| |
  
|
||||||||||
Why A Fertilized Egg Is Not A Person
Submitted by galtgulch on Tue, 04/28/2009 - 23:10
Here is the link to the argument which makes sense to me. This issue is too important to go un examined. Both sides think they have it right and they cannot both be correct: http://www.SecularGovernment.us/docs/a48.pdf Wm » |
|
|||||||||
The Daily Paul is a community website with no official affiliation with Ron Paul or his Presidential Committee. The content of posts and comments on the Daily Paul represent the opinions of the original poster, and are not endorsed, approved, or otherwise representative of the opinions of the Daily Paul, its owner, site moderators or Ron Paul. This site may contain adult language and adult concepts. If you are offended by such content, or feel you may be offended by such content, point your browser to a different site IMMEDIATELY. For more, read the Full Disclaimer
© 2007 - 2011 by The Daily Paul. Not paid for by, nor officially affiliated in any way with Ron Paul. | General Site Disclaimer | DMCA Disclaimer | Advertise here
Just another dipwad who thinks a jackass seems logical…
—Cliff in Sioux City, Iowa
May’s Song: ♪Emily♪ by Dave Koz
Throw-away tools of war
Facebook Profile
Facebook Political Group
Just a few thoughts on abortion.
When a fertilized egg begins it's cell division, at any point is it not human? Is it temporarily a goat or a dog? Sorry man, the dna template has already been created at this point. So killing it is ending some one's destiny. Sounds like murder to me. I still don't get why executing one's young is such a sacrament to some people. It's just sick and philosophically absurd.
All arguments in favour of abortion read like a memo written by Dr.Josef Mengele himself. Abortion is a disgusting industry created by Margaret Sanger's Department of Racial Hygiene (later to become Planned Parenthood) who's main agenda was to decrease the number of minorities and other groups the elite deem as "undesirable." The champions of feminism have cleverly managed to convince well-meaning females to abandon the most feminine act they can engage in. This dehumanisation has lead to 60,000,000 dead in the US and counting. No matter how much public school programming you can regurgitate in order to justify slaughtering your young as morally acceptable, remember that you are going right along with UN depopulation protocol.
Furthermore, why is it that when a killer murders a pregnant lady, he is charged with double homicide?
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
I'm beginning
to form the opinion that these people who want to be described as "objectivist", are actually "nihilists", in thin masquerade.
Why would I think this?
Well, look at what they want to discuss as "important topics".
Abortion.
Euthanasia.
Right to assisted suicide.
All involved with killing, and the various emotional rationalizations about why they should kill..
And they seem to be convinced that things would be so much better if we could just increase the killing.
Of course, all "couched" in the trappings of "alleviating human suffering".
Naturally!
Everybody's suffering would immediately cease, once they were dead.
Am I the only one noticing this?
Good point and clever insight.
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
As a defender of individual liberty,
I support the right of any pregnant person to decide about her own pregnancy. I also think each individual, male and female, has the natural responsibility to avoid beginning unwanted pregnancy, just as we should not pollute. But I don't expect to see human perfection any time soon.
The far bigger issue for a freedom site is government action. Obviously there should not be forced taxation for either abortion or support of unwanted children. Just as obviously, to maintain a harmonious, supportive community people who want more happy children in the world must take some responsibility to teach and encourage both males and females to avoid careless impregnation. Where that doesn't work, reach out supportively and charitably to support a mom with an unwanted pregnancy so she can healthily deliver and be assured the community will provide a home and nurturing if needed.
Any foisting of legal control or responsibility onto the government is a far greater danger of who may/may not have children, when, and who will be required to abort, as in China.
Supporting moms with unwanted pregnancies
will lead to the culture of entitlement that you say you oppose.
Instead, we should ask these mothers who got them pregnant. If the father has gotten other women pregnant then he should be deported.
If we could keep ALL of our income,
More money could be DIRECTLY inserted to private charities that care for single mothers. To some, this is more important issue than to others. Those who feel strongly about this would have the freedom to spend more of their money towards this. Instead, we all get to shell out 30% of our money to the interest on the Fed.
The solutions to these social dilemmas are sitting right here on our noses. Let us keep our money and build up our own communities as we see fit.
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."
Portland,
you state, " Instead, we should ask these mothers who got them pregnant. "
A lot of these mothers have no idea who impregnated them - they are screwing everyone who comes along !
And then you say, " If the father has gotten other women pregnant then he should be deported."
IF it can be determined who the father is, and he is an American citizen, where should he be deported to ?
