911-Speculation vs 911-Truth
911-Truth is at least 4 fold: 1) Seeking the Truth (more investigation), 2) Getting a Day in Court, 3) Spreading the Message, and 4) Dismantling the Gov't
911-Specuation -- Specifically naming suspects -- Absolutely ZERO proof of who was invovled #1, or how many were involved #2, or which departments of Gov't were involved #3.
911-Speculation is retarding the 911-Truth Movement.
I am 100% willing to bet that 911-Truth would be in a totally different position by years-end if it dumped 911-Speculation.
Let's look at it from a free-market perspective.
If the "profit" of 911-Truth is: spreading the message, getting a day in court, getting "at" the whole-truth, and dismatling gov't; what has been the main "driver" and "slogan" to driving the message (the first profit position)?
"Was an Inside Job" (slogan). That phrase is the 2nd most popular next to 911-Truth -- Google: "Inside Job" now just for kicks Google: "Was an Inside Job" --- look at the difference.
How does 911-Speculation hurt the movement?
1) It blames the Gov't -- The Federal Gov't is approximately 1.8M people.
2) Narrowed Blame -- Bush Administration - Key Military - Key Pentagon - Key Blackwater Types - Key FAA Air-Traffic Controllers - Key Air Force - Key FBI......did I miss anyone? Oh yes. NY Mayors Office (someone inside) - Key NYPD - Key FDNY - Solomon Brothers (key management & staff) -- A Team of Demolition Experts (could be blackwater could be Turner Construction).
Not One Shed of Proof in 911-Speculation.
Dump 911-Speculation and maybe 911-Truth (Discovery) will make it's way to 911-Fact (and court).
Just a thought :)
Flame On!
distraction distraction distraction
All I heard in this thread was "Blah blah blah, don't try to critically think, draw conclusions, and just work within the parameters that will not implicate those who are responsible." Don't try to come here with this subversive BS. Yes, BS.
You know what hurts 9/11 truth?
People who try to pacify 'the people' who should rightly be looking for who did it instead of staying in limbo and not looking for a culprit. I don't care if we 'troofers', as we are eloquently described as, make a million accusations and are proven wrong 999,999 times... Attempting to halt progress by forcing people to try to be 'Politically Correct', or trying to subvert us by making us feel guilty for using our reason or rational attempts to get closer to who is to blame for an act of treason that is being covered up and subverted by people much like yourself is morally reprehensible.
Don't try that crap here. You are exposed. Spin my words because your handlers tell you that is your job... but I am not impressed by your posturing.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
Shisho -- This is DailyPaul (See Ron's Face and Message)
This is not "DailyTruth" or "Daily911"
Schnitt just the other day listened to a caller talk about 911, engaged in the debate right up to the point the caller generalized (speculated) on Bush/Chenney being behind it.
If you google "Gov't Inside Job" you will always find them on or near Ron Paul pages.
This site was originally started to get Ron Paul elected - period.
Ron Paul has said he does not believe in what I'm calling 911-Speculation.
He does believe (as I do) that there needs to be an investigation.
My whole point is the "Troofers" (as you call them) helped to bring RP down during the debates -- No less than 4 times in public debates and many times in off-debate interviews RP hand to handle questions on a topic he does not ascribe because a small minority of the "Truth" movement used his name and rode on his message to get their "speculation" out.
I'm calling for a new tactic.
So, if I'm "exposed" then so is Ron Paul.
I am very open to 911-Science
But blaming 1.8M Federal Gov't Employees by broadly saying "it was an inside job" has reuined the credibility of the base argument which is not speculation rather science.
I cannot fathom why "truthers" would not be open to a "new approach" -- One that would allow congressman like Ron Paul to get behind.
I'm afraid the damage is done and the 911-Speculation movement will ursurp the 911-Science movement regardless what great peace of evidence is made public.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Shisho - You are too emotional to carry on
The "debate" in this forum is whether 911-Science (controlled demolition)would be better off without 911-Speculation (the blame game).
