organization, generalized discontent and dissent, in the midst of chaos and crisis, where the elite would be able to control the flow of resources and impose their tyranny with their eyes closed?

Also, please understand that "united we stand" is meant in the same general sense as the phrase "We, the People" is meant: as a group of like-minded, liberty seekers that abhor corruption, united in the adherence to the rule of law and the respect for each other's sovereignty and rights. Individual sovereignty is sacred, but respectful community is also essential to a civilized society.

Keep it simple! ;)

Paul thinks the threat of secession is healthy as it keeps the feds behaving, that simple......kind of like the threat of divorce keeps a man from beating his wife, or vice versa!

Perry likes power....he doesnt want to give it to the Feds or anyone else....

This is the case of strange bedfellows i think....nothing much deeper than that

Too much paranoia and speculation is going to defeat your cause of creating a free world with liberty and justice for all.....You are brilliant, most people aren't....and their drives are probalby alot more simple than you may suspect....

Careful not to defeat yourself with over-analyzing....you'll get caught up in double - triple negative type twists and get lost....

Keep it simple.....Freedom good! ;)

Thank you so much

for writing this. I have tried to write this but could not put my thoughts down as well as you have. I am VERY troubled by what is happening and feel like a pawn in this and am very confused as to what is going on. I think they want a revolution and out of the group a charismatic individual will lead the revolution to TAKE OVER. Remember, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Lenin. I don't think that leader is Dr. Paul but someone else. I think Dr. Paul is innocent but that is what makes it so enticing for the evil doers. Maybe I am wrong but it sure sounds like we are going down the same path as other countries. Maybe it is time for me to take a break because I am getting confused.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

break up to make up

If any state would seceed it is CA, as it assumes the statis of Washington DC on a global government scale.. run by the Chinese

What we want is liberty. The

What we want is liberty.

The questions you should be asking yourself are as follows:
1) How would you maximize your personal liberty politically?
2) Do you feel you have a responsibility to liberate those that do not want to be so liberated (ie. New Yorkers as opposed to Texans) by not allowing them to govern themselves for fear they'll do it badly?
3) If you answered yes to #2, where do you believe the right to make those decisions for others comes from? ie. How can you decide for anyone else whether they should be a member of the U.S.?
4) Do you distrust this particular government or government in general?

The issue is not whether politically secession talk is or is not justified. That's giving the arbitrary authority of government too much credit, by assuming that the status quo is of some net social positive.

Your basic premise of "United we Stand, Divided we Fall" is absolutely false. Who are we being attacked by that we have to 'stand together?" If it's our government, then the best course of action is to disengage yourself in any way you can from that government (aggressor). If you want to band together to do so, be my guest. If you want to fight the system, be my guest, but do not sit here and tell anyone that secession is the wrong way to go.

Secession is nothing more, conceptually, complicated than canceling your DirectTV service. You had a voluntary contract with a group and you chose to terminate it as was your right. The Constitution was entered into by the States as a voluntary compact, the historical record on this is clear. Any argument to the contrary is pure nonsense. Until the Constitution is amended to state otherwise the right to secede from the Union exists, whether it will be allowed (cf. Lincoln's War of Aggression) is entirely different.

As to the conspiracy angle for your post, you've been listening to Alex Jones too much. While I'm sympathetic to the idea that they are trying to manipulate and control us, I'm just not that convinced they are all that competent at it, regardless of how much they try.

Never ascribe to conspiracy that which incompetence will describe equally well.

Freeing your mind does not mean staying locked in a death struggle with your psychopathic captor and getting him to submit to the rightness of your argument. It means walking the hell away or, if necessary, fighting to defend yourself on your way out the door.

Ta,

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H.L. Mencken

Blog: The Present in Plain Text
Listen to The Myo-Tonics on YouTube

You can't cancel your direct tv, that is treason!!!!

You most certainly can't then go to the cable company cause you signed a document that said you wouldn't have two suppliers at once. That is just crazy talk to divide people.

"What was taken from the boomers, it ain't there, what was taken from the X'ers it ain't there, what is being taken from their great, great, great squared grandchildren it ain't there. Some generation just has to have the guts to quit passing it on." Me

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

You don't give Americans much credit for being able to take

care of themselves. Look how the Afganees took on the Russians and won. Do you think for a minute that we are not capable of mastering any invasion of our sovereign borders? Yes, secession requires more responsibility, but that is the cost of gaining more freedom. Well with it.