You seem to be living in La La Land !
Which came first?
The chicken or the egg? - sorry I just couldn't resist that one.
I had an egg fertilized about 7 years ago. My fertilized egg is now in kindergarten and doing well. My fertilized egg is outside running, jumping and playing. You are more than welcome to come over and observe my fertilized egg and you won't be able to deny the fact that he is a person. My fertilized egg has emotion, compassion, and is intellectual. Aren't we all just fertilized eggs? Why yes, yes we are.
What If?
What if the Freedom of Choice Act is the beginning of something more sinister... what if it becomes the Government's choice like in China? Are we headed that way?
It actually never gives
an argument supporting the belief that a fertilized egg is not a person. It doesn't define a person or why a fertilized egg isn't a person. Instead it gives reasons for why a fertilized egg SHOULDN'T be called a person. COMPLETELY different point and argument. Nothing new here...I don't see any kind of new information in this article except for a misleading title.
in the event of rape
there should be a choice however we know most cases involve voluntary sex so based on that abortion is a murder.
In case of a rape and if the woman decides not to kill and doesn't want it, the government should take care of the kid. Just because the government is supposed to protect us and they didn't so the government should be liable and pay some sorta restitution to the victim for breach of contract.
Having said that who would want to have a kid raised by the government?
Rape is a straw man.
Almost all abortions are the result of sex between two people who are not committed to each other. These relationships are destructive in many ways. They are essentially fraudulent. These relationships - not abortion - must be stopped.
Funny how everyone becomes authoritarian in this kind of state
BTW---women love getting played by slick guys that impregnate them and leave. These days, it seems like women are only interested in a moral, stable man after they have 2 or 3 kids with a few boys who won't grow up.
You'll never stop it.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
Portland,
you state, " These relationships ... must be stopped. "
What kind of laws do you propose to accomplish that ?
Good luck with that one ! hahaha
Men with children by one woman
shall receive an annual payment from men with children by multiple women. The payment will be doubled from men with children by two mothers, and so on.
The law will enforce itself. There will be an exodus of polygamists from our country. The polygamists can establish their own country where a few men can impregnate all the women and most men can fight and have sex with each other.
Those are strange words to
Those are strange words to be found on a site devoted to the ideals of Individual Liberty and Freedom, self-determination and individual responsibility. Your suggestions sound more like what one would find in a totalitarian state.
http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com
“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
Republicae,
As usual, you addressed the post much more succinctly than my rather lame response.
You are probably the most informed, knowledgeable, and GRACIOUS, poster on this whole forum !
I would love to meet you one day.
In today's vernacular - you da man !
Sorry, Portland,
but that's beyond laughable !
On your rape analogy
My ex was a staunch pro lifer. We had a constant argument about it. At one point I asked him, if I was raped in the parking lot of the grocery store, beaten badly, mutilated, and left for dead, but in the hospital they determined I was pregnant, would you in good conscience expect me to birth this baby?
His answer was yes. My follow up, would you then be happy to pay for and raise a child, of whom you know nothing of genetics, whose father was a brutal rapist and assaulter, and expect me to raise this child in a loving familial setting, along with the children I had borne with expectations and love? He said yes, and that's when I realized he was not my soulmate. He had not one inch of respect for me as a mother and as a woman.
A rape does not result in a loved child. And an unloved child is an abused child.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Except your ex stated that
Except your ex stated that he would be willing to help 'pay for and raise' the child, ie, love the child. So it wouldn't have been unloved, or abused in that imaginary situation you created.
But I bet you knew he wasn't your soul mate for different reasons. Sounds like you were looking for a reason lol.
I have to take issue with
I have to take issue with your statement that "a rape does not result in a loved child". My great grandmother was a victim of rape. Her child, my grandmother, was one of the finest people I have ever known. She lived to well into her eighties. She raised 5 great children. She has numerous grandchildren and great great children. Many of us are college graduates and not one has step foot in a jail. As far as the good man you passed up for your soulmate I would say it is your loss.
a fertilized human egg is no more a person
than a fertilized egg a chicken. I'm eating an egg, not chicken meat. Mother is a support system for the egg. She may opt in or opt out, her choice.
What the fanatics don' want to happen is for mothers everywhere to pinch you out of the loop. You don't deserve a say and if this crap keeps up, women will still do what they want with their bodies you just won't know about it. The choice of mother is a private matter for each woman to decide. The moment you decide whether she must grow the egg is the point you step over her rights and infringe on her liberty.
