Psalm 2
Back several months ago, Alex Jones was plugging a You Tube video by Baptist Pastor Lindsey Williams when he was talking about the NWO's control of the price of oil.
In this series of videos, Lindsay Williams made the statement that "...these guys have a moral code of conduct...they ANNOUNCE what they are going to do ahead of time."
I have been heavily debating in my mind whether or not Alex Jones is just the hired mouthpiece for the New World Order...apparently he is NO THREAT...but all of us who start up websites and opine in 1st amendment free forums are!
Alex just ANNOUNCES everyday what is "going to happen"...and he always falls short of outright endorsing or encouraging a SEPARATED biblical Christianity, whereas, I see and hear Seventh Day Adventists(POST-Tribulation rapturists) get to espouse their viewpoint that ALL of us(believers and non-believers) are going to GO THROUGH the 7-year, Bible prophesied, Tribulation period.
This post-tribulation rapture business that satan is peddling, and Baptist churches even are sucking up, is instilling a mindset to all that we need to PREPARE for suffering...true believers already know "trials and tribulations" are inevitable; especially if you are going to follow Jesus...but they are personal TRIALS...God's TESTINGS of our faith...NOT government induced oppressions, that is just the nature of government's in general when ruling over others.
This is what make America UNIQUE; we were afforded and OPPORTUNITY to self-govern ourselves; and when we abandoned the Bible and CHOSE to foster and perpetuate as NORMAL that is is O.K. to give God's laws LIP-SERVICE...He saw fit to send a great many individuals strong delusion, and He has given many over to a reprobate mind, because He sees through our CHARADE as a nation...and we know not how to discern or pick Godly leaders in our churches, and consequently, in our governments.
Again, the latest LIE satan is peddling is the POST-Tribulation Rapture...that we're all bracing ourselves to go through, as the likes of Alex Jones announces it, and inevitably it begins to come to fruition.
I do not personally care about Alex Jones, he can do and say what he wants; but inasmuch as Glenn Beck is NOT a Christian, but rather a Mormon, Alex Jones is likewise lacking FRUIT in that he allows this Post-tribulation concoction to be postulated on his airwaves and his website...a message, a doctrine, "they" are PAYING to advertise!
The SUFFERING that is to prophetically occur, and we are being "prepared for" financially, psychologically, and spiritually is NOT going to happen until AFTER Christ takes His true church OUT from this planet; according to knowledgeable, faithful, discerning BAPTISTS(as opposed to compromised Baptists who serve money, and not God).
Baptists are NOT Catholics, NOT Orthodox, and they are NOT Protestants...we are INDEPENDENT Bible-believing followers of the Lord Jesus Christ...and we are NOT scared BECAUSE there has been a history of outright satanic persecution, as well as purposeful satanic infiltration into people groups that form and truly worship God in Spirit and in truth.
Psalm 2 says (1)Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?(2) The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, (3) Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (4) He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Infiltration, as in the Republican Party being allowed in to sweep up the entire "Religious Right" and Southern Baptist Convention into their ranks...biblical separation is all be GONE in America...and it most certainly will cost us our liberties.
The bottom line is, God is laughing...but each of us are FREE to be scared; and we become so when we are undiscerning, don't know our Bibles, are NOT truly born-again(though we profess we are Christians), and really DON'T know God and therefore DON'T know He is ultimately in control!
The Bible prophesies a Revived Roman Empire will be the last ruling Gentile power on earth...NOTHING can stop it...likewise NO MAN save the Father in Heaven KNOWS when the Rapture will occur, or the date of the Lord's return to this Earth(7 years later) to set up His millennial reign - so our ONLY responsibility is the SAME as it has been since Christ ascended into heaven... lay up treasure in Heaven and WIN SOULS!
I have reached my limit of having human compassion for selfish people; who PROFESS all this knowledge and wisdom and insight regarding the days we live in, the signs of the times, and HOW we are going to "take back our Republic"; HUMBLE yourself and LEARN from the Creator!
The bottom line is...due to our REFUSAL to submit to and OBEY the "laws of nature, and of nature's God" through practicing personal self-restraint as to NOT sin ourselves by living in the FEAR of God, we have WILLINGLY traded in our right to self-govern ourselves in exchange for the creature-comforts the government PROVIDES.
We have allowed the government to be God; and it would appear we are enslaved into a spirit of desiring to be God OURSELVES in that we seek to OVERTHROW and take over the government, and sell the people a most-non-offensive secular one in yet another feeble attempt to ultimately DETHRONE God from His right to rule over His creation...because, as Romans 3:10 states, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
Be HUMBLE, and get REAL beneficial knowledge, from the Creator...not "intelligent", FOOLISH man!
God continues to give us SPACE to repent; I don't DARE speculate WHEN His mercy will run out upon this nation, but I certainly will point out that we have ALLOWED, and PREFER not to be told that God will judge in this life, and the next - EACH man, according to his works - and a deliberate decision to heap to ourselves man's wisdom, and not God's wisdom is our nation's undoing.
tribulation fribulation grow up
Really believe the bible is Gods word? Then you must believe the following: If you wife was not a virgin on your wedding night then you must stone her to death! This is the God you believe in?
HAHaha
Deuteronomy 22:13-29 (New American Standard Bible)
Laws on Morality
13"(A)If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her,
14and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,'
15then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.
16"The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her;
17and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
18"So (B)the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him,
19and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.
20"But if this (C)charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
21then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has (D)committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus (E)you shall purge the evil from among you.
Wow...I certainly wouldn't
Wow...I certainly wouldn't let you around my children to teach literature or reading comprehension. Way to misinterpret a text there eilif.
First of all, your blanket statement was incorrect. She was not put to death simply if she was found to not be a virgin. And the man was held accountable as well. There were mitigating circumstances for instances of rape, etc, in which she was not put to death. Secondly, this was Mosaic Law, which is not what the Bible advocates. It was held for a time to show people the proper human punishment for a grievous crime against God. EVERY sin against the perfectly righteous God merits death, but some crimes were so grievous that God ordained for a human system of justice to dispense the punishment for all to see.
And yes, it is the most perfect book ever written, both in scope and in power, in historical and archaeological accuracy, in its uniquely insightful examination of the human soul and condition, in its survival and perpetuity through the ages and against indescribable odds, in its continuity of theme though written by over 40 authors over a thousand years, in its debasement of wicked man and exaltation of Almighty God. No text compares.
Here, here
Great follow up! The Mosaic law was written to a people who were to show the world God. They were to be a people who reflected His character. The beautiful union between a man and a woman was a representation of the church and God. It was a representation for the time in which they lived. They were held to a much higher moral standard than anyone before or since because they were to bring the Messiah and God's gift of salvation to the world. Very high calling and intermingled with some tradition's of the day. It can only be interpreted based on the times in which they lived and the people who they were supposed to be. We live in a very different world and yet, with God's help, we can be all that we were meant to be.
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
Healthnut4freedom
The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22
Hello - This is not a theology forum
So WHY are you bringing in your theology and expecting everyone else to buy into it? This is not an appropriate forum for it. While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, it doesn't matter. It still is not appropriate here. Your bashing others and pushing the Bible (your version of it) down people's throats is not a way to win people to Christ - it just alienates them. Why don't you go back to your Bible and study the methods of Jesus Christ and how He won people to Him and you will be saying something altogether different. Your Baptist hell fire and brimstone roots are showing and I think you need a little hair color.
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
Healthnut4freedom
The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22
Jesus wasn't a SALESMAN!
I am not selling Jesus, a bible interpretation, or starting a church.
We have a responsibility to pay attention, and discern ALL the discontent and uncertainty...where does it come from, and what is it accomplishing?
Jesus only came to call sinners to repentance; those who aren't sick don't need a doctor, do they? There is a divide, leaders and followers. Human reason verses God's wisdom...I'm not sure we understand how truly evil, evil can get - or how pleasing and alluring to the intellect and how appealing five senses it can become?
This discussion must take place. If we are to believe and trust our lives to follow other patriots in supporting candidates by "sacrificing" our free time, lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to take down the Federal Reserve and ALL they control for the proposed restoration of our Republic, don't ya think?
This is NO SMALL task we have chosen to undertake...so to TRUST those who deny the existence of a Creator, think our founders were bigoted, or hate Christians who believe that fire and brimstone is the thing to be SAVED from...then I think we'd better count the COST again before we continue on without due caution.
Are you going to tell me that by heeding the founders plea to govern ourselves by the Bible would have still led our nation to this, the eve of our loss of sovereignty - we're out of time - revival and restoration to a Godly morality is in order; and this movement is not only the only group that seems to care - but they are also the most opposed to accepting the idea of humility before our common Creator so we can move forward in agreement.
Let's not sugarcoat the fact that we have normalized lying, stealing, blasphemy and coveteousness as honorable - there's no way, or reason NOT to preach 180 degrees AGAINST it because God HATES it...and will punish it.
But, if you want a palatable message of "love, love, love" like the Beatles sang when this current lot of radicals that run our nation and nations all over the world fed us; we will see the grip of the oppressors tighten, and bloodshed will ensue BEFORE you appreciate me, and others like me sounding the alarm.
As REAL as we are getting about exposing tyranny; we'd better get just as REAL about exposing ALL their avenues of deceit - and education in BOTH secular governmental matters and how they USE false religion to control the masses(like Matthew 23) is both necessary and essential to the movement in my opinion.
John E. Eleniewski
John E. Eleniewski
You are confusing
Pushing your religion is not appropriate in this forum. Sounding the alarm as you have described is one thing; but pushing your religion and acting like it is the only one who has a clue about end time events is another. That is not appropriate in this forum. That is the problem with what you described. If you just stuck with the facts and did not interject your personal opinions, that would have been a whole other thing.
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
Healthnut4freedom
The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22
Don't confuse RAPTURE with
Don't confuse RAPTURE with second advent ..One preceeds the other ..ONE is the END of the GRACE period & the other is the beginning of judgement...The RESTRAINER of evil will be taken out of the way..
you-no
What shall it profit a man
What shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole World but loose his soul ?
you-no
Colbert already answered that
"The whole world." lol!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
WRONG
THAT man looses BOTH. LOL
you-no
Faith and mysticism are wonderful things ...
but to think it is of importance to a site dedicated to reason is being blind.
And I am a believer. I have faith.
But to sell mysticism as a solution to a perceived flaw in human reason is a mistake. And is usually done with a profit motive.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Be of good cheer people
YE are HIS handy work ..Inspite of yourself & unbeliefe HE will not reject you any longer .You are HIS to complete ..You are no longer under condemnation as the WORLD is...HE said it, that settles it..NO man work or evil will pluck you from HIS hand ..IT is HIS to finish & HE will..However we do not presume to know the day or the hour but only the signs..So it does behove us to be ready for whatever, weather we use it or not....We must maintain till HE comes...The RAPTURE will be HIS removing of the HOLY SPIRIT as the restrainer of evil on earth ..This is when the tribulation kicks in ..& any believers will be removed along with HIS SPIRIT. at that time...HAVE strength & courage you are still here for a reason & you are an AMERICAN...MAINTAIN....
you-no
Salvation
Comes from ones personal relationship with Christ... not whether or not "real" Christians will be refined as by fire.
I think that there is Biblical evidence (verses) that show both sides of the argument...
I'm not willing to wager my eternity on when I'm called home... IMHO, sweating this small stuff is silly.
The Pharisees charged Christ with blasphemy not because they didn't know The Word, but they just couldn't believe that God would provide the Messiah as a nobody Carpenter.
They read into the scriptures what they wanted to believe... and it proved to be their undoing.
It is difficult to NOT put ones' personal "spin" on The Word, but I'll certainly try.
Does belief in Pre or Mid or Post Trib raptue affect ones eternal soul?
I don't know about that.
We're directed to BELIEVE that the Lord died on the Cross as a payment for our sins.
We're directed to be BAPTISED, as a testament to our being Born-Again.
We're directed to love our neighbors as our selves... to care for the dying, to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to shelter the poor, to teach the Good News.
I can't find the direction in the Bible that instructs us to say other believers are Hell-Bound if they think that they will face Tribulation.
I'd continue to wait on the Lord... no matter what.
Is "Purpose Driven Republic" connected in any form to Rick Warren?
I've read some rather disturbing reports on him... from what I've read (if true) he's an ecumenist - assisting in form and fashion for One World Religion.
Tribulation
Hi John:
As a fellow freedom activist and Bible-believing Christian, I do not agree with the popular Premillenial Dispensationalist timeline promoted since the times of the Counter-Reformation Jesuits and Cyrus I. Scofield. And no, I am not a Seventh-Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witness or some variety of Sabbath-keeper.
If you want to criticize Alex Jones, go right ahead. But he is not a pastor and is not broadcasting a theology radio show. That he is a bit sensationalist is true. But to make a stretch of logic by implying that he is pushing the NWO agenda that Christians will undergo tribulation does you a great disservice.
I believe you are sincere. But I do not see two raptures anywhere in Scripture so I am very concerned when Christians like yourself push these opinions on others, especially on a political website.
We are no longer called to a theocracy as the Nation of Israel once was. That ethnic-political nation was destroyed in AD 70 and no longer exists. America must never be a theocracy but a republic. The Church and the State must have separate spheres and ministries as outlined in Scripture. Christians must work with their non-Christian neighbors in establishing good government, honest scales and peace.
Does Scripture say that Christians will escape tribulation?
John 16:33
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
Revelation 1:9
"I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus."
Matthew 5:11
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me."
John 15:20
"Remember the word that I said to you, ' A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also."
Tribulation is the lot of Christians. It will take a lot of Scriptural arguments for you to prove that half of the book of Daniel and the entire book of Revelation only applies to the last 3.5 years of human history, and that it will be trouble for only the newest Christians, but that all Christians prior to the last 7 years will be "rescued" out of this trouble before it happens.
I too have a lot of respect for Paul Washer. I also agree that Scripture affirms that the European powers out of the ashes of the Roman Empire will continue until the very end. I also agree that Christians should be in the business of winning souls, as one of our most important priorities.
But I take exception to your assertion that Satan is peddling the post-tribulation Rapture. In fact, I could easily charge you with the very opposite and prove from Scripture that your position is hermeneutically weak at best or straight out contradictory to our Lord's teaching at worst.
My main encouragement to you is to search both the Old and the New Testaments, put away your Scofield and Dallas Theological Seminary notes and read the Scriptures for themselves. If our Lord and the Apostles did not interpret the Old Testament as literally as possible but understood that Scripture uses symbolism then maybe so should we.
John 6:51
" I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
John 15:1
"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser."
1 Corinthians 10:4
"And all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ."
Revelation 1:3
"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
OK
THANKS for kicking my comment again
you-no
I appreciate your kind reply...
...and I will admit, I am compelled to believe the event of the rapture will indeed occur as I have been taught by a well-studied Pastor of an independent, fundamentalist, separated church who took us through the book of Revelation verse by verse over the course of two plus years.
SAMPLE: www.historicalbibletruths.com
We studied church history...we believe the recorded accounts of the church martyrs are the trials and tribulations you and I speak of.
This nation could suffer great tribulation, death, murder, FEMA camps etc. etc. etc. - but by the Creator's accounting, those He allows to die, will die; but...the biblically prophesied tribulation period may NOT be at hand. This is why I felt compelled to WARN others against another mechanism by which "angels of light" could be psychologically gearing us up for such "tribulation"...are we not beyond being deceived ourselves IF we do not KNOW His Word.
The prophecy chronology is a source for my daily hope, joy, and strength to fight this battle I am growing weary of, and this is my discernment of the "patriotic leaders" ...remember, deceivers do it for filthy lucre...a pot of gold promised to them at the end of a rainbow; be it a compromised Southern Baptist pastor, a General Motors employee(union leader or management), Rush Limbaugh, any member of Congress, or even Alex Jones...we cannot be so naive.
We were taught in that church to believe the closer you get to adhering to Christ's Words personally, and practicing obedience to them more and more as one matures in the Christian life, the more and more you will repel your family, or all sorts of lay people from befriending or even tolerating you.
If you have noticed, I don't make "fair speeches" in this forum to "make friends"; if I run for elective office it is because I suspect people will KNOW they can TRUST me not to go back on my word to fight for smaller, less intrusive government, and a return to our Constitutional Republic where men MUST govern themselves, and rule their households...and once again SHAME lying, stealing, and covetousness...but people still think God is a cosmic killjoy who wants to take away their sports, alcohol, pornography, gambling, and cigarettes - so they accuse me of wanting a theocracy - and dismiss me(and our nation's founding at the same time in my opinion).
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I take this to mean the love we have for Jesus once we are following Him, could make the love(phileo - family) love we have for our relatives LOOK like hate, in that we set rigid standards for ourselves as we turn from sin and continue to mature and shed sins from our behavioral makeup.
Although I believe in a literal pre-trib rapture, and a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on this earth; I was very disheartened to hear the Left Behind authors assert on one of Glenn Beck's special programs a couple of years ago that 1/3rd of the world's population would go in the rapture...that's over 2 BILLION people!!!
I disagree with that, and I was sad to hear that...Jesus said in Matthew 7:14 "...few there be that find it"...
I am not looking to be a martyr...I just know that the greatest of tribulations that were endured to get God's preserved Word into the hands of succeeding generations of Jews and Gentiles alike the world over...ended in martyrdom...brought about by a cooked up, brewed, persuasion of HATRED towards Jesus and His disciples.
We can disagree on the event of the rapture...but this movement seriously needs to entertain the very thought that the further away we as a nation move from the Laws of Nature and Nature's God, our discernment to spot poisonous, venomous snakes who work for satan himself suffers...they ALL appear as angels of light, and they ALL likewise say they are Christians...until you quote scripture to their face and point out their error...then you end up where Kent Hovind is, in Federal prison, for WINNING the argument; and achieving the label of "persuasive Christian Patriot".
I do not advocate a theocracy; I advocate Article 3 of the Northwest Ordinance - "religion, morality and knowledge being necessary for good government" - unfortunately - nobody wants to admit how FAR from the truth so-called Christian universities, churches, seminaries, political action committees have drifted...unto the outright love of money...THEY should be avoided...
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.(18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple
John E. Eleniewski
www.historicalbibletruths.com
www.monroebiblesociety.org
John E. Eleniewski
That is a great read, and much truth to be heard..but..
but as usual a great read still divides people, only this time it is about whether there is a rapture or not, how many raptures, who is sponsoring the raptures, who wrote the books on raptures...it goes on and on.
Once again even the great minds at DP can't see the forest because they are to busy bickering about what kind of trees there are.
Should I go into listing verse after verse where our Savior Jesus Christ explained away living by legalism's and the teachings of man? Your personal salvation and the salvation of others has as much to do with your belief in raptures as it does your belief in the tooth fairy.
Keep your eyes on the ball, in both your spiritual life and your life of seeking freedom and liberty for all.
Just my two cents.
We should NOT FOLLOW those who don't KNOW the truth...
...and this movement is FULL of them, and they help satan keep them blinded, and like FALSE religion, these souls will be damned to hell.
Our founders weren't so distracted with all the trivial matters as you see them...they read their Bibles, and had PROPER reverence for the Creator inthat they RESTRAINED themselves personally, and promoted the Gospel secondly.
This is where America has failed...by giving honor to those who do not DESERVE honor because they live a LIE...professing a salvation in Christ that they don't actually possess...they've NEVER been born again.
I am WARNING others of the dangers of casting in their lot with a mixed batch of theology...which is as dangerous and RIPE for total compromise and eventual deceit as is our current political system.
America needs a revival, not a revolution.
John E. Eleniewski
John E. Eleniewski
JOHN, Only the heart knows truth. I once knew a man
Freedom is not FREE!!
whom was a deacon in his church. He told me to my face that HE knew the bible. He knew what was right from wrong.
This man had a tendency to stutter and I made fun of him. The only thing is, he thought my having fun was against him. I told him that if he stuttered it was a LIE.
I told him that neither he nor any preacher, deacon or any other individual could tell me what the bible means to me. It can only be from the heart. NO Religious organization, Bible toting individaul, No government, NO PERSON can or has the right to push their beliefs on anyone else.
I personally think this type of debate is wrong in GODS eyes. This BS is nothing more than Satan. OOp's, Whom did I offend now? Should have listened to my father as each of you should. Never discuss your beliefs with other people for in their eyes you are DAMNED!
There was a time I had two business partners and one was a christian fundamentalist, one a morman bishop, and I was introduced as the heathen. To tell the truth I was raised Baptist. When things got bad the other two left me with $257,000 in IRS debt. I spent the next few years (10) paying investors back and trying to get them whole (and settling the IRS Debt). Where were my christians brothers then. Their religion was nothing more than organized BS. They wanted greed and in the end they will reap what they sow.
I personally forgave them. I did not have to tell anyone. I wished them no harm and hoped for the best for their family. God will save me through my indifference of organized religion and their followers. It is my belief, that beliefs are personal and NO ONE should interFEAR with anyone else.
This type of discussion takes away from Freedom. The church as a whole has screwed mankind throughout the centuries. Only an individual can define his faith. You notice I did not say God, Budda, Allah, the Great White Light, has screwed mankind. Anyone trying to decide for someone else is just wrong.
Freedom is not FREE!!
So, do you mean that people
So, do you mean that people who do not agree with your interpretation of end times prophecy are from Satan and are going to hell?
uhh ok..
"Our founders weren't so distracted with all the trivial matters as you see them..."
I pointed out that you had posted some great and truthful information...then I simply pointed out how, AS USUAL, good information still divides even the minds of DP users.
I wasn't detracting from your work, I was simply pointing out that people should focus on the lesson, not legalisms about raptures. Christ not once explained that you must believe one way or another about a so-called rapture to be saved.
Should I work with those who need Christ in their lives, or should I try to "save" those who have Christ in their lives but don't believe the same as I do about rapture?..not to hard to figure out.
I think you just didn't understand what I was saying. It isn't anything new believe me, either you get me or you don't.
Peace.
Doctrinal matters are not trivial...
There should be SOME agreement; there is a prophetic timeline in place I do believe...
We are kind to take a professing believer at his/her word that they are a believer...but, as Paul Washer teaches to his own ostracision from the Southern Baptist Convention, the biggest heresy in American Christianity today was the one started 50+ years ago whereas if someone "asks Jesus to come into their heart, He will".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2...
Our soil is PLAGUED with people who think just because they prayed a prayer ONCE in their life, they are SAVED - yet they DO NOT continue in His Word, they sit under dead preachers, preaching a dead message, from dead pulpits.
We are allowed to inspect fruit, MATURE Christians should CHALLENGE other believers to see if they can handle MEAT, or need MILK, or - even of they know enough Gospel to stand on their own two feet.
We do this to discern who should be in positions of influence and leadership...and because Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, and Bill Hybels have such MASSIVE followings...we should suspect they are deliberately HIDING or suppressing the truth from their congregations much like the government used public schools to hide real civics and unadulterated American History from the offspring of the taxpayer.
The point of the thread is not to endorse the pre-trib rapture "viewpoint"; but rather to further encourage discerning believers to FLEE from wasting their time, talent, and treasure from fighting for causes less than honest.
I understand we can "agree to disagree" and still be believers...but at some point we will BOTH have our motives directed by the prophetic timeline we espouse...this needs to be discussed in the context of presumed leaders in the patriot movement are IGNORANT of God's Word, willing to allow false prophets to lead their respective flocks of followers AWAY from the truth(the WHOLE counsel of God), and are truly in it for the MONEY and not MY FREEDOM - or Kent Hovind's freedom either!
John E. Eleniewski
www.monroebiblesociety.org
John E. Eleniewski
We can certainly agree on this point..
"Our soil is PLAGUED with people who think just because they prayed a prayer ONCE in their life, they are SAVED - yet they DO NOT continue in His Word, they sit under dead preachers, preaching a dead message, from dead pulpits."
The fact is that no matter who you are, what church you attend, how you were brought up, or what prayer you said.....if you personally can not take the time to read God's Word then you are probably doomed. One can not take the teachings of any man/woman/preacher in place of the actual Word of God. That shows lazyness beyond compare...to claim to be a follower of the one true God but yet you can't take the time to study, pray, and apply God's teachings in your life.....not a real strong follower I would say.
AMEN!
John E. Eleniewski
This is where I am currently puting my time, talent, and treasure to HELP the movement ... promoting TRUTH ... as a fallen SINNER like everyone else!
www.monroebiblesociety.org
John E. Eleniewski
Matthew 13:33
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
It says a "WOMAN" - would that be Jezebel?
Consider the disciple asking Jesus, "are there FEW that be saved?" - the answer was YES - a MICRON - "few there be that find it";
Consider the parable of the mustard seed, a MICRON plants a church; and it becomes the BIGGEST tree in the garden - and ALL the birds of the air come and make their nests in it's branches!
The mustard seed is the Kingdom of God, the tree is "Christendom", which is now divided into the THREE MEASURES of meal where Jezebel hid her leaven(false doctrine and sin) - the three MAJOR branches of Christendom is Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy(Russian and Greek), and Protestantism ...
The real Baptists are not part of these denominations! The church od Jesus Christ is made up of ONLY born again believers(not ONLY Baptists - although we have the BLOODIEST heritage)...the deception is EVERYWHERE, and it is likewise peppered throughout ALL political movements and parties...and there is NO agreement...and God is LAUGHING at them who are trying to rid this world of His presence by in the form of His preserved Word, and His remnant of believers...
Meanwhile, Christ's church is still preaching the Gospel unto EVERY Creature...and we will continue to do so even if we have a ONE WORLD currency, a North American Union, or we get rounded up and put into FEMA camps...
AMEN!
John E. Eleniewski
John E. Eleniewski
pertaining to the
pertaining to the rapture.... this is what I believe.. the tribulation last 42 months.. that is 3 1/2 years.. there are 2 raptures.. the first occurs at about 2 1/2 years in the the tribulation period.. that rapture occurs for all living saints on the earth just befoire Gods wrath hits the earth.. the second rature occurs for all those who died and are believers in Jesus before the Tribulation begain.. that rapture occurs just before Jesus returns as the king of kings and just before the battle of armegedon.
there is NO pretribualtion rapture..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Make sure to
list the scriptures. We have to go by the scriptures.
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www.youtube.com/ronpaultunes
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all you have to do is read
all you have to do is read the book of revelation..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
We must look at all Bible scriptures
Precept upon precept and line upon line. To say you only have to look at one book is very dangerous.
Look at Matthew, Daniel, Proverbs, Revelation, etc.
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www.youtube.com/ronpaultunes
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I would also add to look
I would also add to look 'word for word'.
The word "rapture", does not appear in the manuscipts nor will you find it in a, Strongs concordance. I believe it does appear in some of the newer, so-called Bibles and books of men.
How-ever, Amos 5, does state, "I am against those that teach my children to fly away". As a Christian, I can stand in the middle of the tribulation and even hell fire will not harm me, (this brings to thought a story of three brothers). To think that God cannot protect his own, even if they stand in the middle of it all, is foolishness.