Post here if you've ever changed a liberal mind

How to change a liberals mind:

1. Bash corporate welfare and companies that lobby for an unfair advantage over other companies (a way to start them on free market economics)

2. Bash the interventionist foreign policy (something they'll agree with)

3. Discuss social liberty as related to gay marraige, cannabis, hemp, political engagement etc.

I have converted many big-gov't leftists just by relating to them on these issues.

I had about given up after trying all sorts of different strategies for talking to liberals and neo-cons. It seems though that every example of a conversion is a family member or close friend, so you were able to convince them with long-term discussion. My small working class family puts little thought into politics (my dad hasn't voted since he got back from Vietnam), and I've given up on talking to them. I'd like to get better at talking to people who I may not be around for years.

So what angle of discussion have you guys successfully used? Personally, I've discovered that talks about specific issues and current events are too long and complicating because it's the underlying fundamentals that are important. So, lately I try to establish our right to be free from force and fraud (thanks Philosophy of Liberty) and from there lead people to see how taxes, gun control, and business regulations are force. This makes things simpler because either a person agrees that we have these rights or they don't, and from there it's just sorting things out. However, I don't talk to many people about politics anymore, so I can't speak well to the results.

you have to realize that a lot of people became politically active during bush/cheney's tenure. it's not so much young liberals are pro-democrat so much as they are anti-republican. that's why it's so important to discuss the issues, not the politicians.

for example when talking economic policy, do not use obama's name in a sentence, use "geithner." that allows the listener to hear what is being said, before rejecting the matter based on loyalty to the party.

democrats listen to you more when they think you could be a fellow democrat. so keep them guessing. there's no point in rubbing it in their noses.

Is the most liberal of liberal, but she is coming around. I have a few other friends that are starting to see the light as well.

What is most amazing is that it has absolutely nothing to do with anything I say. It has to do with the fact that I've been talking about Dr. Ron Paul constantly for about 9 months now AND EVERYTHING HE SAID IS COMING TRUE! It amazing how much credibility you have, when everything you talk about literally starts to unfold before our eyes.

The only way to do it is to convince them that the government has been incredibly corrupt for a long, long, time and therefor should not be given omnipotence. The "taxation is theft" word games will not do it. Conspiracy theories can work well here if the liberal has an open mind.

Honestly I have had many failures with liberals besides my parents, but they were truthers and christians so that was just too easy. I rarely take the conspiracy route because libs are pro-establishment(even more so than republicans) and think you are crazy unless they are legit Naderites or something.

What about changing (faux) conservatives' minds toward liberty as well?

Both camps are just two sides of the same statist coin --- NEITHER is preferable to the other!

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My liberty-minded home base of thought:

www.ponderthis.net

It's easy to get people to be libertarians politically, even if they're authoritarians in other areas of life. For example, you can be an authoritarian parent, or prefer an Authoritarian God, and still have excellent reason not to want voters to make your choices for you.

But for liberals, it's Milton Friedman and others like him that take the logical arguments to the logical conclusion: freedom works better than central planning.

Most liberals know in their hearts that government is cruel and that charity can't be mandated. They know that generosity is worth less at gunpoint. It's just a matter of asking them the right questions.

IMissLiberty

I was a huckabee supporter (blush), until the whole "not going to show negative campaign ads, by the way here's the add we're not going to show" thing happened. The only thing keeping me from Dr Paul was that I had bought the Fox News "war is good" mentality.

Basically when I realized that without a fiat currency the war in Iraq would not even be possible, I realized the power the Fed had over us, I realized how evil the system was, and I began reading everything Dr. Paul and other liberty minded poeple had to put out there.

Neo-cons and "liberals" have similiar problems, there have basically been 2 paradigms manufactued by the media.

The liberal paradigm is concerned with civil liberties and sees anything related to money as evil. This is why they are typically quick to be more permissive of "deviant" behavior, but also they have little problem with taxing, regulating and redistributing wealth. Liberals are slow to accept objective standards of truth, because they identify part of thier freedom as the freedom to be able to personally decide what is right, wrong, real, or imagined. IMHO Liberals are easier to convert because much of the time they think for themselves, therefore if you can get them to understand real objective truths like "gold standards" etc, they will quickly be able to associate the attacks on personal liberty that they are fighting with the motivation that drives thier enemy (the state) through the actions of the Fed etc. You can show them that money is in fact the root of all kinds of evil and that by containing money with a real standard (not a politcal one), we will all be more free because of it.