The only contribution bloggers can make is to flame who's responsible -- All the engineers and architects focus almost 100% of their discussion on the "science." Again it looks like another Science vs Believers debate.
Let the scientist get to court and you wont need speculation because a proper investigation will bring out the truly guilty parties.
Building 7 to start the ball -- Then the Pentagon -- Then WTC 1 and 2.
Instead Truthers do this:
Blind Speculation on Who dunnit - WTC 1 & 2 (missles + demolition or just demolition) - Then Building 7 - lastly Pentagon.
I'm only suggesting a re-ording AND I don't pretend to be able to put on the "troofer" vs "science" fire -- only giving an alternative to what has not worked for 8 years (referring to a court date not awareness).
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
"I am very open to 911-Science"
Repeat the same BS as many times as you feel you can, i'm not buying into it no matter how hard you try. If you are open to 9-11 science, then you know (as in normal non -9/11 science) that the laws of Physics were broken, and if Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and anyone else who agreed with them, lied about what went on that day and Obama tows the line for them then they are ALL guilty for lying to the american public, which makes them as guilty as any Arab with a box cutter, in fact more so. Atleast if it was hijackers, they wouldn't have been their own people and their rational would have been somewhat reasonable.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
Like I said, spin.
Be honest and say the words, you want people on this site to 'censor themselves and only say what Ron Paul has said already or what YOU think Ron Paul should be represented as'. And to which I would tell you, for the former, I am a person who comes to this site to be apart of truth and debate about the truth. And to the latter i'd quickly tell you to F yourself because I could care less about what you think I should be doing.
I'm glad Dr. Paul has asked for a new explanation, but that doesn't mean that I should halt my thought process at that point because Ron Paul's office hasn't told me what I should think.
Once again, don't try to censor my thought with your interwoven argument.
Spin away................................... because i'm sure you will once again attempt to shovel some guilt on anyone who tries to rationalize. Go ahead, stiffle free thinking.
Believe me, (in order to destroy your baseless argument) more people will stay here at the DailyPAUL because of the truth as they can best see than will stay here because we are forced to engage in 'politics-lite' as you would try to contain us to.
And yes, you are exposed.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
"Shisho -- This is DailyPaul (See Ron's Face and Message)"
If you and I were having a debate face to face and you said some Sh%t to me like that, I would laugh in your face and walk away because you would have, in that instant, lost the arguement. Instead of debating the validity of the claims, you would rather cite an authority as reason to cower from our own inclinations.
spin, spin, spin.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
Shisho -- Okay guy
In the 20 or so posts I've made on the topic of 911 - maybe even 50 posts; never once did I say I do not believe in the science or physics behind the 911-Truth movement. For me it's enough to warrant an open-sourced double blind study -- if the science holds then a day in court to amend the Commission Reports, and then a criminal investigation!
There is an order of operations here that hysteria, anger, and grief blew right past.
The science argument is not the point.
My point is why 911-Truth has not had it's day in court yet -- Might there be an alternative approach.
For you the only approach is to flame on the internet and after 8 years take not one step forward - be no closer to a day in court then when the "Truth" movement helped to lose RP his election.
I'm saying (have been saying) on DP (at least 20 times) that the 911-Science can stand on its own, yet the 2nd most common "truth" camapaign slogan is "Gov't Inside Job," suggesting a policy decision -- as if the CFR called a million-man meeting, talked about their 911 plans to level the Twin Towers as a False Flag Op, and then ate Mooshoo Pork while performing demonic rites in the woods. The Federal Gov't is 1,800,000 people - it's irresponsible to blame the lot of them.
Building 7 is the lynch-pin -- That could get you a day in court if that was the focus and change 911-Speculation (on who did it) to a professional 911-Investigation.
