We are destroying our own movement because many are closed minded and do not think before they act.

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I have to say I am very frustrated and in some cases angry about how closed minded many in this movement are. If we do not change our ways we will isolate anyone that might just be waking up or are receptive to our message. If you want people to care about what you have to say you at least need to care about what they have to say. Being combative will get you nowhere and only turn people off to anything you have to say.

Think about this for 2 minutes : How long did it take you to wake up? Do you think the people that run our Government put this plan in place in a day, a year, 10 years? NO, they have had over 100 years to do this and how did they succeed? Because they were smarter than us in thier approach. We can not try to goto the damn moon on a bicycle, This will take time and work and dedication just as the people that have taken our freedoms away have done.

Many constantly ATTACK without any warranted measure of information about the person or people they are encountering and trying to educate. Attacking them because of one or 2 actions they have no clue about or what the truth is. Ie: The thread about Governor Sanford. I don't know for a fact he is a shill and to make comments such as, well if he doesn't know about the Bilderberg group he should. WTF, Really? That is a great answer and warrants the action of calling someone a shill for the NWO?

Cindy Sheehan : We had her on revolutionbroadcasting this morning and asked people to submit questions to her and guess what we got?99% BASHING HER SAYING THINGS LIKE SHE IS A SOCIALIST BITCH, SHE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN FREEDOM ONLY SOCIALISM. ETC.....ETC.....ETC.... surer that is going to make her want to emulate us isn't it?

Look folks this is absolutely the wrong way to approach anyone no matter how you look at it.

WE CAN NEVER FORCE OUR GOOD WILL ON ANYONE WITH FORCE, WE MUST SET GOOD EXAMPLES AND HOPE PEOPLE WISH TO EMULATE US. Ron Paul

Here are just a few examples of why are failing and our continuing to fail and we must change our mindset if we are to win the battles we need to win to change and fix this country.

I am going to use the words of Ron Paul to try and justify my comments on what I believe is holding us back and if I offend anyone; well, sorry but not that sorry.

Many here are very new to politics and have very little background or understanding of how things actually work in any political party including so called 3rd parties. I do not like the name 3rd party sorry. The key to success in aything is to accomplish the goal together as a team. We are always stronger in numbers!

If we do not diagnose the problem and understand how we got here in the first place we will never solve the problems we have :
Ron Paul

#1 : Many if not most people even on this forum would rather fight with each other about nonsense that means and will accomplish nothing rather than use compasion and reasoning to debate their point so the issue at hand is actually understood by the parties involved.

#2 : How can we defend or protect something if we do not have the absolute understanding of what we are defending or protecting?

Many if not most lack understanding of the constitution and what rights we are fighting to protect and the rights that are actually granted rather than rights we naturally have: Example : The 2nd amendment DOES NOT grant us the right to keep and bear arms. That is right It does not grant us any right at all. I would explain it but I would rather people start educating themselves on facts rather than waiting for someone else to do it for them. There is nothing wrong with asking for help if you need it but don't always take the easy way out. Here is the 2nd amendment please think about what I just said. :

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I encourage all of you to read the bill of rights and tell me what amendments grant you rights. If you are to protect it you must first understand what is in it.

#3 : Most people are lazy and would rather have someone else do the job for them rather than getting involved and helping get the job done. If you lose your job do you wait for someone else to find you a new job or do you get off your ass and go find a job to support yourself and/or your family? If you lose your wallet do you wait and hope for someone else to find it or do you go and look for it yourself? The list goes on and on.

#4 : Some call themselves patriots in this revolution and present themselves as such although most of thier so called patriotism is based on bashing and attacking other patriots and/or making sure when someone makes a mistake that the whole world knows about it rather than educating the fellow patriot that was mistaken and help them understand where their mistake was as to not make the same mistake again! Ironic isn't it? John Adams would have been proud, NOT! Don't get me wrong; some people in this revolution do not learn and actually deserve this type of treatment but only after the above has been attempted first.

#5 : Some so called patriots were actually happy at the fact that there were short comings in the delegate process and rattled the roof tops by saying SEE I TOLD YOU SO! Rather than actually getting involved and growing our numbers to have an impact in the GOP. Happy that we failed, yes that is a true patriot folks!

#6 : Some judge people by the length of time they have been in this revolution rather than by what they have to contribute to it, which by the way is measured by the length of time they have been a member of daily paul or ron paul forums. That is in fact a great scientific way to judge ones dedication to our cause isn't it?

#7 : Many are quick to judge when ever a new person comes along and says something we know is just not true. Instead of using compasion and reason to educate these people on the facts and as to why these are bad things or just not true they would rather use the TROLL card without finding out if this person is using TROLL activity or is just uneducated. This type of action is not helping us.

My point is this; You may not like the people you are or have to work with and they may not like you and that is ok but wouldn't it be much more constructive if we worked together instead of arguing with each other actually got the job done and then worried about the rest later? We don't have to agree with each other, hell we don't even have to like each other but we do need to find some way to work together. Do we not understand that unless we start working together and start getting important things actually done we will go nowhere and fall deeper into this blackhole of an almost fallen country we live in?