The neo-con paradigm is concerned with a ideal of an America that can do no wrong. Lazy religious people typically fall into this category so they are able to be manipulated by incorrectly using religion ("God bless America, In God we Trust, etc). This group will be more willing to take away civil liberties, especially those civil liberties from people who they see as a threat to the "American" way of life. The American way of life has been defined to them as driving an SUV, living in a 2500 sq ft home, and buying junk and wal-mart. Neo-cons are quick to accept objective standards of truth from anyone waving a flag because they don't want to think for themselves, they just want to gang up on a bad guy (without having to figure out for themselves who is the bad guy). You can't convert neo-con's as easily because if you suggest that our government is evil, or that our soldiers have died in vain, they mentally shut down. And they have been well trained to shut down and label you as a kook if you say the words "Fed", "Inflation", "fiat", and/or "free trade agreement".

If you combine these two paradigms you have shows like "Hannity and Colmes" where the neo-con argues that America can do no wrong, and the liberal argues in defense of civil liberties, and the issue of the money is completely ignored to the bliss and satisfaction of those who would have it all to be this way in the first place. It creates and endless debate over secondary issues whose resolution will go nowhere to either bolster America's reputation or protect our civil liberties.

"I'm saying more of us need to spend time on childrens media that stresses inalienable individual rights."

Very interesting point Outershell. I agree.

~
some poor little libsters need rescuin'...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXSocE_M1G4

for Operation Sweet and Sour ...

Politico: Some on Left Souring on Obamah
www.dailypaul.com/node/93391

The bolt heaads were stripped & the threads too far rusted fast to get inside the heads ..So I could not change the oil or grease them.. They no longer were servicable, sorry..
you-no

my best friend was liberal, but after i conversed w/ im over a period of time, he changed his mind and wrote in ron paul for president.
my family(dad, step mom, real mom, 5 sisters. 1 brother)were converted. though my brother, with the urging of his new wife, voted for mcain, because of the lesser of two evils sophism. youngest sister voted for obama, no doubt due to her liberal friends pressure and a desire for acceptance. my granpa was almost converted( a huge fan of barry goldwater)but he was stuck on the idea that the terrorists will come here if we leave, though he admits that ron paul is the only true "conservative".

I was convincing all my democrat/obama supporting friends that he was the wrong choice and his true policies were no different from Bush or McCain during the Ron Paul campaign. They still voted for Obama because they were going with the "lesser of the 2 evils" style vote. But now they really regret their decisions and have come around as they're seeing Obama's policies to be one and the same with Bush. One of friends thought that it was large corporations that were the problem in this country and causing the huge difference in living standards but came around to the idea that the government is the true culprit.

I live in Jamaica, Queens, New York city however. All my friends are minorities that grew up hating authority(NYPD)- and so I think that played a big role in changing their minds. Once they understood the initial problem with taxation(it is theft plain and simple)- it was simple for them to stand for the cause of liberty. I think that's the one audience that we really need to reach out to are minorities especially in downtrodden urban areas. Right now most support democrats like Obama since they're promised all sorts of benefits, and since Bush pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the Republican party's reputation. But once they understand that the problems they're facing is BECAUSE of the government- and that the government solutions only make things worse- it is very easy to convert them to the side of freedom.

I often bring about the point that the government operates the same way as the Mafia. The mafia asks you to pay them protection mone so that other group's won't hurt them- but if you refuse your windows and possibly legs are broken. The government tells you to pay them protection(NYPD, Fire department) and if you don't- you're sent to rape rooms(That is what Prison is).

and repeat visual demonstrations about the difference between coin, currency, and credit.

She figured it out after that, but then went insane.

Good idea about teaching kids, though.

minds are wielded shut, which makes them very difficult to change I thought I was making some headway with my very best friend. But then along came Obama , the Messiah and you can guess the rest.

and the Daily Paul is a shining example of it. Many on here fight like cats and dogs on topics but they know in the end they had the freedom to express. I come here because of the different opinions, it helps me test my own beliefs. You are correct that we need to get Ron Paul message out far and wide. The young who are being programmed will have a rude awakening when they find themselves supporting the same corruption only different faces. Good luck to all.