"Flame on" Flame of Udun,
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
i still want to know;
Can we get "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth" to re-enact the incident? I have given this a lot of thought and I believe it could be done. Have you ever watch Myth Busters? I think they should get together 3 independent teams comprised of "believers and debunkers" on each team. It would be their task to re-enact the collapse using miniatures...
Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Truthers and Conditioned Repsonse
"Condition critical response" is a military term; it's a form of training specific reactions so there is no hesitation in combat. It requires strees-repetitive exercises.
Watch 911 video (emotional response) Read 911-Speculation -- Natural Anger Response.
Stimulus-Response -- Stimulus-Response -- Stimulus-Response
So, when suggest buried within 911-Fact is 911-Speculation and that change is in order -- I get the conditioned -- Anger Response
Normal adults who probably are good at rational discussion result to name calling and labeling, why?
Every video we watch (movie or television or video game) the subconscious mind records it like it's a live event -- the emotional response we have (though less then a "real" 911 event upclose) is identical -- Evasoconstriction (to a lesser extent) happens and most of the fore-brain shuts down. At this point only condition responses make it through the brain.
IThis is based on neuro-science and it's what I use in my conscious-sleep classes for military and law enforcement.
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
You work with military and law enforcement?
Wow.
Ingrid: I teach wellness programs
Remember how proud we were and how we bragged during the 2007-8 election run when the active and veteran military were predominately siding with Ron Paul -- It was posted in a positive light many times here in Daily Paul.
The same is true when most Police Officers were siding with Ron Paul.
Why is that? Because they swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, same as Dr. Paul -- Only their jobs are a lot harder.
I teach less-than-lethal Defensive Tactics and Conscious-Sleep.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Define "Proof"
To some, circumstantial evidence is proof. To others it is not. Some people will not accept common sense when it comes to 9/11. That the buildings were controlled demolition is common sense. But because a govt investigation explains it differently, it somehow becomes a topic of debate. 1 or a few pieces of circumstantial evidence on their own dosnt carry much weight- but there are literally hundreds of circumstantial "coincidences" surrounding the events of 9/11 that make it "common sense" to believe that the official story is wrong. Its also common sense for most people to ask why the official investigation was so flawed and speculate as to whether or not the same people who investigated are not themselves covering-up for those responsible. Why would the commission omit the facts around bld 7 if they were not attempting to sweep that piece of the puzzle under the rug?
All I DO know for sure is that a new and impartial independent investigation needs to take place in order to gather the ACTUAL FACTS and THEN we can start looking at possible suspects. Hell, after a real investigation with real facts- the evidence may even point to Bin Laden- but I doubt it. One thing there ISNT so far is evidence that he had anything to do with it. After being waterboarded 183 times I could be persuaded to admit that I had a hand in building Stonehenge.
Jinc: I agree 100% with your last paragraph
911-Truthers cannot separate 911-Science from 911-Speculation (blame game).
I'm really only suggesting a new strategy.
The thing that makes these people impossible to deal with is the name calling and labeling if you disagree with their approach. The "flamming" text. I was called "octoboy" (twice), "octobritney." a "nwo scum."
I'm only suggesting a new tactic
I don't think they understand that I agree 100% Building #7
Imagine if 911-Truth's only goal was to have no 911-Speculation (at all) and focus ONLY on building 7 -- back in 2003 when I first started reading about 911 False-Flag.
I bet the general publica would go for that if people dropped the religious finalities
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Of course "they" don't understand you
Because you are VAGUE. You speak gibberish and refuse to be specific.
Ingrid: That was a very vague statement - hahahaha
Simply stated: 911-Speculation is the side of the 911-Truth movement that generalizes who's to blame. Saying broadly that it was an inside job.
There are 1.8M people in the Federal Gov't -- which ones are "truthfully" guilty?
If 911-Science -- All the 911 arguments that are based on physics would have already had their day in court had they not sound like nut jobs blaming Gov't -- Ron Paul has only stated regarding 911 that he does not believe it was an "inside" job by "Gov't" (being such a broad generalization).
911-Speculators are basically saying (by accusing Gov't) that it was a matter of broad policy.
911-Science (ONLY) for 1 year and maybe "truthers" will have a public debate.
Is that less vague?
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
One of my biggest fears...
Remember a little over a year ago? when all of the govt emails, CIA tapes and such went "missing", got erased? and honestly the common consensus was "We'll NEVER get the govt to admit they tortured detainees- EVER." Well...now they have- and where are we with that? One of my biggest fears is that Obama steps up to the podium one day and says; "Yes. The evidence is overwhelming that 9/11 was not in fact perpetrated by 19 Arabs with boxcutters, but rather by (insert any culprit). And yes, was subsequently used as a pretext for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And yes- the original 9/11 Commission intentionally left out many available facts and eye-witness testimony and essentially lied to and mislead the American people. BUT there will be no prosecution. That was waaaaaay back in 2001- it is time to move forward and put the past behind us. Lets not be a nation who holds a grudge against herself.
There is proof
that the MSM participated in the 911 attacks.
Where is their investigative reporting on 911?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6407548186293238834...
Short version - Part B is undeniable evidence
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=september+clues+part+b...
I am gross and perverted, I'm obsessed and deranged, I have existed for years but very little has changed, I'm the tool of the government and industry too. Have you guessed me yet??
I'm the slime oozing out from your TV set.
JFK ,MLK, Ruby Ridge,Waco, OK City, WTC -911 never,never,
never, never, never believe the bullsh*t that you are spoon fed by the government or the MSM.
If you do you are a fool , look back at history ( actual provable facts) and think about it. How many times has the suspect hidden or distorted the evidence?
the answer to your question is...
every time...
O Captain, My Captain, rise up and hear the bells!
its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
The key
The truth to 911 begins with the USS Liberty attack, it is the same enemy, same motive, same scam all over again.
Except the Liberty did not sink, but only got buried, How far does the Rabbit hole go?
www.iamthewitness.com/
Cows think they are free, this is no bull, the beast must be Fed, with pitchfork instead
Cows think they are free, this is no bull, the beast must be Fed, with pitchfork instead
For you it seems ...
that everything leads to Israel and the jews.
You are not alone on this site, but you are a full blown bigot.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Please do not pick on my son.
Besides, I thought I was the neighborhood "bigot"?
I'm jealous...
★★★★★★
"The man who makes unheard of pronouncements that reveal themselves to be true is a proven genius. The man who scoffs at the pronouncements as folly proves himself to be a fool. Time is the true revealer of genius or foolishness." –Will Pitts
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
It looks like your buddy e_goldstein felt the same way.
He banned him.
AHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Wait a second!!
If I am "buddies" with e_goldstein, and goldstein is a Jewish name, wouldn't that take me off the bigot list?
Which am I rhino? Make up your mind..
★★★★★★
"The man who makes unheard of pronouncements that reveal themselves to be true is a proven genius. The man who scoffs at the pronouncements as folly proves himself to be a fool. Time is the true revealer of genius or foolishness." –Will Pitts
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Oh yes my ole pal e_goldstein!!!
We're gonna have a chuckle about that over beers later.
psssst....you're missing your "W".
You're just AHOR.
★★★★★★
"The man who makes unheard of pronouncements that reveal themselves to be true is a proven genius. The man who scoffs at the pronouncements as folly proves himself to be a fool. Time is the true revealer of genius or foolishness." –Will Pitts
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
You're just loving this aren't you
.. Heh.. Divisive windbag. I'm sad another person is banned. What does that do for truth. NOTHING.. No topic or question is to sacred to be questioned in my book. If civility is used in the approach.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
You are e_goldstein's friend, not me.
You are bringing it up with the wrong person.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Typical response.
whatever
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Kinda makes a person wonder
if somebody was "lobbying" the moderators for some banning, doesn't it?
Nope.
We have been watching the jew bashing go on for the last week or so. We organized, were given permission and are now taking care of the problem.
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"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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