If you make the wrong diagnosis you change the treatment or eventually you kill the patient. : Ron Paul

www.retakecongress.com

www.revolutionbroadcasting.com

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Teamwork, cooperation & education

Teamwork, cooperation & education are the factors that will grow this movement. Thanks for reminding me of the basics.

*****The Federal Reserve is neither.*****

"truth and clarity"

Yes, we all seek it. That's why it's offensive to many of us that the messenger is not being truthful about who he really is. When that is clear, then the motives for his being here will be evident. You won't like what you learn. But many will keep the blinders on, and that's cool. It's a good life lesson.

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

I entirely agree with your post; the infighting

and divisiveness are common to all movements, but I believe most of us were drawn to RP's ideas because we saw truth and clarity. We have sound principles, not just emotional attachments and biases. These are our strengths, and as a minority movement, if we don't lead with our strengths we have no chance to attract the larger public.

Ron Paul is not a leader only because of his consistent values; he has gained tremendous admiration, even from many who differ with some of his ideas, because he speaks always with rational, kind, respectful honesty that people hear is absolutely from the heart and soul of the man.

He is an example we should all strive to be more like, not just in ideas but in demeanor and words. It makes all the difference.

So true!

So true!

Please consider the content

that is what is important...can we not discuss/consider the content of the post instead of attacking the messenger? I am sick of this attacking our own people and personalities instead of addressing issues .. this looks more like Jerry Springer show or National Enquirer lately than a focused revolution/activist community! This is what the poster is trying to bravely point out! Please discuss the content and lets move forward!
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

That's nonsense!

And I won't even consider discussing it any further!

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

The Patriot, I Feel Your Pain

I have tried time and again to raise the general tenor of discussion on this forum. Since I first came to DailyPaul I have appreciated the fact that we this vehicle to post our views and respond to others of similar interests; but I, too, have been disheartened to see too many people attacked and treated with disrespect.

I have attributed much of this to the overzealous promotion of pet beliefs and/or conspiracy theories.

I have never seen the benefit in attacking people who could just possibly turn out to be valuable allies. But to do so based on their agreement with some tangential issue is counterproductive to the point of being idiotic.

When I have expressed similar sentiments in other posts, I have been accused of being against free speech. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because I condemn drunk driving does NOT mean that I support prohibition.

When I posted the reasons I wouldn't invite a friend to this website to learn about Ron Paul or OUR campaign for liberty, it was not to suggest that any of you did not have the right to say the things you do.
But it was my (admittedly somewhat undiplomatic) plea for all of us to think about the impact of what we are saying on each other and the image that we are creating for our movement.

If common sense is not enough to tell us what to say and how to say it, maybe we should remember a lesson we learned from our mothers; "If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything."

******************************
Natural Law and Natural Rights

http://jim.com/rights.html

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."

AMEN

Brother!

Wow, good thread! Don't know what all the attacking of this

person is all about unless some people just can't handle constructive criticism!

I like what you said and I believe from what I have experienced here, is true!

I will take what you are saying into consideration when I post my next thread or comment!

Thank you, the patriot, whoever you are!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

He's got a long history here.

Talk to Laurie. She's got it all memorized.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Steve Parent said....

"We don't have to agree with each other, hell we don't even have to like each other but we do need to find some way to work together."

Look at the links posted by SSgT_AF below, a 3rd grader can see that ThePatriot & Steve Parent (SGP) are one in the same. How do you expect us to want to work together when you so blatantly try to scam people and lie about who you are?

Some of the folks here are gullible and still think it's OK because they learned something about Roberts Rules. When you're dishonest about who you are, then your motives fall into question. Yours have always been about financial profit.

Folks here just need to be careful about who they're dealing with.

'Cause there's a monster on the loose

I agree...I am very sad lately

I see so much in-fighting and lack of focus for common cause here lately...I am very saddened by this because I love so many here. I feel we have much to gain to reaching out to the anti war /disenfranchised left as we do the neocon right...I do not see people as "parties" but try to approach with common principles that are meaningful to me. The DP community needs to refocus and find /discuss common grounds and stop attacking each other...I am so very sad to see that when it happens...we CAN rise above it if we admit it and commit to focus on agreements and understanding, respect and love.
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

We need a presidential candidate to support.

This is a political movement. We all know Ron Paul probably will not run again. He's a man of his word.

We need a candidate. For six months we have squabbled and factionalized because we aren't going anywhere on a political level. There's no clear path. Having this-or-that theory about how to "take over" the system isn't forward movement.

Imagine what a president from our movement could do in HIS "first 100 days". Think of the possibilities. That is what brought us all together originally.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

While you are waiting for a Presidential Candidate

While you are waiting for a Presidential race, why not support Dr. Paul's son, Rand Paul?

I agree

Libertarians, and that's what most of us are philosophically, agree with the left on social issues, and the right on economic issues. That means we have to approach everyone as a potential ally on at least half of the issues.

Cindy Sheehan has a lot of spunk to stand up to George Bush and Nancy Pelosi. Even if we don't agree with her on every issue, there is a lot of common ground and she deserves our respect.

