Important - 17th Amendment!

0 votes

Edit: Here is the Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

This thread is about the most important issue facing us today – the 17th Amendment and the States.

I had posted some of these thoughts in other posts, but felt that this needed to be brought front and center.

I am grateful to all for the work that has been done for the Revolution over the past two years. However, if there is one thing that became apparent, to me at least, during this time, it is that our focus on the Central Government is the wrong direction. If all politics are local and this is a grass-roots effort from the ground up, then we should be focusing locally to affect change nationally.

During my studies over the past couple of years there has been one issue that always nags at me and that is the 17th Amendment, although, the 14th is a close second. While it was always in the back of my mind, I kept thinking nationally in regards to what we needed to do. More recently, however, Ron Paul's individualist idealogy, along with Ed Griffin's, finally settled in and I realized that for We the People to right the ship we must start locally and with the States.

Now, if we simply all ran for and took over our State Legislatures, we still would be powerless; and, this is because of one issue: the 17th Amendment. This is where we need to focus our efforts.

When this Constitutional Republic was established, it was to be a “government of laws, not of men,” to quote John Adams. Today, however, it is the antithesis of such.

The Federal Government derived it's power from the consent of the People and the States. It couldn't exist without them. The Congress was composed of the House of Representatives, which represented you and I; and, the Senate, which represented the individual States (and, subsequently, the will of the people of each particular State) whom had ceded a part of their Soveriengty to the central government. This mechanism guaruanteed that the central government would remain chained down by law.

Article 1, Section 3: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators from each State, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each senator shall have one vote.

It is exactly this that ensured our form of government would not become a democracy. This is the checks and balances that we had been taught of in school. This article guaruanteed that the Sovereign States, and the People thereof, who had created this new government, would be able to keep it within their control. The Senate belonged to the States and the House of Representatives belonged to the constituents.

If a senator was found not representing and carrying out the will of the State, it was the duty of the legislature thereof to recall the wayward senator and replace him with another member of the legislature, therefore, ensuring that the State, and the people thereof, were being represented in the government they had consented to.

Can you imagine the ramifications of this in todays atmosphere?

After 1913, and the passage of the aformentioned act, we became a full-blown democracy. Today senators are no longer beholden to the States. They pay no attention to their State's General Assembly and have no need to. Once they are in it is hard to get them out, regardless of how corrupt they are. Not to mention that the States, themselves, are no longer party to the Federal Government. Today, they are merely beggars.

Furthermore, it appears, from my studies, thought I haven't personally verified this myself, that this amendment wasn't even fully ratified by the required number of States, making it a law that doesn't exist, much like the 14th Amendment.

What I am proposing, though I am not sure how to do this, is get all of us involved in a push on the local level involving petitioning the legislatures of the several States to force this issue. For any members of the State legislatures who are not receptive, we make a concerted effort to unseat them and elect one of our own into the office to further the issue.

Now, if the said amendment was never truly ratified, then it is not law. The significance of this is that once we had placed a supportive majority in each State legislature, each State would then simply appoint the two senators and send them to Washington, D.C. This would force the issue out into the open. And, while I had suggested in a previous thread that the States should call a Con-Con for the purpose of repealing said amendment, it appears that this action would validate the legitimacy of said amendment, even if it never truly was ratified – so, this may be the wrong approach.

So, with all this said, who is interested? Where do we start? Do we organize a National 17th Amendment Meetup and sub-divide under it into 50 groups?

If we do not address this issue, though, we might as well throw in the towel and flee the country, because this is the key, as far as I can tell. We have been focused on the top for too long, it must start with the States.

If you are not familiar with the 17th Amendment and what it accomplished, here are some links:

17th Amendment: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amend...
Devvy Kidd: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42711
Tom DiLorenzo: http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo93.html (thanks to wauhoo)
Bruce Bartlett: http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/nrof_b... (thank to wauhoo)
The Seventeenth Amendment a law that never existed:
http://usa-the-republic.com/amendment_17/Our%20Senate.pdf

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Getting rid of the 17th is a must!