How would you like it if our government legislated you had to have an abortion? Would that be fair? It's not the government's business what we do with our bodies. You are entitled to choose or not choose abortion, but the moment you choose for someone else, you are no longer supporting liberty.
The government
is out of line making this decision.
But the "choice" the mother has is to get pregnant or not get pregnant. Once she is pregnant, she has made her choice.
lol your argument consists
lol your argument consists of comparing humans to chickens.
that's hilarious.
You are so right
No matter where an individual stands on the issue, the moment they seek government intervention, all free choice is gone. As in the chicken and egg syndrome below, if you choose not to incubate, they are eggs.
I have an IUD and I choose not to incubate. I probably pass a few fertilized eggs per year, but they are not incubated due to the fact that they cannot be embedded in the uterine wall.. It's choice, once again. We will always get around it. Make whatever laws you want to, but those of us who choose reproductive FREEDOM will do what we can to only have children we know we can raise.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
My point exactly!
A fertilized chicken egg does not start cell division, in other words "beginning of life", until it is incubated. This is why you are not eating a baby chicken, chicken meat or embryo when you eat fertilized eggs. A chicken (needs rooster) can lay 8 to 15 fertilized eggs, one a day up until she goes broody and begins to sit on her nest and incubate the eggs. This way they all begin cell division on the same day and are hatched within hours of each other instead of days apart as they were laid. I guess she has a "choice" whether she "opts in or out" in becoming a mother to her brood, by choosing to sit or not. A human egg, once fertilized does not have that waiting period. A human egg, once fertilized by human sperm, begins to divide and grow into a human being regardless of the broodiness of the mother. She may opt to kill the process of continuing human life, but she does not have the option that a chicken does by having a fertilized egg which has not begun the division process. Human life begins at the moment of fertilization.
Nope
The egg can be fertilized without ever attaching to the uteran wall and will be passed. So you hard core prolifers have to at least admit the morning after pill is not murder.
The egg and sperm themselves are also cells so how far do you want to go in that direction? Birth control is murder? Prevention of pregnancy is wrong? These arguments could go on forever. It is a personal choice as far as I'm concerned. I think partial birth or live birth abortions are murder. Bur I also think people having children they are not prepared to have for emotional,financial or health reasons is sometimes worse than abortion. People who try to prevent pregnancy and are responsible in doing so still have accidental pregnancies (even married people) IMO except when the life of the mother is at risk there should be no late term abortions. But I don't make the decisions. If you don't do something by 12 weeks preferably less you are negligent and maybe thier should be a penalty of sorts.
Twice in my life I was told I was pregnant by doctors when I wasn't. I knew I couldn't be unless I was five months or more along and had just missed one cycle. I was fighting for custody of my daughter in a bad divorce from a maniac and had not been with a man since i left him. I was not going to risk her being taken by this abusive man so I went to have an abortion only to find (as I knew) I was not pregnant. It was an ovarian cyst.
It happenned another time too but I knew better and insisted on an ultra sound and several tests. The first time I hemmoraged and had emergancy surgery. The second time they gave me medication that dissolved it.
Point is. Would I have been horrible to have an abortion to save my living child? And those of you who are so judgemental don't forget I told you I had not had sex and insisted I could not be pregnant. So I was not irresponsible. But yes if I had been pregnant by some freek of nature I would have had an abortion. I would not have liked it. But would have done it. can you see why these things are to be decided by the person not anyone else? Would you sacrifice an egg for a living child? This is an unusual story but true. But should anyone be required to tell you there story on such personal matters? If I had not gone to have that abortion I also may have died from hemmoraging because they would not have known about the cyst and have already planned surgery before I hemmoraged. At that point they knew what they were dealing with and where it was. Everything is not black and white folks.
Thank you for clarifying
I had not thought of a fertilized egg not attaching to the uterine wall, which in case it will not go into cell division and will be passed. I was just trying to make the differentiation between a chicken egg fertilization (not truly "coming to life" until incubated) and you so rightly brought up the fact that this can also happen in humans, if the egg does not implant in the uterine wall, but usually the mother has no control over this (like the chicken mother does, which made the other post I was addressing incorrect in my judgement.) I appreciate your story and feel for what difficulties you have been through. Nothing is black or white and there are many points to think through on many facets of this difficult issue. I also hope that people on both sides of the "fence" on this can use sensitivity and compassion for all involved, and that neither side judges the other with a broad brush. Peace to you. :)
She opted in when she
She opted in when she participated in sex.