Bingo.

Productive conversations tend to proceed from common ground.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

Good post.

Good post.

I think the movement

is fine, sure there is disagreement, thank God there is. That is how we learn and grow. This site is not for the faint of heart.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

Ever wonder if maybe some of

Ever wonder if maybe some of the dp'ers have been paid to argue and try to run people off?

You really think they pay

You really think they pay people to come on a forum and disagree with people. I keep getting accused of getting paid because I don't agree with the truthers. To me, thats whats hurting this movement. The fringe groups that keep associating themselves with Ron Paul. If Ron Paul believes 9/11 was an inside job, then let him say it, otherwise go find another forum to rant about thermite on and quit trying to put words into Ron Pauls mouth saying stuff like, I think Ron Paul knows it was an inside job, he just can't say. Well, until he does, quit latching on to his movement. He's a big boy, he can say what he thinks, he doesn't need someone who watched a youtube video telling the world what he thinks. As of late, this site has so many off topics. Hating gays because the religious zelots think god says to hate them, jew bashing around every corner. 9/11 and all the secret plots that go along with that whole group of people. What does any of that have to do liberty, reducing the government, etc, etc.

------------------
Banned for not agreeing with the truthers. Welcome to the DailyPrisonPlanetPaul

I Have to Agree

For a very Long time now, I will not refer potential new Ron Paul supporters to this site for information. As it is an embarrassment.
JMHO

Yes

I have about wondered that.

Steve Parent

You really must have a screwed up complex to come back here and post the same thread under a different name. You egomaniac. How disturbed can one get?

If anyone wants to get the low down on the SGP character look no further than these.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/46533
And look at his past
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/56789#comment-579412
Now look at his signatures in his posts
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/56789#comment-580292

This guy was banned for a reason.
Don't get fooled by his clone nor himself.
We are above this troll.

Steve Parent has nothing to

Steve Parent has nothing to do with this post or revolutionbroadcasting other than he was the original founder of the radio network. I do enjoy the straw man tactics though. I have now seen 5 differenet names comment in this post about Steve Parent who has nothing to do with any of this. Not one of you/them have made a comment as to the content and context of this post. Looks like sock puppets to me.

What same thread are you talking about?

www.retakecongress.com

www.revolutionbroadcasting.com

www.randpaulmoneybomb.com

Hi Steve!

Welcome back!

How's Laurie?

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

LMFAO!

I love it when you refer to yourself in the third person.

You truly are a sad, deranged person.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

I think I see Toto/ElBuggo pulling on your sham you fraud.

I Don't See Steve in That Light.....

I believe when Steve came on board a couple of years ago, about the time I did, he was providing this Forum with valuable information of which very few DP'ers knew anything about. I'm speaking of course about the Delegate Process and Robert's Rules of Order. At the time, I believe, he provided us with invaluable information which may have not been provided otherwise. So, in that sense, I believe we owe him a sense of gratitude. Things began to breakdown when it was assumed through various allegations flying around that SP was in this for himself by trying to financially capitalize off of this Forum. Well, even if this were the case, he wasn't the first nor would he have been the last to engage in potential financial capitalization on this Forum. If you are making allegations about one engaging in such behavior, rightfully, everyone and anyone involved should be mentioned. No?

Sure

And I agree with you about Steve.

No one, not even Ron Paul motivated me to become a Republican more than Steve.

The attacks on Steve were made by those who traded Ron Paul for a concert ticket.

WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
.' ( ) '.
) /)' '( )
',_( ';-;'\_,'
|-|
(")

We are mutts, we are American

Regarding the last paragraph of this post:

"........wouldn't it be much more constructive if we worked together instead of arguing with each other actually got the job done.......?"

I agree and was thinking the same thing. However, I feel that, one of the things to do in order to diagnosis this problem, is that we need to look at how things were and what held us together and what has changed.

One of the greatest factors that I recognize, is that we are composed of the greatest politically diverse bunch of people to ever come together. It's amazing to see that we actually got along as far as we have. We are the ONLY group that actually embodies people from the entire political spectrum.

The thing was, in the past, we had a common focal point or core direction that held us together, i.e. RP and the elections. At that time, most of us attempted to keep the things that divide us, more or less, out of the issue.

Thus, if we want the group and / or movement to continue to move forward, we must once again find our common unity in just a few vital issues that embody the ideas of most of us and attempt to stay focused on acheving those goals.

Once we have unity, we have direction, power, goals and acheievement.

I think in some sense, we are all newbies.

There is new stuff that we need to learn. I count myself as lucky in that I got a pretty good reception when I joined a little over a year ago.

However, its strange that when someone makes an ill-informed remark, there is a tendency to pounce on that person and say something like: "Ohhh screw you Mr 1 week, 3 days."

That doesn't help. If anything, we need to make allowances for the newbies. If the noobs on Daily Paul make some errors, just think how bad the average person in the street is!

For example, does Ron Paul go on Glenn Beck and say "F*** you Glenn. You neo-con shill. You're a tool, a puppet, a Judas Goat!"

He might be thinking it - but he doesn't say it ;-)

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.