Thomas Jefferson once said, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

Well, I guess he called that one.

Freedom Watch

Let's see if we can get the Judge to talk about this on tomorrow's Freedom Watch: http://freedomwatch.uservoice.com/pages/18725-freedom-watch-...

I voted for it.

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

Good read

And good motivation to start working on electing the right people. This seems like a really good goal and a way to direct our actions. I think with steps in that direction we can bring to light this very issue. However, I also think more people need to realize what is going on. Pushing HR1207 seems like a good step toward this ultimate goal. I think the audit the fed movement would awaken more people to the type of lies our government is purporting and allow for them to be open to bigger ideas such as this. Just my thoughts

You're thinking well....

The 17th needs to go. I see it as a real shortcut around all that ails us.

BUMP!

This is too important to let go of!

"If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the People, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security."
-Samuel Adams-

Bukmp.

*

The 17th Amendment and

The 17th Amendment and Sovereignty: http://mrossarr.nixsyspaus.org/17thamend.shtml

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

Oh, this is great!

I am so grateful to have my attention redirected to this important topic. I have always been troubled by this, but I never knew this amendment passed in the same year as the Fed and the Income Tax. Thank you so much for posting this and for the links (though I could not get the Devvy Kidd article to come up...)

Thanks again! Yet another weapon in our arsenal!

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

This would not only achieve so much more than each state passing 10th amendment resolutions, this would ensure that each state's 10th amendment rights were guaranteed!

This is the only guarantee!

What member of any state legislator would pass up on this kind of power?

This is real revolutionary, grass-roots stuff that should be pursued with vigilance.

=======
"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."

- Robert E. Lee, 1866

=======
RON PAUL 2012

I've been away reading your material Sam....

and I've got to tell you that I am stoked...this may be a silver bullet....

Have you read the response I

Have you read the response I posted to you in the other thread regarding the third view-point on the legitimacy of the amendment?

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

Yes, thank you.

:)

Great! We need your help

Great! We need your help and input.

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

The Patrick Henry Caucus

I also think we need to get this new state legislature caucus on board: http://thepatrickhenrycaucus.org/

This guy is one of its founders: http://le.utah.gov/house/members2005/bios2005.asp?id=52

SAM...I sent you an email....

Sorry. In the wrong place.

I replied

I replied back.

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

Bump

I think the best strategy is to get a legislature to appoint senators and force the legal battle. Congress as it stands today will never agree to repeal the amendment, and plus, if it is illegitimate to begin with it can't even really be 'repealed.'

A Con Con is definitely a bad idea, though, and here's why: http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/concon/pdf/WarrenBurger-let...

I agree that a Con Con

I agree that a Con Con controlled by special interest would be a bad idea. That is why we would all need to take over our state legislatures with constitutionalists. This, obviously, is a task of mammoth proportions.

--------------------------------------

Repeal the 17th Amendment!

http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/

AMPLIFYING THE TENTH

AMPLIFYING THE TENTH AMENDMENT
31 Arizona Law Review 915 (1989)
John MacMullin

In Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority,1 the Supreme Court held that state interests are more properly protected from federal encroachment by the procedural safeguards found in the federal political process rather than by judicially defined limitations.2 Justice Powell, in a strong dissent, asserted that the majority's decision reduced the tenth amendment to "meaningless rhetoric."3 In explaining its decision, the majority observed that State governments, through equal representation in the Senate, retain sufficient influence over the federal political process to insure their autonomy and sovereign interests.4 The Court, however, recognized that the seventeenth amendment, which provides for the popular election of Senators, may have diminished the influence that state governments have over the federal political process and, thereby, the effectiveness of the states' role in that process.5 In South Carolina v, Baker,6 the Court reiterated its position in Garcia, and also held that in order to obtain relief, states must show that the federal political process operates in a defective manner.7

Baker provoked a heated response from the Chairman of the National Governors Association.8 This response typified the reactions of others also alarmed that an excessive centralization of authority in the federal government, and a corresponding denigration of the status of the states in the federal system, may be occurring.9

Continue: http://liberty-ca.org/presentations/articles/ampliffying10th...