"Angelic Realities: The Survival Handbook" @ azuritepress.com

"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner

You know that they only won

You know that they only won because WE, the UNITED STATES CIA, supplied them with superior weapons and training.

I hate to cite a movie, but watch "Charlie Wilson's War", it's not all facts, but you'll get the picture.

It is a amazing how many folks can comprehend that we need

to get out of the United Nations, but can't fathom the States being free.

We were originally set up as a group of "united states" a state being a nation. The States weren't subservient to the United States, the United States was supposed to be subservient to to the individual States. The "united states" was set up to be like the united nations, a peace time confederacy used for joint protection and bargaining with other nations or "states".

For most all of history a "state" was defined as a free country or nation, only in the last 148 years or so has the definition of a "state" been relegated to a subservient position to a higher power. The individual sovereign "states" or nations agree to voluntarily join the "united states" just as nations join the UN. If a nation wants to leave the UN due to its oppressive and tyrannical rules, then you would cheer them on and be happy.

Well, it is the same thing with the "united states" the "states" were meant to be able to leave at any time, they just couldn't join into another political body while still members of the "united states" But, it was understood they could leave at anytime, since the were their own free nations.

Why did King George recognize each of the colonies individually at the end of the revolution? Because the whole world recognized each, colony to be a free and independent nation or "state"

Just because our alleged leaders can't understand this and it has been demonized by them, and our GOVERNMENT RUN education system teaches the exact opposite that doesn't make the facts change.

It is further apparent that the larger any entity becomes the more wasteful and corrupt it becomes, so to use the logic of, " we can't be divided" is just plain silly. If each "state" or nation was allowed to be free again, then how much more manageable and transparent would our government be?

Folks are always harping on how the UN is too big and too powerful, well open your eyes the federal government is the same dang thing. Just much more entrenched into our daily lives than the U N will ever be. Yet, you except it as gospel that that is how it was supposed to be? It wasn't, and it is not!!

"What was taken from the boomers, it ain't there, what was taken from the X'ers it ain't there, what is being taken from their great, great, great squared grandchildren it ain't there. Some generation just has to have the guts to quit passing it on." Me

*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*

The John Birch Society

comes to mind when you say folks want out of the UN but can't fathom leaving the U.S.

Their meetings always begin with a pledge to the flag. It makes me cringe.

Republicae's picture

While I don't have time to

While I don't have time to expound on the Constitutional validity of both Nullification and if necessary then Secession, they are extremely important Constitutional Principles of a Federation. A Federation consisting of Free, Independent and Sovereign States is, as it always was, a voluntary union and just as the Free, Independent and Sovereign States Acceded to this union they are also, contrary to the popular opinion, free to Secede if desired or necessary when the government they formed and created by that union becomes destructive to the cause of Liberty and Freedom.

While Secession is a last resort, it should never be taken off the table. I'm personally a strong advocate of the Principles of Nullification and Secession however, neither should be taken lightly or without careful thought to the consequences.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Nice 2 see you 'round. =)

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
John F. Kennedy

≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make
violent revolution inevitable."
John F. Kennedy

Absolutely, secession should

Absolutely, secession should always be on the table for discussion, if we are sovereign people living in sovereign States. Otherwise, what is the purpose of Statehood.
Secession is the right of sovereign free people.
Sovereign
Independent of, and unlimited by, any other; possessing, or entitled to, original authority or jurisdiction; as, a sovereign state; a sovereign discretion.
grant

I agree personal sovereignty

I agree personal sovereignty is the ultimate freedom and the right to secession should not be curtailed. But, paradoxically, wouldn't secession lead to a progressive destruction of the Union, the Constitution of which is the ultimate document we all cherish? Wouldn't one state's secession lead to a progressive disintegration of the Republic when other states follow? And the ultimate question...wouldn't this play right into the hands of those whose motto is "divide and conquer"? Should we be "principled" or "practical" in the face of the subtle enemy's tactics?

Republicae's picture

We have moved pass "Union"

We have moved pass "Union", which was voluntary, to the point of a consolidated, centralized and rogue federal regime which "lords" over the People of this country as though they were subjects of the government.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun