States Must Force 17th Amendment Showdown (article) [UPDATE]
Check out this 2005 article by Devvy Kidd titled "States Must Force 17th Amendment Showdown": http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42711
It argues that the 17th amendment was never properly ratified, and thus is invalid. Devvy calls on state legislatures to force a legal battle over the issue by appointing two senators and sending them to D.C. to be seated. Of course, there will already be two popularly elected senators present, so the issue will then be thrust into the national spotlight (and hopefully a court room) where the evidence can be presented. If the legislature were to win and prove that the 17th amendment was fraudulently ratified, the Senate would once again be placed under the control of the state legislatures.
A legislature attempting this is sure to strike fear into the heart of Washington D.C. During this era when the state sovereignty movement is growing, now seems like the perfect time to go for it. I say we start e-mailing the legislatures of states that have already passed a sovereignty resolution (and if it only passed one chamber of the legislature, just e-mail that chamber): http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/02/23/state-soverei...
Here's a bunch of the e-mail addresses: http://reformedapologian.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html
The question is, would any legislature be brave enough to do this?
UPDATE (05/19/2009): Let's see if we can get the Judge to talk about this on tomorrow's Freedom Watch: http://freedomwatch.uservoice.com/pages/18725-freedom-watch-...
Njon, Did you see this
Njon,
Did you see this thread from a few weeks ago? http://www.dailypaul.com/node/91347
Visit the meetup link below. I have a lot of information in the Files section.
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Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
Just read your post Sam....
I am very interested...this may be the way! I'm going to research this during the week. I'm not clear on how establishing a Continental Congress would validate the 17th. It is assumed already that the 17th is legitimate right or wrong.......
Well there are three views
Well there are three views regarding the legitimacy of the amendment. The first is that the amendment is legal and lawful because the requisite number of states ratified it. The second is the angle that Ms. Kidd is coming from. And, the third can be read here (I highly recommend taking the time to read this essay): http://files.meetup.com/1446017/The%2017th%20Amendment%20-%2...
The point I was making was that if the people felt that the amendment was never truly law, the act of calling a Convention would legitimize it.
The ramifications of approaching this from the "never was a law" angle is all of the laws and treaties signed and appointments confirmed by the Senate would be null going all the way back to when the last state legislature appointed Senator was elected directly by the people - I guess around 1917-19.
Think of how the public would view this. It would terrify many. Social Security? The Supreme Court and it's decisions? Civil Rights? The Presidents?
Approaching from the the angle of "it isn't even law" will most likely result in our defeat. The best way to approach it, in my opinion, is by contacting all the state legislatures and identifying which members are on board. Then, un-seat the non-compliant state reps and replace them with ourselves.
Once this is done and we know we have a solid 2/3 of the States on board, the States would then apply for an Article V convention. This would be very tricky, though. The applications would need to be nearly identical and specific as to the purpose of the convention. However, the States would also have to be very careful so as not to appear to have entered into an agreement or compact with each other without the consent of Congress, as this would violate Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3; and, Congress would surely decline.
If there was ever a time when the people were ripe for this, it is now! This can be done!
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Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
I don't think I saw that,
I don't think I saw that, no. Thanks for pointing it out.
Pick your battles.
This is never going to happen. I agree that the 17th Amendment helped abolish States Rights, but you are never going to convince America to repeal the 17th. It would be viewed and demonized as an attack on "Democracy".
Ron Paul has said a much, and even more recently has referred to "attacks on our democracy", when making the argument that America is not very "democratic" in an effort to get the left thinking.
Woodrow Wilson and Col.House sure did a number on us. At least Wilson realized he f'd up.
One of the ways the establishment kicks our butts is by drawing us into losing battles, just like what happened to Ron Paul on the Morning Joe a few days ago at the very end. They asked him a question timed to make him rush his answer, knowing he would say something really fast that they could use against him later that day, and they did, regarding "abolishing whole departments". Mica baited him good. I was livid.
I would say let's concentrate our efforts on the FED, and on getting good candidates elected, and then the 16th Amendment would naturally follow. "IF" we are ever successful in repealing the 16th, then we can say "See what else Wilson did that was messed up?"
Without addressing the 17th
Without addressing the 17th Amendment, we don't stand a chance in hell of ending the Fed. As Durbin has pointed out, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30485866#30485866 , the Bank owns the Senate.
This is the most important issue that must be addressed, if there is any chance of fixing the current system and restoring Life, Liberty and Property.
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Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
The point about this is not
The point about this is not to get the amendment repealed, but to test if it was even legitimately ratified to begin with. If it wasn't, it's simply invalid.
But how do you get to that point...
government isn''t just going to volunteer.....there has to be some type of mechanism to MAKE it happen.....
Like the article says, a
Like the article says, a state legislature needs to appoint two senators (as if the 17th amendment didn't even exist) and send them to Washington D.C., thus creating a conflict and forcing a public legal battle.
What Ms. Kidd appears to
What Ms. Kidd appears to have overlooked, though, is the Doctrine of Laches. The doctrine essentially means that if you have abandoned a Right, you have lost it. The SCOUS would most certainly invoke this.
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Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
But even if the legislature
But even if the legislature lost the case at trial, the evidence presented would be put in the public eye for all the nation to see. And if enough people think they've been tricked on this issue, who knows what will happen?
I agree with you. It would
I agree with you. It would force the issue out in the open. But, it will be education of the public and people who are willing to tackle this issue by taking over the seats of their state legislatures, that will really get this done.
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Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
You are well tuned, Keldor....
and I agree with your post. My pet peeve is the Commerce Act and the 17th. I could be wrong but, it seems to me that if we were able to push for a "Continental Congress," that would make a lot of these issues go away.I know that it is reaching for a "far limb" but, reaching (as close as we are) for the federal reserve was just as impossible not long ago...............yes?
Continental Congress v. Constitutional Convention
A Continental Congress and a Constitutional Convention are two different things. The We the People Foundation's Continental Congress 2009 does not have the force of law; it is essentially a strategic planning event. A Constitutional Convention is an article V assembly that has the power to alter the Constitution, and that's something we do NOT want to try in the current political climate.
Constitutional Convention is the answer
A Constitutional Convention is THE MEANS by which the states can reign in the federal government. That's why it was placed in Article V by the Founders. It is a STATE LEGISLATURE driven process.
Use Article V or lose it . . . and your way of life in the process!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NationalConstitutionalConventi...
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater
Strategic planning event...exactly...
End the Fed had no force of law either but, may soon have..........I am not advocating (in THIS political environment) a Constitutional Convention.........
I am looking for a "one shot kills all" solution....I'm old already, and I may be able to see the FED ended but, not much else...going to slow...I worry for my children and grandchildren and I hate to see them left with the mess that my forefathers and my generation have ALLOWED to happen.
As much as I would like a
As much as I would like a singular big solution, I don't think it's going to happen. We have to win back the republic from the state and local level, and that means getting legislators, county commissioners, sheriffs, etc. on our side state by state. But the tide seems to be moving now with the state sovereignty movement. Hopefully it will continue to grow, and perhaps we will soon see more and more outright nullification of federal laws. The next few years are going to be critical.
wow...
that really is "pulling a thread" there...
It can be done, Wild Man...
check this out...http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/default.htm#latestneA
"Continental Congress" would so spook the "men behind the curtain" that they will start scattering like cockroaches....