Alex Jones cannot stop God from taking over the Patriot movement...

God HATES apostacy! The Patriot movement NEEDS the fundamentalist LEADERSHIP; cut from the same cloth as our FOUNDERS!

Hopefully, that will never be the case and this movement will remain open to all who seek Liberty and Freedom, including the vital Liberty and Freedom of Conscience. We must always be vigilant to safeguard the principles of Liberty, including religious liberty with the natural right to believe as one’s conscience dictates and not the dictates of men or, in particular, a majority who may or may not hold to the same beliefs as a particular minority or in many cases individuals.

Only in an atmosphere of complete openness of conscience can a true Patriot Movement be founded and maintained, as it were: “cut from the same cloth as our Founders”. This country was, in part, founded by those of every religious persuasion. As late at the 1700s, there were, in certain colonies, common law offenses for heresy. As such, the law existed in Virginia, for instance, that: “If a person brought up in the Christian religion denies the being of a God, or the Trinity, or asserts there are more Gods than one, or denies the Christian religion to be true, or the scriptures to be of divine authority, he is punishable on the first offense by incapacity to hold any office or employment ecclesiastical, civil, or military; on the second offense by disability to sue, to take any gift or legacy, to be guardian, executor or administrator, and by three years imprisonment, without bail. A father’s right to custody of his own children being founded in law on his right of guardianship, this being taken away, they may of course be severed from him, and put, by the authority of a court, into more orthodox hands.”

Sorry, but that is the very thing our Founders fought against and anyone with a Patriotic bone in their body today would also fight against the wiles of men’s religious opinions when those men seek to impose such opinions on others or this movement. I, like the Founders, have no problem whatsoever with anyone’s religious beliefs as long as they maintain them in the privacy of their own conscience without seeking to impose them on others without consent.

The Founders were well aware of the potential for a religious zeal to overcome the reason and purpose of government; they were also aware that when such reason and purpose came under the control of one particular religious group that the likelihood of a religious slavery to be imposed through coercion of the laws. There has always been a tendency by those of an ardent religious persuasion to seek to have a civil authority over the minds of men and yet, the rights of conscience can never be surrendered to the will of others, no matter how good the intention of those of religious persuasion may be.

There is no legitimate power of government other than to extend to such acts that may be injurious to others, otherwise the limited powers of government must remain benign and unbiased, especially when it comes to the consciences of men in their ability to determine their own beliefs or lack thereof.

I get the feeling, at least from those who seem to advocate a particular religious view of this movement, that they would gladly use government to impose their own particular brand or sectarian belief system on others. I hope that is not the case, but from reading some articles here on the DP that appears to be the case in some instances. Government was never prescribed to tell us our diet, nor our medicine, not what clothing to wear, the length of our hair, whether we are to marry this one or that one, nor was government prescribed to tell the conscience of men what to believe or not to believe, nor impose penalties when one chooses other than government prescription. Truth, if it is truth, can stand by itself, without need of any external and particularly fallible institutions created by fallible men who may hold an overwhelming religious opinion to the exclusion of others.

There are after all, thousands of religious opinions within the Christian population alone, to assume that one particular Christian view will or should prevail misses the point of this movement, which is, contrary to the mere opinion of some, not to create a Christian government.

What is the effect of religious coercion on the non-believer or even those who believe differently? History is clear with the bones of millions who have opposed a religious-centered government for religious reasons. Those who hold their religious beliefs must come to grip with the fact that they are only one in thousands of beliefs and as much as they would love to convert others to their particular brand of religion, it is neither in the interest of Liberty or in their own interest to do so if such conversion depends on any type of coercion. Many who espouse their particular religious beliefs appear to conclude that since they must believe that only one religion or particular brand of religion is right, then it must naturally be their own which is correct to the exclusion of all others therefore, they must, due to such an opinion of their own set of beliefs, must bring all others into their particular “fold of truth”. That is a very dangerous belief system, and is particularly dangerous when combined with government or politics.

The most advantageous stance is unbounded tolerance, especially when it comes to religious beliefs. There have been many cases when the religiously persecuted later becomes the persecutor of other religions or religious persuasions. Who is to say which is right, the religion which gains political power? That is a very, very dangerous stance, even to the religious group in power for political power is fleeting and fickle at best. Our Founders were well aware of the necessity for complete religious Freedom where individuals were allowed to believe or not believe based solely upon their own conscience and not coercion or legal impositions of a “moral majority”.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams

I guess I'll have to say it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcE2dq3YD0

The Plumber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE
Just a short video to give you something to think about.
____________________________________________
The Federal Reserve, Stealing the American Dream since 1913

Check out the videos I'm watching on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/user/sharpsteve2003

Not all of us in the liberty movement believe what you do. Keep the thumpin' up and you'll start alienating people...

--

Son_Of_Liberty (formerly known as hippychimp...)

carpe libertatem

most founders were not christian nor theists, they were deists

BIG difference

Would it not be better to have leaders cut from the same cloth as the apostles -- the disciples of Jesus? While I understand your fervor for God and the gospel, I think you need to be careful not to put too much faith in the founding fathers of our nation or the Constitution. They are, after all, fallible men, and many of them were not Christians. If you are talking about a spiritual revival, we need to return not to the founding of this nation but to the founding of the Church. And this revival needs to begin within the body of Christ no in the libertarian movement. Perhaps when they see the good works of true committed believers, they will be drawn to join us, but you cannot expect them to do so until we have a house clean enough for them to want to visit.

I do find it interesting how Christianity -- real Christianity -- is rising to the forefront despite efforts to keep it out. It is true that God does not like apostasy, and His name has been maligned by so-called Christians for far too long. I believe that is why we see this issue being raised more and more, and soon we will see a separation in the church -- specifically if the laws are passed that make charitable donations no longer tax deductible. That will result in a massive change in the church in America -- mostly for the better, IMO.

I've got nothing against Christianity, but your religion is pretty irrelevant when it comes to this movement. A belief in freedom is what is important. You can be atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Jewish, or even Islamic and still be a part of this movement.

So yes we welcome Christians (probably the bulk of this movement are Christians) but we also welcome vegetarians, electric train hobbyists, and birdwatchers.

I'm pagan and proud. This is about liberty not Jesus. Start another movement.