Our best action

kw said: "Perhaps we are nearing the time when 'enough' people will demand irrefutable proof from government sources that such is not the case."

The best way to force the government to "prove" its case, is to ignore a law and force them to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the law was broken.

In doing so, the defendant would have the constitutional right to question the constitutionality of the law. The burden of proof would be on the prosecution.

It seems to me, the first order of business would be to challenge the ratification in a court of law.
Surely, because of the records available through the Congressional Record, evidence to support the legitimacy of the ratification or the lack of legitimacy is able to be acquired.

If no legitimacy of ratification is found, then all we need is for some states
like Arizona and California to issue a proposition declaring that their respective legislatures shall appoint Senators according to the Constitutional requirement and declaring that the 17th Amendment was never properly ratified.

Any Senator who opposes such action would have to prove their case.

Those states who do not have conservative enough legislatures would have to work more locally to change that.

Any other ideas or improvements out there?

OK, Question

So how do you propose we position this to people to illustrate why this is important?

This is a very deep and involved topic and for some people border line conspiracy. When I mention this topic to people the first response I get is:

"Are you nuts! Think of how much more corrupt or government would be if we let our state legislatures pick!"

While I don't agree with the sentiment, I can see where they are coming from. On the surface it sounds like a worse scenario than having the people elect them. Once I start explaining the issues and discuss checks and balances, as well as Adams, some, not many, start to understand. But I find this such a deep and difficult topic to discuss and many aren't even open-minded enough to listen.

Use state legislators to recall corrupt Senators

If state legislators started recalling/removing corrupt US Senators, it would set a great precident. People would see state legislators as an anti-corruption tool -- a welcome check on Congress. Then state legislators could start appointing new Senators after they are removed for corruption.

So this could be started as an anti-corruption campaign.

How else do you remove a corrupt Congressman, anyhow? If not through the state legislators. In fact, I think the State Legislators should set the salary of their own Senators too. Why should Congress set their own salaries and benefits? That's crazy!!!

We may find the key

when HR 1207 passes overwhelmingly in the House and there are still no cosponsors of the Senate companion bill. Let the pundits have at it and ask why. Show the clip over and over of Sen. Durbin stating that "the banks own the Senate" and finally people will realize that the Senate is a corrupt bunch of millionaires. Then we can hammer our point that it wasn't always that way and it can be changed by repealing the 17th Amendment. Again, this needs to be coupled somehow with the current 10th Amendment muscle flexing currently being debated in State Legislatures around the country.

That is why I started this

That is why I started this dialogue and the meetup, so we could figure out how to put this in motion.

PLEASE, call me....Collect

PLEASE, call me....Collect if you have to. tell operator your name is Ben Franklin. I can answer your question, just not here at this time. My cell # 417-689-0069

YOUR servant for freedom, Clay Carey

Did you get my email?

Did you get my email?

I'm in

Just tell me when and how. If 1207 doesn't go through who knows what to expect. We need to do something to at least postpone the revolution that should ensue if the private Federal Reserve business continues to charge our country and it's tax payers unnecessary interest, and buy off politicians and presidents.

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for

We are all excited about HR 1207

with 112 cosponsors. Even if it passes the house it will hit a brick wall in the Senate. Remember, Richard Durbin (D-IL) actually said "The Banks Own the Senate". That is why this 17th Amendment Repeal issue is so important. We need to change the most corrupt body in American politics back to what the Founding Fathers envisioned, a body representing the States and protecting them from wild and crazy bills out of the House.